Wright State at Valpo, Jan. 10th, Friday 8:00 p.m. CT Game Thread

[valpotx]

He started off with such promise shooting FTs this year too!  I believe it is at 13 in a row missed as well.

[wh]

Vashil looks like the best candidate I  have seen in over a decade who could and should be converted to the underhand freethrow. Is there anyone still alive who remembers how to teach it other than maybe setshot? I had a 5'th grade coach that had me shoot underhand but my results were very similar to Vashils. How many in a row has he missed? I think it is at least 13.

Either no one is working with him or he is ignoring what he is being taught.  Rather than his shooting elbow being out front and tight, it is at about a 45 degree angle to the right and he shoots the ball back across his body.  He shoots a jump shot exactly the same way, which takes him forever to load and release. 

[truth219]

Williams is the best slasher and passer on the team. I believe he should be playing 35 mins a game. Alec peters is ice cold right now. I don't know why D.C. isnt getting any minutes.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[usc4valpo]

A few pointers...I was watching the game at a BBQ joint and they looked rather slugish.

1.  This is a very young team overall which will turn the ball over at times when you don't expect.  This is generally a rebuilding year.
2.  Sometimes we overhype the player skillset - I think this has happened with Carter, where we were already giving him the Horizon player of the year award.  He obviously has a ways to go before he gels.   Valpo's talent level this year is not as good as we think it is.
3.  Drew is decent coach; he got outcoached last night.  Even John Wooden and the great Tom Smith got outcoached now and then.
4.  Why do guys have a problem with Billy Donlan?  He is coaching well at WSU and building his career from the ground up.

[oklahomamick]

I was impressed with Valpo's size last night, so I checked their roster versus those who had court time. They had starters at 6'8" and 6'10". Coming off the bench was a 6'7", a 6'10", and a 7 footer. They had size as well as bulk. My memory is not good, but I don't recall any string beans on their squad.

Read more: http://wrightstate.proboards.com/thread/2699/game-18-valparaiso?page=9#ixzz2q67SX7sw

This was a fan from Wright State.  We have the size inside, but besides the pick-and-roll last night, we don't have much have an inside post game.  We just had more passes inside last year that opened the 3 pt shot.  We had more cuts to the basket and more dribble penetration.  Now, we just hand the ball off and make 3 feet awkward passes.  We don't stretch other defenses out. 

[a3uge]

Some more thoughts. I wish Yeo would have redshirted. He looks like Taylor Swift playing  basketball. The guy is nowhere near D1 ready.

Has Carter gained eligibility yet? I can't wait till he suits up in a Valpo uniform.

Coleman has to get more minutes, but please don't have him throw an inbound pass ever again.

Wright State's offense looked dreadful. I can see how they lost to North Carolina A&T or whatever school that was. Valpo was just completely incompetent on offense. Poor game plan, poor execution, poor everything.

I'm not going to give Billy any credit for being a wonderful coach this year. They had one of the worst OOC schedules in all of D1. They were picked 2nd in conference with 1st place votes. They lost 8 non conference games. If they somehow win the league, they'll be a 16 seed. At this point the only chance for a HL team to win in the tourney is to have GB win the Conf.

[truth219]

Carter is eligible.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[mvandersee]

The worst part about Vashil's free throw shooting is how it suddenly dropped off in the middle of the season. Following the Mercer game he had made 12-16 (75%), but ever since then he has shot 9-32 (28%). My immediate reaction was that either him or the coaches saw this progress at the beginning of the year and backed off the amount of practice time that he gets at the line. It's just unacceptable to have that much regression over the course of one season.

[Smj]

a3uge - funniest Carter comment...

[classof2014]

An absolutely awful performance.

Anybody know what is up with Bobby? Is he hurt or has he been playing so poorly that Bryce has put him on the bench?

Another thing I noticed that drove me crazy last night was when it seemed like a player would get hot, make a nice shot, a couple of good defensive plays, a few nice passes, Bryce took them out of the game. If my memory is correct, when we cut the lead to one, with Lexus, Keith, LVD, Alec, and Vashil we took a bunch of them out of the game and WSU pushed the lead back up and took the air out of our game and then when they came back in many of them seemed flat and slow. I understand guys need to sit sometimes but why do a wholesale change, when you can do it slowly with one guy at a time? I fully believe that Bryce should've let that group stay in longer until they got the lead.

[ChiValpoFan14]

Before anyone loses sleep or anymore hair over this team, just remember...this isn't last years team. Give this team a year or two.

I expected this team to be just above .500 in league play with a couple good wins and a couple bad losses. We're young and the freshman class can be really really good when they are juniors/seniors. The freshman are making freshman like mistakes. The problem is, the seniors are also making freshman like mistakes. This teams best basketball is in the future with Peters, Williams, Adekoya, Carter, and the rest. We played right into WSU's strengths. The young guys know what to expect from a Billy Donlon WSU team from now on.

Teams like Green Bay, Wright State, Oakland are just better, battle tested teams with players that have been around the block a few times. If this was last years team playing like this, then we would have something to worry about. Just CALM DOWN people, everything will be okay  . This isn't the year. Unless we turn things around, we'll be in the middle of the pack. Maybe we can get hot during HL tourney time but who knows.

[valpopal]

Looking at the poor shooting in this game, it is hard to believe Valpo leads the Horizon League in field goal percentage and 3-point field goal percentage, and until now had led the league in scoring offense. Shooting 32% and 27% from the 3-point line will not get the job done.

Also, the defensive aggressiveness seems diminished recently. In the second half of the last game Oakland committed 0 turnovers, and for the two halves of this game Wright State only committed 4 turnovers. (In the press conference Donlon acted like he couldn't believe that stat since his team is one of the worst in the nation on turnovers.) During the first ten minutes of the second half last night, Valpo at last seemed to be tightening the defense, which led to offense as well.

I will note that the offense looked a bit lost at times because Dority, who was in a lot of pain due to a back injury, seemed severely limited, and he is usually counted upon for much of the movement on offense. But there is no excuse for the poor performance of the team, all of whom seemed dejected after the game. Let's hope that dejection turns to determination.

Here are a few of my photos of high-percentage shots that did go in the basket:

[SanityLost17]

I completely agree with everyone that our offensive flow was terrible. 

However, this was the most PHYSICAL defense we have seen BY FAR all season long.  When we did drive to the basket it was very physical.  I counted a half dozen times that WSU defenders would put BOTH hands on the driver to keep themselves betweeen the offensive player and the basket.  WSU is a good team.  They lost to a lot of crap teams early in the season because the referees were whistle happy.  The foul disparity in some of their early loses was crazy.  That is no longer the case and WSU is back to being a legit contented for a Horizon League crown.  Also, WSU is very good at being physical with cutters away from the ball. Bumping you off your line and quitting a quick hold in to slow you down.   

We are simply not that physical, or perhaps not quick enough?   Either way, when teams move the ball quickly against us, they are going to get an open look sometime in the shot clock.  Luckily, WSU is a poor shooting team or last night could have been much worse.     

[justducky]

It is as if The NCAA has e-mailed every D-1 referee and told them that all the off season literature, seminars, and instructions towards those specific points of emphasis has now been declared a success and so going forward "Never Mind".

I now have no reason to believe that league play will be anything other than HL Wrestlemania 2014 just like it has always been in the past. My views are much like StLVUFan has stated in the past in that one set of rules with one set of interpretations be consistently called from the first game of the season to the last. That said I take my hat off to Donlan because away from the ball his defenders make it impossible to get open for back door cuts because they are pushed, bodied, handchecked, tripped and held. Jordan Coleman is the only 3 we have at this moment that can handle that type of combat.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Exactly--everyone thought WSU would pay the price for their defense with the new rules, and they did--in 2013.  Not any more.

Can we stop it with inane transfer talk?  The team isn't 3 and 15.  And so what if they did?  Is anyone on a .500 team irreplaceable anyway?

[valpotx]

It's ridiculous that they are no longer calling the hand checks/bars on defenders.  It just plays into WSU and CSU's hands as that is how they play defense, keeping their hands on their offensive player on any drives.  It completely throws off an offensive team's game, as they have been used to getting these calls.

[ValpoFan]

I understand that this team has 3 freshmen getting significant playing time, but in the same time, the team features 4 seniors.
So how do you define a young team? 

[valpo64]

A young, inexperienced team is exemplified by the fact that at least at one point last night, NONE of our 5 players on the floor had any college experience until this year.  They were playing against a team who didn't lose anyone from last year's team as I recall.  Experience and strength  will come but as of now, our deficiency in these areas will cost us.

[valpopal]

I have now uploaded a set with 27 of my photos from the game, including shots of the halftime entertainment attempting to imitate the style of Jordan Coleman's first-half slam dunk as seen below. You can check out the pictures at the following link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/96208998@N05/sets/72157639661747503/

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I'm done. Not done rooting for VU. But done thinking this team has a chance for a special season.

Valpo is so inconsistant. They looked so bad tonight. Dority isn't all that

Sorry for the rant - I'm frustrated by this home loss to what I thought would be a lesser conference foe.

I guess we'd best learn to savor any victory that the team is able to notch.  They have shown the potential to let any D1 team be a challenge this year.  I just hope they don't exhibit that potential often in the next couple of months.

Well, we just played a very hard fought game where our overall mental execution (first half especially) was not that bad and still got spanked at home. Back to the drawing board.

Coach Drew was outcoached both on the court and in preparing his team for the game. Hopefully they can pull it together

Based on how things have gone with this team, will it stop those who thought this team would be so special? They haven't proven any of you right, and they've played more to their own individual weaknesses, rather than to the team strengths. Strengths that I don't think exist anymore. It is going to be an even longer season with the way this team has lost touch with their game, the missed layups, shooting bad shots, turnovers like they are fresh out of the oven...We have so many things that need to be fixed, and no chemistry in the lineups or rotations. It just makes it hard to watch this team with any sense of seriousness right now.

Inconsistent - with flashes of excellence.    However, when it is bad it is really bad.   I see one game and think - wow we are going to be tough to beat and then the next game I wonder how we are going to win the next game.   ...  We seem to play to the competition - with that - the win just goes to the team that has the last run...

The refs tonight really let them play.  This does not usually seem like it is good for us. 

This was a total team loss.  We were out scouted, out coached and out played.  ... [They] got away with a lot of crap.  I thought I was watching a playground game where players were supposed to call their own fouls but no one did....As others have pointed out, this team continues to have an identity crisis.  There are players that have clearly not accepted their roles.  I am really starting to wonder about the wisdom of having a team full transfers. 

This season:

This is a great wake up call, lets see if VU hits the snooze button or jumps up and gets going.

Wow well sounds like the defending Horizon League coach of the year should just quit.
I'm disappointed as everyone else about last night's game and the inconsistency so far, but these type of games seem to be the norm throughout the Horizon League this year and I expect plenty of upsets.  Just gotta take it game by game. 

By the way, told my wife 3 minutes into last night's game that the refs were letting them play and we needed to get tougher. It never happened and the refs stayed consistent the rest of the night.

Lastly, may I remind everyone that we had a very similar game almost exactly one year ago and it turned out to be our only conference home loss of the entire season.  You can assign signature significance to this one game if you like, but count me out.

[StlVUFan]

It is as if The NCAA has e-mailed every D-1 referee and told them that all the off season literature, seminars, and instructions towards those specific points of emphasis has now been declared a success and so going forward "Never Mind".

I wouldn't bet the farm on that just yet.  We'll have to see when they start drawing conclusions from evaluations.  I get the sense that Mark Adams is not letting go of this that easily.

I do think referees are prone to lapsing into old habits just like the rest of us.

I don't blame Billy Donlon and Gary Waters for exploiting this, but I refuse to applaud them for it all the same.  I'm too busy criticizing the refs to applaud them.  They get no blame, but they also get no credit from me.

[StlVUFan]

I'm done. Not done rooting for VU. But done thinking this team has a chance for a special season.

Valpo is so inconsistant. They looked so bad tonight. Dority isn't all that

Sorry for the rant - I'm frustrated by this home loss to what I thought would be a lesser conference foe.

I guess we'd best learn to savor any victory that the team is able to notch.  They have shown the potential to let any D1 team be a challenge this year.  I just hope they don't exhibit that potential often in the next couple of months.

Well, we just played a very hard fought game where our overall mental execution (first half especially) was not that bad and still got spanked at home. Back to the drawing board.

Coach Drew was outcoached both on the court and in preparing his team for the game. Hopefully they can pull it together

Based on how things have gone with this team, will it stop those who thought this team would be so special? They haven't proven any of you right, and they've played more to their own individual weaknesses, rather than to the team strengths. Strengths that I don't think exist anymore. It is going to be an even longer season with the way this team has lost touch with their game, the missed layups, shooting bad shots, turnovers like they are fresh out of the oven...We have so many things that need to be fixed, and no chemistry in the lineups or rotations. It just makes it hard to watch this team with any sense of seriousness right now.

Inconsistent - with flashes of excellence.    However, when it is bad it is really bad.   I see one game and think - wow we are going to be tough to beat and then the next game I wonder how we are going to win the next game.   ...  We seem to play to the competition - with that - the win just goes to the team that has the last run...

The refs tonight really let them play.  This does not usually seem like it is good for us. 

This was a total team loss.  We were out scouted, out coached and out played.  ... [They] got away with a lot of crap.  I thought I was watching a playground game where players were supposed to call their own fouls but no one did....As others have pointed out, this team continues to have an identity crisis.  There are players that have clearly not accepted their roles.  I am really starting to wonder about the wisdom of having a team full transfers.

This season:

This is a great wake up call, lets see if VU hits the snooze button or jumps up and gets going.

Wow well sounds like the defending Horizon League coach of the year should just quit.
I'm disappointed as everyone else about last night's game and the inconsistency so far, but these type of games seem to be the norm throughout the Horizon League this year and I expect plenty of upsets.  Just gotta take it game by game. 

By the way, told my wife 3 minutes into last night's game that the refs were letting them play and we needed to get tougher. It never happened and the refs stayed consistent the rest of the night.

Lastly, may I remind everyone that we had a very similar game almost exactly one year ago and it turned out to be our only conference home loss of the entire season.  You can assign signature significance to this one game if you like, but count me out.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Yeah, I should have done it sooner, but I just wanted to save y'all some time.

So I posted a bunch of your old posts from the Loyola loss last year.  You're welcome. 

Kind of funny that the more things change...

As for how I personally feel, well, STL said it perfectly at the end there (at the end of MY post because he just posted in between us d'oh now TWICE COME ON MAN).  Too bad it was prophetic.

(Also, the person who claimed that "Loyola was top 4 HL material" and "wouldn't get blown out" did NOT get quoted, you're welcome, although I will put this right here for him/her: 5-11!  And blown out by 18 at MILWAUKEE--that's last year's model Milwaukee, "Old Milwaukee" not "Milwaukee's Beast".  OK, well other that that they didn't get blown out.  But they weren't in the top 4.  They were in the next 4 though.)

OK, I'll reprint STL's again here because it's worth it.

Lastly, may I remind everyone that we had a very similar game almost exactly one year ago and it turned out to be our only conference home loss of the entire season.  You can assign signature significance to this one game if you like, but count me out.

[usc4valpo]

Spot on comments.  There are some talent gaps but there is some learning going on.

[valpopal]