Valpo vs. UCF (Round 2) @ UCF Tournament 1:30 PM 12/22 Game Thread

[mvandersee]

1:30 tipoff this afternoon over on ESPN3, it will be Keith Carter's first game against a D1 opponent for Valpo. UCF is coming in on a 4 game win streak, including a 86-58 win last night over Rio Grande, so it will be a quick turnaround for both teams.

[talksalot]

Yeh, but... look at the schools included in that 4-game win streak.  One nice win against Miami... that's all folks!

12-03     at    Florida Atlantic     2-9 (0-0)    297     64-75    L
  12-07         Stetson     2-10 (0-0)    350     77-58    W
  12-11         Howard     1-12 (1-1)    342     79-64    W
  12-17         Jacksonville     1-7 (0-0)    340     104-64    W

that's 3 of the bottom 11 teams in the country with a combined 4-29, and if you throw in the FAU game, 6-38.  I'm not sure the knights will win any games in their conference.... Valpo by 10.

[wh]

With the addition of KC, I think we simply have too many weapons at too many positions.  Plus, we played on their court and shot extremely well from the perimeter less than 24 hours ago.  We should feel right "at home" from the opening tip.

VU 81 UCF 74

[78crusader]

Getting blown out, 38-20. Carter: 11 minutes, 1 point, 0-5 FGA.

Paul

[atkins]

Yikes!   Aside from Yeo and Vashil, they look like a tired high school team today.  Might actually lose to a good high school  team.  The Freshmen should just finish it out.

Give Carter a couple of games to get in shape, and he'll become the top guy.  He's more talented than anyone Valpo has.  Had he stayed at SLU, he'd be their top player.   

[Smj]

Sorry - got to keep my expectations grounded on Carter...   

As for this game We looked horrible in the first half.  (Not much better to start the second half)

[FWalum]

Here in Orlando and was going to the game but a nieces Christmas production ran way long. I would have had to miss the family lunch so the game was put on the back burner. Turned on the last 46 seconds of the first half and am glad I decided to stay with the family.

[Smj]

Painful to watch....

[truth219]

Saying Carter is the best player on our team is a little ridiculous at this point.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[78crusader]

75-43 right now...worst performance in many years...

Paul

[Valpofan00]

Okay Carter will be the best player on the team. Maybe hes not right now but he will be, He is basically a freshman who hasn't played in over a year. He has barely any experience with 6 games? Give him time. HE NEEDS PATIENCE! I didn't see you guys complaining when he had a 8 point 5 ast 3 reb game last night. Everyone has bad games.

[valpotx]

I have to say that was the worst performance by our men's team I have ever seen in my 14-15 years of following Valpo.  At least when we lost by this amount in the past, it was against a ranked team in the top 10, not to UCF.  Against Evansville, we made it close towards the end, but this was just painful to watch all game.  The guys basically just shrugged their shoulders, and showed absolutely no passion to reverse course.  Stupid fouls beyond the 3-pt line, I counted 7 of them, 3 by Carter.  Quick triggers in the shot clock in 3 straight possessions in the first half when it was still somewhat close, and all 3 basically hit the backboard, no rim.  I was not impressed with Carter at all, so hopefully it gets better for him.  He was jumping way too often before he knew where he was throwing it, which I will call Kenney-itis.  Hopefully it is a mild case of it, and goes away quickly.  Absolute sh!t performance from the guys, never been more ticked after watching us play.  Seems to be a common thread for me this year with this team, so maybe I should just stop watching for awhile .

[valpopal]

Every year I wonder when the team will hit its low point of the season. I am hoping (pretty certain) this game was it. The "dreadful game" out of nowhere happens each season, and I can't see the team playing worse than they did today.

Last season, the low point came in the Loyola game on January 2, the first conference game. I just checked the forum thread for that game, and the team was savaged by comments suggesting they were mediocre at best and predicting a middle of the pack conference finish. Some members stated the game proved that team wasn't anything special, and they gave up hope for a chance at the championship.

However, the game proved to be the turning point that led to a great run to the championship. I am hoping the same occurs this season, and I am just thankful this wasn't a conference game like the Loyola game. 

[78crusader]

The excuse machine on this board for Carter is already up and running....

Paul

[Smj]

The sky is NOT falling.   I think we all know a bad game and an awesome game can happen.   I would say on this day UCF was a step - no - 4 steps ahead of us....   As for all the carter talk, he is not why we lost.    I just like to keep my expectations in check - too many times everyone talks like some new player will make us unbeatable.   Carter will be good but I am not sure I see the quickness and the basketball IQ that everyone was talking about

We came to play one team and a different team showed up. Not sure we came to win at all costs - team seemed to just look like they were going through the motions and we are yet to find that spark off the bench.

[HC]

That was a whoopin! Too much time in the hit tub Saturday night me thinks.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Too much time in the hit tub

...with Timbaland, Pete Rose, and Ike Turner, apparently

[LaPorteAveApostle]

The excuse machine on this board for Carter is already up and running....

...really?  Really?

You're everything that's wrong with HOT SPROTZ TAKES in America today if you're going to write this kid off based on two games--his first live rounds in over a year--off of just his fifth game ever post-HS.

Why don't you do us a favor and pick a player who actually does suit you:

Player A 5 gp   17 mpg   8-18 FG (44.4%)   5-7 3PT (71.4%)   1.8 rpg   2.4 apg   4.6 ppg
Player B 5 gp   14.6mpg  9-18 FG (50%)    6-14 3PT(42.8%)   1.8 rpg   1.2 apg   5.2 ppg
Player C 5 gp   24.8mpg 23-54 FG (42.6%) 6-15 3PT(40%)      2.2 rpg   2.4 apg  13.6 ppg

Seems pretty obvious, right?  A&B are basically interchangeable, if not identical, and Player C, well, he is just a STRAIGHT SHOOTER with upper-management potential written ALL OVER HIM.

These are the stats from the first five games of Keith Carter's college career (Player A) and Ryan Broekhoff (Player B).  Should've written THAT guy off too, huh?  The Rowdy excuse train was just pulling out of Melbourne station then!

Oh, and Player C was Tony Falu's first 5 games at VU, btw.

I hate that I had to spend all this time looking it up and calculating to prove a point.

But consider it proven:  drawing conclusions about someone based on the first 5 games of their career is not helpful.  Draw them later.  Not only is it fairer to the object in your crosshairs, it's more accurate and therefore it looks better for you.

The wisdom of Solon, paraphrased for a new, less-patient millennium:  "Count no man good before he matriculates."

[justducky]

We came to play one team and a different team showed up.

Obviously having 3 weeks to study and reengineer your attack on our zone has its advantages, and obviously when we are outplayed in every aspect of the game the result is not going to be pretty.

I do suspect that Carters insertion may have caused some offensive flow problems but since that was unavoidable and should work itself out over time I  am going to limit my comments to the defensive end. UCF did a great job of picking the zone apart and an even better job of hitting those open looks. Bryce was not happy with our zone play but stubbornly stuck with it almost all the way with changes in personal being his only adjustment. So as an open question what did that lack of an adjustment tell the team and the fan base?

Does Bryce think that the zone (when properly played) is all we need for Horizon League title contention? Do you? Does Bryce think that he doesn't have the speed, athleticism or maturity for more man to man? Do you? What was Bryce trying to accomplish by sticking to something that wasn't working?

[78crusader]

Your argument goes both ways--someone playing in their "5th-ever post HS game" should not have been touted on this board as a sure-fire difference maker. 

Paul

[historyman]

Sorry - got to keep my expectations grounded on Carter...   

Probably the smartest comment made in this thread.

BTW, Apostle, 78 never said he wasn't expecting great things from Keith Carter. He said posters were making up excuses for Carter after talking him up way too much. I remember many saying that with Carter we would have won close games we had lost. There never seemed to be an acknowledgement that it was going to take Carter time to break in and work his way up to playing great.

In my opinion it was the poor shooting and tough breaks that stopped Alec Peters from doing almost anything positive that made the Crusaders suck this afternoon. Alec was totally frustrated and couldn't turn it around as he did at Evansville.

[vu72]

Wow!  Hope nobody breaks an ankle jumping off the bandwagon.  It was a terrible performance and no doubt individual stats etc were made worse by the overall team shooting.  You know, if we aren't down a consistent 20-30 because we are hitting our shots, guys don't need to try to force things and turn the ball over.

I think the announcers were on to something when they said that coaches across the board hate the last game before Christmas break as the kids lose focus.  Clearly that happened to Valpo today while UCF had the advantage of not focusing on "getting" home to friends and family as they were obviously already sleeping in their own beds.

We'll be fine.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Your argument goes both ways--someone playing in their "5th-ever post HS game" should not have been touted on this board as a sure-fire difference maker. 

how many other people made their VU --and college-- debut midseason?  it's like jumping on the merry-go-round once it's been running for 13 games.  and there have been plenty of people touted as 'sure-fire difference maker's.

There never seemed to be an acknowledgement that it was going to take Carter time to break in and work his way up to playing great.

are you even reading the same board I'm reading?

Above all lets remember that LaVonte was not an instant sensation and that Keith may require just as much patience.

I'm going to keep my expectations down about Keith.

I mean we know what Carter did against us at St. Louis last season, but what will he be like after a year away from game action?

Is Carter really this good?  I am trying to temper my excitement until I see him play.

We all think that the team will improve even more when Carter is eligible, but while I hope that is true it is more likely that it will take time for him to fit in on the floor.

[HC]

Zone is the way to go most of the time for Valpo. Have you sen some of these guys try to defend man to man? Peters doesn't play defense when they've gone man, none of our bigs can guard a guy outside the paint, and outside Lexus (and maybe Carter, whom I haven't seen yet) I don't think our guards are quick enough/have the desire to stay in front of the opposing point guard. I think our zone can be more effective, I'd like to see them go back to doubling with 2 bigs like they did last year. 

[historyman]

Quote from: historyman on Today at 06:36:44 PM There never seemed to be an acknowledgement that it was going to take Carter time to break in and work his way up to playing great. are you even reading the same board I'm reading? Quote from: justducky on December 16, 2013, 03:59:42 PM Above all lets remember that LaVonte was not an instant sensation and that Keith may require just as much patience. Quote from: chipper955 on December 16, 2013, 06:47:10 PM I'm going to keep my expectations down about Keith. Quote from: valporun on September 19, 2013, 10:42:37 AM I mean we know what Carter did against us at St. Louis last season, but what will he be like after a year away from game action? Quote from: valpotx on December 14, 2013, 03:27:22 PM Is Carter really this good?  I am trying to temper my excitement until I see him play. Quote from: vu84v2 on December 04, 2013, 12:49:19 PM We all think that the team will improve even more when Carter is eligible, but while I hope that is true it is more likely that it will take time for him to fit in on the floor.

Carter is a more-complete guard than any we had on the court this year.

Do we need Keith Carter to be a savior?  I don't think so, but if he can give us a couple more assists and say... an additional 4 points per game then this team probably would have lost just one or two games.

St. Louis was picked to finish 2nd in the A-10 behind VCU.  They have WAY more experienced players than we do, and yet we took them to the wire.  Throw Keith Carter into the mix, and there's no doubt we win this game.

Keith - Amazing to think that he might be the best player on this team, possibly the HL, and we're playing like this. Can't imagine how good we'll be with him. Excited to see him in a few weeks for the first time. He's the factor that might put us over the edge into a great team.

The silver lining is that we are doing this all without a true PG, and KC might be our best player once eligible.

Don't be crazy.  Look, we have had some struggles at times....are you really surprised by that, given all the new faces in the rotation?  That said, we don't have a bad loss and we have been resilient.  Keith Carter is going to push this team over the top.