"Possibly" emerged as Tulsa candidate

[Dave_2010]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  Let's not call SMU a high profile program until they show any type of sustained success.  One season does not a top program make

Any program with Larry Brown on the bench qualifies in my book.

[usc4valpo]

not to mention, SMU has an insane amount of cash to build a great program.  How SMU uses their spending is another issue...

Note that the Tulsa basketball program has had 3 previous coaches who have gone on to bigger successes, such as winning the NCAA title.  There is obviously satisfaction being a champion in a sport, and perhaps this job is a stepping stone to bigger things.

[FWalum]

Bryce's stock right now is about the same as it was last year. His value is in his family and legacy with the NCAA tourney/NBA. Homer and Scott's success pushes Bryce's name up more so than a 20ish win season. Granted a win in the tourney would push it up even more, but until then (as long ad Valpo stays competitive), he'll keep drawing interest from schools like Tulsa. Tulsa would be a step up for Bryce, there's no denying that, and would make for a great stepping stone job, but at Valpo he has incredible stability, is beloved by all, and has very little pressure.

If I was a Tulsa fan, I'd be slow to anoint Bryce just because of his family ties, but at the same time, would be intrigued by his name recognition and his early success at a small private school in a conference full of large public schools.

Absolutely spot on.  Coaches are not just graded on their past years wins and losses but by a myriad of factors. Some would say that Bryce did a better job coaching this year with 4 freshman playing significant minutes than he did last year with 5 Seniors starting.  Bryce has a very high appeal to a niche market of schools along with a broader appeal to many others.  I would add one more "value" to his list and that would be an ability to evaluate and recruit talent, as was shown with this years freshman class.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Coaches are not just graded on their past years wins and losses but by a myriad of factors.

While I would like to believe this, my friend, there are a plethora of names that suggest otherwise. Enfield, Groce, Pearl, everyone that ever coached Xavier on a run, etc.

Just like the girl in HS that, once she suddenly got skinny, was no longer graded by how she looked in junior high...and was no longer seen with the boys she ran with then, either.

Do A.D.s look at more than just hot names?  Of course.

Do they take into consideration who are the hot names at the time?  Of course they do...they're far easier to sell.

[valpotx]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  Let's not call SMU a high profile program until they show any type of sustained success.  One season does not a top program make

Any program with Larry Brown on the bench qualifies in my book.

You obviously haven't followed SMU sports in the last few decades .  Yes, SMU has a ton of money to work with, but that doesn't mean anything, as they have ALWAYS had that money in the last 20 years, and have ALWAYS had one of the top areas to recruit from for any sports talent, being in the DFW area.  Not to mention, it is rare to find an SMU alum that you want to speak with for more than 15 minutes.  Think Ivy League attitude, without the Ivy League credentials .

[ARCInsider]

Coaches are not just graded on their past years wins and losses but by a myriad of factors.

While I would like to believe this, my friend, there are a plethora of names that suggest otherwise. Enfield, Groce, Pearl, everyone that ever coached Xavier on a run, etc.

Just like the girl in HS that, once she suddenly got skinny, was no longer graded by how she looked in junior high...and was no longer seen with the boys she ran with then, either.

Do A.D.s look at more than just hot names?  Of course.

Do they take into consideration who are the hot names at the time?  Of course they do...they're far easier to sell.

I'll give you Enfield...but Groce and Pearl are horrible examples.  Groce was highly successful at Ohio for four years and had the assistant coach pedigree of Ohio St and NC St.  Pearl was insanely successful at both Southern Indiana and Milwaukee before moving to Tennessee.  Pearl had 12 20 win seasons before Tennessee came calling.

[a3uge]

Coaches are not just graded on their past years wins and losses but by a myriad of factors.

While I would like to believe this, my friend, there are a plethora of names that suggest otherwise. Enfield, Groce, Pearl, everyone that ever coached Xavier on a run, etc.

Just like the girl in HS that, once she suddenly got skinny, was no longer graded by how she looked in junior high...and was no longer seen with the boys she ran with then, either.

Do A.D.s look at more than just hot names?  Of course.

Do they take into consideration who are the hot names at the time?  Of course they do...they're far easier to sell.

I'll give you Enfield...but Groce and Pearl are horrible examples.  Groce was highly successful at Ohio for four years and had the assistant coach pedigree of Ohio St and NC St.  Pearl was insanely successful at both Southern Indiana and Milwaukee before moving to Tennessee.  Pearl had 12 20 win seasons before Tennessee came calling.

And Andy Enfield had that hot wife, so it's not like he got that job on based on something trivial like his overall coaching record.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

But do any of them get those jobs without the tourney run?  That's what you have to answer in the affirmative in order to refute the point, and I don't believe you can.

Put another way, then why did it take each of them until that point to get a bigger job?  It all happened RIGHT after their "one shining moment".  Stock soared, they sold high.

Homer was a good coach before '98 happened.  But how often were they calling him before vs. after?

[ARCInsider]

Thank God Scott had that big tourney run or he would have never latched on at Baylor...wait...

[ARCInsider]

Josh Pastner of Memphis also comes to mind.

[ARCInsider]

Obviously a tourney run doesn't hurt in getting some recognition and is a "proof" of success...but as was said earlier, it is one of many factors.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Somehow I knew you'd try to come back with that.

I think we can all agree that the Baylor situation at that time was, ahem, a pretty special case.  If you want to find another team where drug dealing and murder and coverup had gotten the previous coach fired, go ahead and I'll concede.

Besides, it doesn't prove your point, which is that good coaches get jobs because they are good.  Scott had all of one year under his belt.

Good coaches get jobs because not only are they good, at the right time, they have success that puts them ahead of the zillion OTHER good coaches also out there.  If they didn't need an NCAA run to send their stock higher, then they would have gotten the job anyway.

To clinch the argument, look at all these Tulsa coaches.  Self took Tulsa to the Elite 8; left for Illinois.  Speaking of, Tubby knocked off the Illini in the Dance and moved on to Georgia.

The contrary position to mine is that it's basically coincidence that all these coaches get promotions after a tourney run.

Note I'm not saying that said tourney runs MAGICALLY make these coaches better.

Simply, it's what people in a highly competitive field need:  a discernible, tangible edge.   It's not just "one of many"...it's probably the biggest thing.  Should it be?  I don't know. 

But if the goal is to WIN the thing...shouldn't you go with a coach that has had success there?

[ARCInsider]

Craig Neal- New Mexico
Scott Drew- Baylor
Josh Pastner- Memphis
Chris Collins- Northwestern
Kevin Ollie- UCONN (National champs, I think)
Frank Martin- Kansas State (since moved on)
Danny Manning- Tulsa (we know his deal)

Anyways...enough on this topic...but that's a list of high D1 jobs that recently went to coaches with no tourney run or even head coaching experience.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Kevin Ollie- UCONN (National champs, I think)
Frank Martin- Kansas State (since moved on)

um...both of those are like citing Gerald Ford as a support for the argument "you can get elected president out of the House of Representatives!"

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Craig Neal- New Mexico
Josh Pastner- Memphis

...and those are like citing John Tyler and Millard Fillmore as "they were the PRESIDENT!"

[usc4valpo]

Scott Drew had one year as head coach at Valpo.

[ARCInsider]

"Thanks for all of your examples, but none of those count."

[78crusader]

Not enjoying these Drew-to-Tulsa rumors.  No question TU would be a step up. Wonder why Drew hasn't squelched this rumor already if there was nothing to it. With each passing day it seems more likely there is some fire underneath all this smoke.

Paul

[a3uge]

Wonder why Drew hasn't squelched this rumor already if there was nothing to it. With each passing day it seems more likely there is some fire underneath all this smoke.

Paul

Didn't quite work that way for Shaka, and it was even reported on 3 news stations here in Milwaukee that he was leaving.

[zvillehaze]

From the NWI Times:

http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/

[ARCInsider]

Nice article from one of our very own...

[oklahomamick]

Not enjoying these Drew-to-Tulsa rumors.  No question TU would be a step up. Wonder why Drew hasn't squelched this rumor already if there was nothing to it. With each passing day it seems more likely there is some fire underneath all this smoke.

Paul

Relax....My source told me Bryce will not be coming home to Tulsa.  He is currently on the TU basketball staff and just got promoted as Danny left.  We texted yesterday and he confirmed that Bryce is safe at Valpo.  The source in time will most likely be the next head coach at TU the next go around, and should be.  He's just not ready yet.  I'm not getting this from a fan forum or the Tulsa World.  I got it from a friend that is on the staff. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Thanks, Mick.  That's quality reporting right there.  (Helps that I like the result though too.)

Obviously the story had little to no merit, as it acknowledged like half a dozen bigger names that were already known to be candidates, and even admitted itself to be highly speculative.

It's funny because stories like this always reveal more about us--each of us and who we are--than about Bryce or the University of Tulsa, etc.

[valpotx]

The one job I think would be perfect for Bryce in a few years is TCU, if it ever comes available again.  They are absolutely terrible at basketball, even taking LSU's HC a few seasons ago with little success so far.  It is a faith-based university (where I received my MBA ), has a TON of money, is in the Big 12, and is in the recruiting hotbed for all sports, in DFW (Fort Worth).  If you look at their all-time basketball records, you have to go back to the Lee Nailon days for any real success, and I know you Indiana residents love hearing his name.  He can put his stamp on a program, in the exact same way that Scott has done at Baylor.  It would also allow Homer and Janet to move down to Texas, as Fort Worth and Waco are within a few hours of each other.

[Valpo89]

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/bryce-drew-to-remain-with-crusaders-putting-to-rest-interview/article_5dae86a6-db2c-5613-a93c-c7593770d42a.html

End of thread.
Good job Paul Oren.