Valpo @ Cleveland State, Sat 1/25, 2 PM ET tip

[valpo84]

why??

With classes canceled Monday and Tuesday, there will be plenty of time to practice for Wednesday's game!
[/quote]

[valporun]

Temperatures are projected to be -9 to -20 with wind chills in the -30 to -45 range in the upper Midwest near the Great Lakes region for both Monday and Tuesday.

[truth219]

I don't see how anyone could say anything negative about Adekoya. Even after todays 0-7 effort, he still has the best shooting percentage on the team (62%).

In my opinion, bobby just isn't that good. He played better last year because he was surrounded by better players. He's slow and extremely unathletic . He turns the ball over and can't dribble or pass well. He's a 5th year senior, he's had time to develop.

Lexus is young and makes mistakes, but he has a very high ceiling. He's fast, can shoot, and pass. He just gets excited and nervous.



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[justducky]

Capo, Yeo, Chadwick, Coleman, Carter... oh god.

Any time you send 5 players to the scorers table simultaneously it is a demonstration of complete coaching frustration.  I still have a very clear memory of watching a long dead local coach springing to his feet, pounding his head with both hands then running down the bench wildly waving the second 5 to get out of their warm up gear and get into the game. As the starters took the bench he didn't say a word but continued to stare down on them with hands on hips as the game continued. I think the message must have been received because they looked like a different team when they returned to play in the  second half. That was a case where it turned that game and that tournament completely on a dime. As an aside one of the players waived from that bench was later recruited by Bartow.

[truth219]

Here's a good question... what was the point of bringing Chadwick to valpo?

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[LaPorteAveApostle]

he's tall and wouldn't complain about not a lot of PT.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2674/valparaiso-crusaders

Click on that link and you find we're in the top 15% of D1 for PPG.  For rebounding.  We're in the top 11% of FG% even after today's blahsaster.  We're in the top FIVE percent for rebounds allowed.

And we're 12 and 10.

I'll repeat, because it bears it:  This team is top-50 in shooting, rebounding, scoring.

And we're 12-10, hovering around the top-50 PERCENT of teams.

Why?  Well, multiple reasons, owing a lot to ill-defined roles and a lack of consistency in lineups, not allowing for gelling, player confidence or comfort, etc.

But mostly, the turnovers. We're really really good at scoring IF WE DON'T FRICKIN GIVE THE BALL AWAY.  (And maybe the lack of familiarity with one another lends itself to that?)

We're last in the conference.  312 outta 349 D1 teams in assist-to-turnover ratio.  (And it's NOT because of low assists--we're #50 in the country in assist rate!!!)
http://www.bbstate.com/teams/VALP/statprofile
Click there for the sad truth:  we are 338 in D1 in TO rate.  21.6%.

TWENTY ONE POINT SIX PERCENT.  We give away more than one out of every five possessions.[/i]

And you know what's particularly galling?  Other teams AREN'T RECIPROCATING.  Our opponent TO rate is 335th in the country!  (I didn't know this until I started writing this, and I feel like banging my head against the table, but it would wake the baby.)

The soul-sucking part of this is that these are not freshmen mistakes.  This is a hallmark of a Bryce Drew team.

Last year's TO rate (with The World's Oldest Team) was 21.1%.  2012 was 21.7%.

I just...I don't know, man.

[truth219]

What this team needs is...Nathan Stegelmann....

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[atkins]

I agree that Yeo will be a big part of the future.  He's quick and has long arms with a sweet shot.  He certainly needs to bulk-up, but when he does, watch out!  It was good to see Peters hit some 3s today.  Hopefully, they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.  He's a decent positional rebounder and a great passer.  I see him as a slightly less-skilled and less-agile Ted Kitchel, who was one of my favorite IU players.  Hopefully, he can develop into the sort of player that Kitchel was.

[HC]

I love how after a loss nearly everyone picks a part and blows out of proportion every little thing, while after a win we are world beaters. Coach Drew goes from COY to a guy who can't do anything right nearly on a weekly basis here. This team is inexperience at playing with each other. The highs will be real high and the lows could be pretty low.

The turnovers we are giving away and the turnovers we aren't getting back is definitely the most concerning. When/if those numbers start getting better in both directions this team will play more consistent and not give us fans so many sore legs from jumping on and off the 2014 bandwagon.

[Chairback]

Where did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years?  It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.

[valpotx]

It appears that I picked a good game to miss, instead going to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 . 

We have now laid an egg at home, as well as on the road in conference.  With the way the season has gone, I am happy to be 4-3, with the chance to be 5-3 after our home game against GB.  If we beat the top team, you never know what that can do for the second half of conference!

In regards to Chadwick, I wondered the same thing about why he transferred here.  Rice is not a better program than Valpo in basketball, and he was getting 7.3 minutes/game in more games than he will play this year at Valpo.  Maybe he saw that KVW was leaving, and we didn't really have any bigs lined up to take his place, and then Moussa came available, eating into any minutes available at the 5.  I would have to think that if he sticks around for next season, he would at least play in each game, with the lack of size we will have (unless replaced through JuCo or FR).

[justducky]

It was good to see Peters hit some 3s today.  Hopefully, they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.  He's a decent positional rebounder and a great passer.  I see him as a slightly less-skilled and less-agile Ted Kitchel, who was one of my favorite IU players.

An interesting comparison that maybe someone with a better memory of Teds freshman year could speak to?

I agree that Yeo will be a big part of the future.  He's quick and has long arms with a sweet shot.  He certainly needs to bulk-up, but when he does, watch out!

I will agree with you and a3uge that he does need to get stronger and a bit bulkier but to what extent might lead to some debate. Coming in to the season I thought that his ball handling deficiencies would restrict his play almost totally to the 3 position and that he would not be ready to contribute as a 2 until his sophomore year. Although I still think his best chance will be as a 3 his recent play at the 2 has begun to make me question that judgement. Matt Kenny over the years grew and developed into a very good 3 somewhat at the expense of his potential for play as either a 2 or 1 (both of which he was given some brief looks). Maybe Cleos' future best use will require an intermediate weight suitable for both positions.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

going to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 .

We have now laid an egg at home

I think you need to retake the class...

[vu72]

going to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 .

We have now laid an egg at home

I think you need to retake the class...

[oklahomamick]

I believe one of the reason for the high turnovers (not just this year, but in Bryce's time at Valpo) is the frequent substitutions.  I've never seen a team sub as many players or as many times as we do.  I think this leads to the turnovers. 

[crusadermoe]

I agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board.   It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it.   

Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending.   Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher,  I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time.    He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February.   

We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney.   They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success. 

If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs.  GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players.   But all 3 are very beatable in February and March.   No Butler in this group.   Relax.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Where did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years?  It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.

I posted the rates above.  Last year was lower but still above 21%.  His first year was just as bad as this in raw data.  But you're right, rank is helpful.

Paging a3uge to figure that out?

[historyman]

they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.

How is he supposed to do both of these at the same time? Maybe explaining with a little more clarity would help us understand what you mean.

[HC]

When your man and the ball are on the same side you stay with your man. Peters gets beat from time to time on back cuts in these situations. When the ball and your man are on opposite sides of the court then you have to be able to rotate and help or double team.

[vu72]

I agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board.   It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it.   

Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending.   Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher,  I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time.    He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February.   

We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney.   They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success. 

If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs.  GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players.   But all 3 are very beatable in February and March.  No Butler in this group.   Relax.

Phew!!  We sure don't need a team we have beaten the last four times we've played ruining our title run!!   

[a3uge]

Where did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years?  It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.

I posted the rates above.  Last year was lower but still above 21%.  His first year was just as bad as this in raw data.  But you're right, rank is helpful.

Paging a3uge to figure that out?

We only force 8.0 Turnovers per game. That's horrible.

(Note 1st out of 9 means good in both cases, 9th/9 means bad... you get it)

Turnover Per Game

2013-14: commit 14.4 (8th/9 ) - force 8.0 (9th/9) * worst
2012-13: commit 12.8 (5th/9) - force 11.9 (5th/9)
2011-12: commit 13.7 (7th/10) - force 10.6 (10th/10) * worst

Assist to T/O
2013-14: 9th/9 (0.7)
2012-13: 2nd/9 (1.2)
2011-12: 2nd/10 (1.0)

So it may be a reoccurring theme... but FG % and 3pt % is also a reoccurring theme, which may kind of explain the offense. It could also speak to whom we recruit and play - we recruit good shooters like Peters, Dority, Yeo eventually, Kenny, Broekhoff, Boggs, Bogan, Rossi, ect, all of whom don't really seem like excellent ball handlers, but in comparison to the rest of the league, are really good long range shooters.

Edit: if you want to see other turnover stat mumbo jumbo: http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/horizon/team_stats?season=2013-2014

[atkins]

they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.

How is he supposed to do both of these at the same time? Maybe explaining with a little more clarity would help us understand what you mean.

Thanks to HC for clearly explaining what I had meant to say.  However, the notion of Peters being able to do both at the same time is an appealing thought.  Might make him the best defensive player ever. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

We only force 8.0 Turnovers per game. That's horrible.

I did say we were ranked 335th in that.

And we're 338th in TOs committed.

And 312th in AST to TO ratio.

I was wondering where our 21.1% ranked last year and our 21.7% the year before that.  BBState doesn't list the rank for past years--at least, not that I could find--just our number, the national average, and the conf avg. I think?

[historyman]

I agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board.   It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it. Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending.   Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher,  I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time.    He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February. We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney.   They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success. If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs.  GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players.   But all 3 are very beatable in February and March.  No Butler in this group.   Relax.

Phew!!  We sure don't need a team we have beaten the last four times we've played ruining our title run!!   

Past results are not indicative of future performance. Just because 3 years ago before Butler left the HL with each team having a totally different group of players, Valpo beat Butler four times does not mean that Valpo would beat out Butler in a conference race. This board hangs it's hat far too often on old accomplishments. Seems to me that Butler has much greater accomplishments, such as two Final Fours, to hang it's hat on than Valpo ever has. It's time to stop sighting old accomplishments that compared to our old opponent, are no where near as great. I wonder how many on this board truly think that since Valpo beat Butler 4 times in their last 4 meetings that Butler would not be a challenge to Valpo in a conference race. It's just not anywhere near realistic.

[valpotx]

No one is being serious that just because we have beaten them 4 times in a row, that we are now the better team.  All of us just like to revel in the fact that from now until the end of time, we get to say that we have beaten them 4 times in a row (since they won't ever schedule us again)