Milwaukee at Wright State HL Championship Tuesday 3/11/14 6:00 p.m. CDT

[wh]

I guess it just seems a little unfair that after ragging on the guy for 2 years that you aren't willing to give him more than a backhanded compliment for what was clearly an MVP performance to carry his team to the coveted HL tournament championship. I think it shows a lack of sportsmanship and sends the wrong message to our Milwaukee friends, none of whom have ever called our players overrated or started threads labeling our program a joke the way you have theirs. Just some food for thought...

[a3uge]

I guess it just seems a little unfair that after ragging on the guy for 2 years that you aren't willing to give him more than a backhanded compliment for what was clearly an MVP performance to carry his team to the coveted HL tournament championship. I think it shows a lack of sportsmanship and sends the wrong message to our Milwaukee friends, none of whom have ever called our players overrated or started threads labeling our program a joke the way you have theirs. Just some food for thought...

Ah, my bad. Now let's go rag on Butler!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Ah, so now I see where you're coming from.

Yeah, I don't go to other people's boards, because I don't care.  So if they're offended by what they see on OUR board, then that's their problem.  But I also don't go to THEIR boards and say the same thing, because THAT would be impolite.

It would seem that, given what I know of your political leanings, this would be in keeping with your views.  To paraphrase the late Senator Helms, "let them write what they want, as long as they provide their own message board".  And I don't think that makes me a poor sport.  To say "I'm offended by what they're saying about us over on their board" is precisely the kind of subtle censorship I am sure you reject in the political arena.

Jordan Aaron is who he is.  He had a very good tournament, just as he had some very good games this year.  Then again, given what he did to his team at a crucial time in the season immediately preceding it, he owed them such a performance.  While I don't think he's worthy of 2nd team HL, apparently others do. Because I disagree, I made a convincing case against him; perhaps I should have promulgated a case FOR someone else at the same time.  But it's not like I go around saying "everyone who's not on valpo is crap".  If someone is overrated, I like to take them down a peg or two.  That's just who I am.  (To tie into my last post, perhaps because I'm on the shorter side!)

And of COURSE Milwaukee fans haven't called any of our players overrated, because none of them are, except by us; nor have they started a thread about how our team is having a historically awful season (which is not the same as "labeling a program a joke"), because we just don't do that here.

Any more.

[valporun]

I guess I could compare what Jordan Aaron did in his "coming out party" HL tournament to what David Freeze did in 2011 when he was the man to help the Cardinals win the World Series. He had a great playoff run, but during the regular season, he didn't do anything special to make me or anyone else keep their eyes on him in 2012. He had his moment in the sun, and Jordan Aaron will too, but that's just how the cookie crumbles in playoff time.

[vu72]

Milwaukee gets a 15 which is not unexpected.  Green Bay got a lot of love from the TV guys with two of them including Clarke Kellogg thinking they should have earned an at -large spot. One other interesting thing for me.  The A-10, which Butler left for greener pastures got 6 in the tourney which the Big East got 4.  Should be a great tournament!

[wh]

The A-10 and American Conferences just hit Selection Sunday home runs with the number of entries they received - a big boon for recruiting and revenue.

[VULB#62]

Did the Summit's top team, North Dakota State, after beating IPFW by 3,  deserve a #12 seed?  I keep hearing how inferior the Summit is to the Horizon, yet this year and, I believe last year (14 to our 15th seed), their draw was better in the NCAA tourney.  Why is that?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

13 to 14, but yes, I see your point.

Because the bid isn't a reflection of the league so much as the team.  (Ex:  Stephen F. Austin.)

[historyman]

Did the Summit's top team, North Dakota State, after beating IPFW by 3,  deserve a #12 seed?  I keep hearing how inferior the Summit is to the Horizon, yet this year and, I believe last year (14 to our 15th seed), their draw was better in the NCAA tourney.  Why is that?

The very top team in the Summit was seeded slightly higher than the top team in the HL but only since Butler left the HL. The fact that the HL tourney is so wide open says that the HL teams are grouped a lot closer in talent. The Summit League, OTOH, has a lot of dead weight at the bottom of the league which really has no chance of winning the tournament, which has no byes. 

[VULB#62]

12 is pretty high for a conference champ from a league with only about three decent teams.  Last year, Valpo was the HL regular season champ and tourney champ in a highly competitive league and only got a 14 while SD State got the 13. That does not make sense to me.  Is it too cynical to say that if you spelled Valparaiso B-U-T-L-E-R that that seed would have been much higher.  BTW, USAToday celebrated the fact that Blue III, the Butler mascot, visited Celtic coach Brad Stevens, this week.   Sheesh!

As an aside, I checked back at the 2012-13 schedule before posting.  Wow, what a run.  It is so easy to put in the back of your mind what a great season, game-by-game with a couple of hic cups, we had last year.  It was magical. That season spoiled me as a fan. 

[valpotx]

I believe that NDSU finished with an RPI of 33 (SOS 115), vs. 132 for Milwaukee (SOS 212).  GB finished with a 57 (SOS 140), so probably would have been a 13.  As a conference, the HL finished at 14th, with the Summit at 17th.

[vu72]

Green Bay received a 4 seed in their bracket and will play 5 seed Belmont in the first round.  Should be a very good game and interesting as Belmont has often been mentioned as a good addition to the Horizon.

[valpotx]

I would like to see Belmont in the HL.  I am sure that there will be the usual rumors over the next few months, in regards to conference moves

[bbtds]

I would like to see Belmont in the HL.  I am sure that there will be the usual rumors over the next few months, in regards to conference moves

Belmont doesn't really fit the tight Horizon League footprint. It's 334 miles from Belmont to Wright State which would be Belmont's next closest opponent in the HL. It's 684 miles from Belmont to Green Bay, 565 miles from Belmont to Oakland and 552 miles from Belmont to Youngstown. The longest trip in the current HL from Green Bay to Youngstown is 607 miles.

Belmont's shortest trip in the HL is more than half as long as the longest current trip (GB to YSU) in the HL.

Average HL trip for
Belmont 520 miles times 9 equals 4680 miles
Green Bay 406 miles times 8 equals 3248 miles, add in Belmont-437 miles times 9 equals 3932 miles.
Youngstown State 335 miles times 8 equals 2680, add in Belmont-359 miles times 9 equals 3232 miles.
Valpo 237 miles times 8 equals 1896,add in Belmont-260 miles times 9 equals 2337 miles.
                 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

True, bbtds. Too true. 

Almost two weeks later, let's contemplate the 2014 Panthers.  Forget how awful they were last year--they weren't that special this year, when they couldn't even go .500 in conference play.

But then they went from being 7-9 against HL teams to being 11-9 in a week.  That...is simply impressive.  And they personally took out three of the four teams--against whom they had been 2-4 on the year--ahead of them to do so.

[valpotx]

Yes, it would add mileage, but what other teams in our tight footprint are worth considering, if we have a team poached again?  My main focus is on adding another private school that has basketball success, and generally in our vicinity.  None of the Summit League teams appeal to us anymore, as NDSU/SDSU's ultimate destination is in the Mountain West. 

[a3uge]

Did the Summit's top team, North Dakota State, after beating IPFW by 3,  deserve a #12 seed?  I keep hearing how inferior the Summit is to the Horizon, yet this year and, I believe last year (14 to our 15th seed), their draw was better in the NCAA tourney.  Why is that?

Like LPA said, see SFA. See the new Big East vs the old Big East (AAC). The # of teams and seeds aren't good metrics at evaluating the talent of a conference. The A10 sent 6 teams. The B1G 10 sent 6. Does this make the A10 equal to the B1G? No. The Southland sent a 12 seed. Does this make the conference better than CUSA or the MAC? No. The Southland is a 27th in conference RPI.

The Summit has had 2 very decent teams in the past two years. Last year's SD St team featured Nate Wolters, a guy that's now starting on a (kind of) NBA team and is now 9th on NBA's rookie ladder ahead of guys like Ben McLemore.

This year's ND State team has an outstanding player, Taylor Braun, and wins over Notre Dame, Western Michigan, and Delaware. They're a good mid major team - probably a little under GB. Expecting the Horizon's 5th seeded team, and a team that was under .500 in conference to have a better seed that the Summit is a bit silly. Had the ND St not won, the Summit would've ended with a 15 or 16 seed.

[bbtds]

Yes, it would add mileage, but what other teams in our tight footprint are worth considering, if we have a team poached again?  My main focus is on adding another private school that has basketball success, and generally in our vicinity.  None of the Summit League teams appeal to us anymore, as NDSU/SDSU's ultimate destination is in the Mountain West. 

What it really says is if the HL has the option to add Belmont they need to find a travel partner for the Bruins closer to Nashville than the rest of the HL. Obviously the total miles are not driven because of traveling from places like Cleveland to Youngstown in the same trip and the fact that I didn't include the return trip back to the home campus.

[a3uge]

Yes, it would add mileage, but what other teams in our tight footprint are worth considering, if we have a team poached again?  My main focus is on adding another private school that has basketball success, and generally in our vicinity.  None of the Summit League teams appeal to us anymore, as NDSU/SDSU's ultimate destination is in the Mountain West. 

Exxxaaacctlllyyyy

There's only a certain amount of schools in the Midwest. The MAC is locked in because of football. The 3 conference that cover most of the Midwest are the Summit, Horizon, and MVC. The other Midwest teams (SLU, Marquette) are in better conferences.

There's no more good Midwest schools to take away right now. So what do they do for member 10, or to replace any future defects to the MVC?

Stay put - Choices include IPFW, IUPUI, EIU... Eeeshhh

West: UNO? UMKC? Yeesh.

North: The Dakotas? Brrr...

East: Robert Morris? Warmer.

South: Murray State, Belmont, UNK, EKU... Bingo!

Here's a map I made over the summer:



Expanding towards the south might be the only option if someone leaves. Until then, LeCrone is best served by waiting to see if Northern Kentucky is going to get any better and adding them in a couple years. He's played the conference realignments perfectly. After Butler left (inevitable), we traded Loyola for Oakland. Good thing he didn't panic and add IPFW/IUPUI right away. Over the next 3 years, I can see the HL staying at 9 and if they add a school, it'll be Northern Kentucky, IPFW, or IUPUI. Murray State and Belmont seem happy where they are right now. Murray State enjoys the football, and Belmont just moved.

[Kyle321n]

While not sexy, I wouldn't mind Northern Kentucky.

[classof2014]

If this year wasn't a fluke for IPFW and they turn their program around, they'd be the next team on the HL's radar in terms of expanding.

[a3uge]

If this year wasn't a fluke for IPFW and they turn their program around, they'd be the next team on the HL's radar in terms of expanding.

Yup, no need to rush anything.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

you forgot purdue cal

a3, never get tired of looking at that map.  hats off.

[valpopal]

In addition to other factors in their favor, looking at the map, Northern Kentucky makes the most sense to bring the Horizon League to 10 members, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. Adding Northern Kentucky would create the following pairings of travel partners:

Green Bay-Milwaukee
UIC-Valpo
Oakland-Detroit
Cleveland State-YSU
Wright State-Northern Kentucky

[LaPorteAveApostle]

There you go making sense again

This was kind of the consensus of last summer's thoughts on the matter, was it not?