Valpo at Green Bay 2/20/14 Thursday 7:00 p.m. CT game thread

[valpopal]

From the GB board:

I forgot to mention this before. I was really annoyed at the 8 or 12 minute timeout in the second half. Valpo was questioning something that the officials looked in to and then denied them. Bryce tried to storm past the officials and go to scorer's table but had to be pushed back. At the same time some little dude on the Valpo radio broadcast jumps up and starts running to the scorer's table yelling and pointing. He gets sent back to his seat an yells at the officials and pounds his hands on the padded table top. So anyone claiming Valpo didn't get a call is missing that they avoided what should have been two technical fouls right there. Oh and they are also missing that maybe the second best shot blocking team in the country did what they do...block shots. For goodness sake Coleman blew a wide open fast break for fear that his shot would be blocked.

Speaking of which GB missed 5 bunnies as well. The margin of victory should have been 20 or more.

How ironic! Apparently, the Green Bay poster ignored the fact that Bryce and Aaron were correct and the officials were wrong. Therefore, this incident actually exists as further evidence with another example where Valpo "didn't get a call."

[valpotx]

Also proves that the GB poster is a moron.  We missed several bunnies outside of the BS no foul calls on each drive, so yes, we probably still lose, but by a much closer margin.  You know, I admit when a ref blows a call that benefits Valpo or misses something, and wish other fans would do the same.

[SanityLost17]

From the GB board:

I forgot to mention this before. I was really annoyed at the 8 or 12 minute timeout in the second half. Valpo was questioning something that the officials looked in to and then denied them. Bryce tried to storm past the officials and go to scorer's table but had to be pushed back. At the same time some little dude on the Valpo radio broadcast jumps up and starts running to the scorer's table yelling and pointing. He gets sent back to his seat an yells at the officials and pounds his hands on the padded table top. So anyone claiming Valpo didn't get a call is missing that they avoided what should have been two technical fouls right there. Oh and they are also missing that maybe the second best shot blocking team in the country did what they do...block shots. For goodness sake Coleman blew a wide open fast break for fear that his shot would be blocked.

Speaking of which GB missed 5 bunnies as well. The margin of victory should have been 20 or more.

How ironic! Apparently, the Green Bay poster ignored the fact that Bryce and Aaron were correct and the officials were wrong. Therefore, this incident actually exists as further evidence with another example where Valpo "didn't get a call."

Somebody on the valpo bench should have been T'd up for sure.  Only reason I can think that the refs didn't is because they knew that Bryce was probably right, but had to go with whoever's word it was at the table that "DOrity wasnt sitting right next to Capo" which of course he was.

[agibson]

I'm tempted to withhold judgment until we hear from the scorer.  The player's meant to check in with them?  Is it possible Capo checked in, but LVD was just sort of hanging out, forgetting to check in?

[FWalum]

I'm not much of a judge of foul vs. no call.  So, during last night's game my thought process was something like, "Wow - Brown's really good at getting clean blocks without committing a foul.... or is this the star treatment?"  I don't have a clear personal impression on whether contact was called fairly, or not.  Relative to other games, or to other players.

I have to admit that I think Brown does a better job of keeping his arms up and not "swatting" downward at the ball.  However, there still was a lot of "body" on several of the blocks, blocks that in similar situations Moussa gets the foul perhaps because of his much larger frame and weight. 

The poster from GB that WH quoted is a moron (as others have pointed out).  It seems that the refs and GB forgot that GB was going against the second best shot blocking team in the conference (and since conference play started the 10th best team in the county) last night.  Looking at a statistical analysis, two of the main outliers were BLKS and FTA, both in GB's favor.  GB blocked 12 shots or 64% above their average, VU had 7 blocks or 17% above there average.  On FTA's GB shot 101.2% percent of their conference average of 24.7 attempts while VU only shot 29.36% of their conference average of 23.85 attempts.  The correlation seems somewhat obvious.

[Smj]

I had to cool down before I could post.    I watched in disbelief because the bad calling was so obvious. ...   If you are going to intentional make bad calls at least make it believable.

I told my wife at one point when Dorothy drove and got hammered then a call against us on the other side immediately following - late in the second that if I was the coach I would have just packed up and gone home.    (I could not see it but was Bryce in the refs faces?  A couple times I thought he should have been out on the floor. )

I am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

[classof2014]

I am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

At least they were consistent in being poor for both teams. Watching a game like last night's really makes me think that Wardle or some higher-up in Green Bay Athletics Department payed off the refs. If that's the case, those refs are fired, Wardle gone, GB DQed for the remainder of the season. If you're not gonna call anything, then don't call anything on either side. I seriously believe money may have been involved in this one. Hopefully the MVC will see the mistake in choosing Loyola and and add us into their conference.

[valpopal]

I'm tempted to withhold judgment until we hear from the scorer.  The player's meant to check in with them?  Is it possible Capo checked in, but LVD was just sort of hanging out, forgetting to check in?

LVD was kneeling in front of the scorer for a good amount of time obvious that he was substituting. Look at the replay: everybody saw him. Even if he forgot to check in, a good official scorer will remind him or ask which player he is replacing rather than refuse him entry. I have seen this a number of times. In fact, I remember Rowdy last year forgetting when kneeling to enter a game and the scorer calling to him, asking who he was replacing, and he turned and said "3." That is all it takes.

[historyman]

I am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

At least they were consistent in being poor for both teams. Watching a game like last night's really makes me think that Wardle or some higher-up in Green Bay Athletics Department payed off the refs. If that's the case, those refs are fired, Wardle gone, GB DQed for the remainder of the season. If you're not gonna call anything, then don't call anything on either side. I seriously believe money may have been involved in this one. Hopefully the MVC will see the mistake in choosing Loyola and and add us into their conference.

I hope you take a minute, look back at what you wrote and see that your post is extremely off base. I'm not making excuses for the refs. They are human and it's human nature to side with the team that hadn't won a championship in many years on their home court on senior day against a team that had won the last two HL regular season championships. The Phoenix were the feel good story. The refs obviously fell into that trap. Not good for the HL.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

The poster from GB that WH quoted is a moron

I think we're overlooking the obvious thing here.

THEY HAVE ENOUGH FANS TO HAVE A POSTER?

[justducky]

I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

[StlVUFan]

So when the GB player tripped over his own feet at the 3 pt line, that was correct?  That one was pitiful...

God, do I ever remember that one.

The performance of the refs, especially in the 2nd half, was absolutely pathetic.

[StlVUFan]

Am I the only guy that didn't think the game was called that badly? If I was watching the same game you were I would have sworn that we were just completely outplayed. End of story- back to the drawing board!

How badly it was called has nothing to do with whether or not Green Bay outplayed us.  They are two separate observations.

I don't mind the loss.  I mind losing 5-on-8.  Why the hell does Green Bay need the help anyway???  With Brown in there, they should win every time.

I want them to get the calls right and to at least try to be objective.  This game and the Milwaukee game were both horribly called.  I still don't know how we managed to beat Milwaukee so handily.

It's 5-on-5, people.  Otherwise it's not basketball.

[StlVUFan]

I seriously believe money may have been involved in this one.

On the other hand, this is just silly.

I think historyman has it right.  The refs aren't out to get us.  Their problem sometimes is that they subconsciously or unconsciously buy into a narrative and let it color their actions.  It makes them human.  On nights like last night it also makes them incompetent, but I'd need a whole lot more before I'd go to the conspiracy place.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

[justducky]

I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

[justducky]

I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

On top of that you just made me waste over 2 hours rewatching that painfull  performance and listening to that hideous announcer! I am going to throw the total blame for this to that EddieCabot guy whose yanking of everybodies chain made me question the validity of my initial judgement.      Just give me some time and I will figure out a way to get even.

[historyman]

I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side. On top of that you just made me waste over 2 hours rewatching that painful  performance and listening to that hideous announcer! I am going to throw the total blame for this to that EddieCabot guy whose yanking of everybodies chain made me question the validity of my initial judgement.      Just give me some time and I will figure out a way to get even.

Well, then you just missed a poorly refereed game again. And you owe EddieCabot an apology. If Valpo ever gets a 25 to 7 FTA advantage I'll probably say nothing but in the back of my mind I would be thinking the refs had given my team a definite advantage if the opponent was driving the lane as much as Valpo did Thursday night. I believe the HL supervisor of officials has already talked to these refs from the Valpo/GB game and they have been told that their grade or whatever evaluation they are given went down because of this game. I'm sure the refs evaluations are only shared with the refs themselves but it does reflect on which refs are picked for the HL tourney and championship game.

[valpopal]

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

The sixth fewest number of fouls ever called on a Valpo team in its history.
The three guards draw ZERO fouls despite repeatedly driving the basket and getting mauled.
The team is averaging 24 free throws per game and gets 7.

I watched the replay and spotted numerous no-calls that should have been easy to see (as well as the error of not allowing Dority into the game, which also cost Valpo a time out and kept LVD out while Green Bay made a run). In some cases players, especially Coleman and Dority, were practically tackled as they went to the basket. I also trust the words of those closest to the team who believe the game officiating was terrible. The only apology owed is by the Horizon League, who should be embarrassed for the performance by those refs.

I didn't think Valpo was going to win, and probably wouldn't even if the game had been officiated well. However, I would have liked to congratulate Green Bay on an earned victory in a good game, but the circumstances make that difficult to do.

[rink]

The irony of all the whining about officiating in the GB game is how we benefitted from favorable calls in the UWM game just days prior.  (Forum explodes ... but, but, but, our three big men fouled out so we got jobbed and the Drews are amazing and we must have been on the wrong side of home-cooking ... nevermind that our big men's defense was all about being slow & hacking and roughly 14 of the 15 foul calls were dead on ... and nevermind that we had a coach with valuable assets on the floor with 2 minutes left in the first half who was dumb-founded when a foul occurred that made the foul situation even worse.)

In the UWM game, our ball-handlers frequently played themselves into precarious situations and got bailed out by ticky-tack calls.  The final score did not reflect how close the game really was, and the final outcome could have been much different with different officiating.  It's all perspective.

[valpotx]

I had no issue with the way UWM was called, as it seemed to be both ways.  I took more of an issue with the way that Bryce handled the foul situation with our bigs during that game.

Now, after reflection and calming down, I still feel that the GB game had terrible officials.  They weren't paid off or told by the HL to give the championship to GB, that is just silly as has been pointed out by a few posters.  GB most likely would have still beaten us without the foul disparity, but it made it nearly impossible for us to compete with the way they were calling the game on one side of the court.  We literally got hammered BY THEIR BODIES on most of those drives by Lavonte, Lexus, and Jordan.  If you watched the game again justducky, you had to be watching up high, and not the body, because they would get destroyed in mid-air.  Those mid-air collisions are supposed to be fouls against the defense, as they are impeding the progress of the ball, and not remaining planted.  We always get called for those fouls, as Vashil and Moussa are often called for such things as well, and were in the GB game too.  Just because you get all ball up top doesn't mean down below doesn't matter.  There were definitely clean blocks by GB, but several blocks should have been body fouls, and several terrible-looking shots should have been fouls as well, as GB bodies hitting our guys on drives caused us to essentially flail all over...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

[classof2014]

So long we win out we still get the 2 seed. The game was frustrating to watch but we're still in control of our own destiny regarding the 2 seed, I believe. Hopefully the game today will be better refereed and no team gets an unfair advantage. I'm sure the referees at the GB game won't be doing the championship or semifinals games. To me a good referee is a consistent referee. If you're gonna call it tight, call it tight on both sides, if you're gonna let stuff go, let stuff go on both sides, if you're going to be inconsistent being consistently inconsistent on both sides. That's all I ask for.

Lets go out and win these last three games, if fouls would've been more evenly called in the GB game we had a good chance of winning, do we win I don't know. But that game is done, time to take down the Penguins and move on from there. Like I said if we win out we get the ever so important 2 seed. Even if we would've won the GB game, we probably don't get the 1 seed, although it would've given us a chance. GB probably won't win the tourney anyways, if the past 3 years hold true the team with the league MVP falls short (Cole, Rowdy, Jr.), so if Sykes is MVP that spells doom for GB.

[Nix]

You guys are really insinuating that the officials were paid off? 

Every single sporting event, 50% of the people agree 50% disagree.

And don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

[HC]

One person said that, the rest of us disagreed.