Opponents Non Conference Schedule

[zvillehaze]

The HL really needs to come out with a scheduling mandate and hold schools accountable.  If all 9 HL teams scheduled as irresponsibly as Oakland, we would be ranked between 25-30 as a conference instead of being ranked between 11-14 regularly.   YSU promised the HL they would put more of their funding into basketball prior to their invite to the HL.  They never followed through.  Oakland promised to tone down their scheduling and now they are backing out of that agreement.  I'm sick of this BS from new members.  We don't need members that aren't willing to do what is in the best interest of the entire conference.  The HL needs to establish a league wide scheduling policy.  Don't follow our scheduling policy 1 year, you get a pass.  Second offense results in you loosing your share of the HL's NCAA tournament money.  3rd offense and you aren't eligible for the league tournament that year.  4th offense and the HL can choose to kick you out of the conference.   

I agree in general, but have a question.  Most scheduling guidelines prevent teams from playing non-DI schools or very weak DI schools ... how do you prevent teams from scheduling too many upper level DI teams (like Oakland seems to do)?  Do any leagues currently have something like this in place?  Just wondering.

I'm sure this is a sensitive topic as HL teams always struggle to get quality home games and many (like Oakland) view taking buy-games against big time opponents as a way to fund their basketball programs (and entire athletic programs).  But as BigD and others point out, until the league puts something in place, teams will continue to schedule the way that best benefits their own program.

[justducky]

The HL needs to establish a league wide scheduling policy.  Don't follow our scheduling policy 1 year, you get a pass.  Second offense results in you loosing your share of the HL's NCAA tournament money.  3rd offense and you aren't eligible for the league tournament that year.  4th offense and the HL can choose to kick you out of the conference.   

I agree with Big D.

I...I'm gonna go lie down for a bit.

The first and most important step would be the choice of an open minded, independent thinking panel of school representatives whose stated goal is the strengthening of HL RPI. Next up is the establishment of a consensus opinion on how best this goal can be achieved followed then by a timetable for implementation. The severity of the penalties might need some adjustment but teeth are required and all member institutions need to be equally under the gun.

Before the HL sinks any further in its current every man for himself mode we all need to choose a common direction and start swimming towards it.

[Big D]

I agree in general, but have a question.  Most scheduling guidelines prevent teams from playing non-DI schools or very weak DI schools ... how do you prevent teams from scheduling too many upper level DI teams (like Oakland seems to do)?  Do any leagues currently have something like this in place?  Just wondering.

The A-10 and MVC both have rules that would take care of this.  The A-10 prohibits members from being bought to play games on the road.  The MVC wants their member teams to play at least 50% of their OOC games at home.  Neither is allowed to play non D1 teams.  The HL could tweak those to suit our purpose.  I think we should have 3 basic scheduling rules to start with.  1.  We play an all D1 schedule.  2.  We play at least 50% of our OOC games at home on average.  (teams need to meet this criteria 2 out of 3 years or 3 out of 5 years).  3.  You can only play 3 road buy games a year. 

If teams want to play a few buy games vs BCS schools you can but rules 1 and 2 would mean that you have to buy 3 D1 teams to play at home to keep your schedule balanced.  It would encourage teams to play in more tournaments to get a chance to play BCS schools on a neutral court or trying to get true home/homes and 2 for 1s with BCS schools instead of just playing buy games.

[a3uge]

Hilarious that Oakland's scheduling is a huge problem, but Wright State's isnt. I've never heard of a conference putting requirements to have teams put together a weaker SOS. I had no idea that it's a good strategy to have a team with 19 wins finish +150 RPI. Do you honestly think Detroit's schedule bogged down the Horizon just as much as Oakland's? No. Oakland's SOS, while stupid for them, did not hurt the HL as much as Detroit's because their opponent's opponent's W/L record was high enough to elevate their RPI. Playing a pathetic OOC schedule is not good for Wright State or the Horizon league no matter how much you want to believe it's all Oakland's fault for the league's overall conference RPI being down. Conference RPI is literally the average of each team's RPI. Oakland wasn't projected to finish 2nd with a number of 1st place votes. Wright State was. And what happened? Wright State ended the season with a +150 RPI despite having 19 wins. The absolute garbage scheduling doomed Wright State, a decent team, from breaking in the top 100 RPI, something which the Horizon League runner up should be in.

The constant references to playing an all D1 schedule is hilarious. Had you played a D2 school instead of North Carolina A&T, you would've had a better RPI EVEN IF YOU WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME.

[VULB#62]

I think by inference that Big D is saying the same thing, whether it be suicidal buy games that result in bad losses or cupcake schedules that don't shore up the RPI for a team or the conference as a whole.  It sounds to me that he's including all HL teams, Wright State too, in the argument about quality of schedule standards that to this point are absent.  In that respect, along with LAA, I have to agree with him.

[Big D]

Hilarious that Oakland's scheduling is a huge problem, but Wright State's isnt. I've never heard of a conference putting requirements to have teams put together a weaker SOS. I had no idea that it's a good strategy to have a team with 19 wins finish +150 RPI. Do you honestly think Detroit's schedule bogged down the Horizon just as much as Oakland's? No. Oakland's SOS, while stupid for them, did not hurt the HL as much as Detroit's because their opponent's opponent's W/L record was high enough to elevate their RPI. Playing a pathetic OOC schedule is not good for Wright State or the Horizon league no matter how much you want to believe it's all Oakland's fault for the league's overall conference RPI being down. Conference RPI is literally the average of each team's RPI. Oakland wasn't projected to finish 2nd with a number of 1st place votes. Wright State was. And what happened? Wright State ended the season with a +150 RPI despite having 19 wins. The absolute garbage scheduling doomed Wright State, a decent team, from breaking in the top 100 RPI, something which the Horizon League runner up should be in.

The constant references to playing an all D1 schedule is hilarious. Had you played a D2 school instead of North Carolina A&T, you would've had a better RPI EVEN IF YOU WOULD HAVE WON THE GAME.

It's hilarious that you keep beating the same dead horse.  I have clearly stated that WSU needs to play a tougher schedule.  My exact quote in this thread was...I have said in the past and I will repeat it here again, I don't like the way my team scheduled last year.  The HL needs to come up with a true scheduling model to prevent teams from scheduling like my team did or the way Oakland continues to schedule.  You just choose to ignore that.  You also keep ignoring the fact that playing a low major is better for your RPI than a D2 school WHEN THE ENTIRE CONFERENCE DOES IT because it has an accumulative effect on every team's RPI.   I laid that out pretty clearly on the last page using the AAC as an example. 

[VULB#62]

What's the phrase?  A rising tide floats all boats?  This is such a case, but the tide ain't rising.

I think we all agree on this topic.  The HL Commissioner and whomever the leadership is, has to come to grips with the fact that the HL is languishing in a form of mediocrity that is self-inflicted.  It's due to a failure to be proactive and assertive on the issue of conference schools adhering to an appropriate scheduling standard that all schools must follow or suffer some consequences.

Unless action is taken soon, the world will pass us by, and this league will be forever thought of as a 1 bid pony no matter what it does further down the road. 

We see these things.  Why don't the ADs and Presidents?  But where do we posters go from here?  Light the torches and assault the HL citadel?  Make up signs and picket the HL office?  Draw up a petition?

[StlVUFan]

My only concern is the pain involved.  It'd be fine with me, if I could be convinced that it is doable for each team.  There's a fairly decent reason why D-III and low-major games appear on teams' schedules, and there's a fairly decent reason why sacrificial lamb games are on teams' schedules.

And the reason in each case is the same: IT'S DAMN HARD TO FILL UP YOUR SCHEDULE COMPLETELY WITH THE IDEAL GAMES THAT BENEFIT YOUR W-L RECORD, YOUR RPI, AND YOUR CONFERENCE.

I think it's an outstanding goal.  I just worry that it's going to turn out -- in the HL at least -- as the sports analog of an army general shooting deserting soldiers because they're fighting a losing war badly.

Are these requirements you lay out REALLY realistic, BigDWSU?

I will say that if things continue to progress the way they are, there's a chance they will be come much more realistic, since the Power schools really seem to want to have less and less contact with us mosquitoes.  It's going to take all the mosquitoes *getting that* and saying, "Well then, to hell with you too."  Right now, I don't see that happening yet.

It's going to take a movement, and it's going to take a lot of sacrifice, and I'm not sure inflicting harsh punishment along the way is the way to go.  But then, maybe there's no other way, I don't know.

[Big D]

Are these requirements you lay out REALLY realistic, BigDWSU?

The A-10 announced their scheduling policy in 2007.  The MVC announced theirs the year before in 2006.  If you really go back and look at those conferences before that they really weren't much different than the HL.  The MVC and HL used to flip back and forth between who was ranked higher the decade before that.  I believe those conferences drawing a line in the sand and saying this is how we are going to do things was the catalyst that elevated them to become consistent top 10 conferences while our decisions have made us flounder. 

Are these requirements realistic?  The answer to that is obviously yes.  Those conferences have already shown that it can be done.   The real question is--does the HL want to take that next step up the ladder because if we are going to move up the ladder in conference rankings we are going to have to start making some hard decisions that will most likely effect our finances in the short term.  Playing less buy games on the road is going to take revenue out of our pockets.  Paying D1 teams to play at our arenas instead of D2 teams is going to cost us more money.   In the long run we will start coming up with better schedules which will bring in more paying fans to games and better TV contracts which will offset those losses.   

[StlVUFan]

All I can say is: I completely understand the hesitancy to take those bold steps, because it is a really hard choice to make.

[wh]

YSU OOC schedule

http://www.ysusports.com/sports/mbkb/2014-15/releases/non-league-announcement

Complete garbage...

YSU never ceases to disappoint.  Unfortunately, they're like bad teachers with tenure; we're stuck with 'em.

[vu72]

some good, some REALLY bad!  Wilberforce?? 

[wh]

This may be the worst D-1 OOC schedule in the country this year:

Opponent/Last Year's RPI
119 Robert Morris
87 Eastern Michigan
147 Texas A&M
133 Illinois State
212 Kent State
303 UNC Greensboro
254 UMKC
259 South Dakota
310 Northern Kentucky
294 Central Michigan
336 Longwood
325 Kennesaw State

Avg.Opp.RPI 232---1 Top 100 Opp.(barely)---4 Top 150 Opp's.---7 Opp's. >250

And for good measure - 3 non D-1 opponents.

For those who think scheduling is hard, think again.  Putting together a HARD schedule is hard.  I could contract these teams on my lunch hour.  This schedule is the epitome of laziness.  Is this conference ever going to wake up and put some rules in place, or is the conference office as lazy as this schedule?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

"Our staff has done a tremendous job putting together another challenging schedule for the 2014-15 season," Slocum said. "Each season we attempt to piece together a schedule that prepares us for Horizon League play, which improves every year, and I think we've done that."

[a3uge]

This may be the worst D-1 OOC schedule in the country this year:

Opponent/Last Year's RPI
92 Robert Morris
127 Eastern Michigan
152 Texas A&M
159 Illinois State
180 Kent State
245 UNC Greensboro
268 UMKC
274 South Dakota
293 Northern Kentucky
301 Central Michigan
339 Longwood
340 Kennesaw State

Avg.Opp.RPI 231---1 Top 100 Opp.(barely)---2 Top 150 Opp's.---7 Opp's. 245 or higher

And for good measure - 3 non D-1 opponents.

For those who think scheduling is hard, think again.  Putting together a HARD schedule is hard.  I could contract these teams on my lunch hour.  This schedule is the epitome of laziness.  Is this conference ever going to wake up and put some rules in place, or is the conference office as lazy as this schedule?

Looks like a lot more wins. If only they replaced their 3 non-D1 games with Lamar, Citadel, and Binghamton, they'd have even more.

[Pathfinder]

Eastern Michigan had an 87 RPI rank last year. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi

YSU's schedule still sucks.

[wh]

Eastern Michigan had an 87 RPI rank last year. http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-rpi

YSU's schedule still sucks.

I was looking at W/L rank rather than RPI rank. I fixed it in my original. Their overall Opp. RPI actually increased by 1 afteraking the adjustments. Plus, now 7 of their 12 D-1 opponents have an RPI >250, even worse than I originally noted.

[EddieCabot]

Milwaukee schedule released:

http://www.uwmpanthers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/090314aab.html

[historyman]

Milwaukee schedule released:

http://www.uwmpanthers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/090314aab.html

I see they have not released the conference part of the schedule. I guess that isn't as important to the Panthers this year.

Wonder if they are expecting Belmont to show up on the conference schedule.

[vu72]

Kind of a mixed result.  Five name opponents but 3 non-D1 and a couple of D1 cupcakes.

[valporun]

Where is this "Panther Arena" located? Why have the Montana game at Klotsche, while playing Minnesota-Crookston and Concordia-St. Paul at this "Panther Arena"? Plus, why leave Klotsche this year, when the team can't do anything for the conference or NCAA tournament, but be a pain in the butt to the RPI, while being academically ineligible for postseason play? I mean they can't do anything more than keep a good team out of a good seed by beating the top HL teams, while not having a chance to return to the NCAA tourney.

[historyman]

Where is this "Panther Arena" located? Why have the Montana game at Klotsche, while playing Minnesota-Crookston and Concordia-St. Paul at this "Panther Arena"? Plus, why leave Klotsche this year, when the team can't do anything for the conference or NCAA tournament, but be a pain in the butt to the RPI, while being academically ineligible for postseason play? I mean they can't do anything more than keep a good team out of a good seed by beating the top HL teams, while not having a chance to return to the NCAA tourney.

Panther Arena is simply the new name for the off campus downtown arena that UWM has been using. It's former name was US Cellular Arena and way back when the Bucks were playing there it was called the MECCA or Milwaukee Arena. The new official name is University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Panther Arena.

http://www5.uwm.edu/news/2014/06/26/arena/#.VAgdi1ko7cc

[a3uge]

Where is this "Panther Arena" located? Why have the Montana game at Klotsche, while playing Minnesota-Crookston and Concordia-St. Paul at this "Panther Arena"? Plus, why leave Klotsche this year, when the team can't do anything for the conference or NCAA tournament, but be a pain in the butt to the RPI, while being academically ineligible for postseason play? I mean they can't do anything more than keep a good team out of a good seed by beating the top HL teams, while not having a chance to return to the NCAA tourney.

Panther Arena is simply the new name for the off campus downtown arena that UWM has been using. It's former name was US Cellular Arena and way back when the Bucks were playing there it was called the MECCA or Milwaukee Arena. The new official name is University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Panther Arena.

http://www5.uwm.edu/news/2014/06/26/arena/#.VAgdi1ko7cc

Where is this "Panther Arena" located? Why have the Montana game at Klotsche, while playing Minnesota-Crookston and Concordia-St. Paul at this "Panther Arena"? Plus, why leave Klotsche this year, when the team can't do anything for the conference or NCAA tournament, but be a pain in the butt to the RPI, while being academically ineligible for postseason play? I mean they can't do anything more than keep a good team out of a good seed by beating the top HL teams, while not having a chance to return to the NCAA tourney.

Yeah UWM bought the naming rights just this last year for the arena. They will also rebrand the arena for UWM (black and gold seats, etc). US Cell's contract with the arena ended and they didn't renew.  That arena doesn't really have any other tenants... Maybe an indoor soccer team and occasional roller derby. Its downtown, across from the Bradley Center where the Bucks and Marquette play, but it's 5 miles from campus. It might get torn down when the new arena is built, but probably not.

The Klotsche is their impossible to find on-campus arena. Two years ago their agreement with the downtown arena ended and they played every home game in the on campus arena. Turns out, even less students went to games, and alumni also stopped going (its a huge school). The new A.D. took over and signed a new contract with the downtown arena and bought the naming rights a year later. UWM was playing downtown last year, not at their on campus arena.

UWM has always played 1-2 games at the on campus arena because of scheduling conflicts and to gather on campus support. Student attendance increases about 300% when these games are played on campus (6-7 students).

[valporun]

I do remember UWM playing a non D-1 game or two at the Klotsche Center because they knew it wouldn't be a huge draw, but I didn't know about the arena naming rights deal and such, which is why I was so confused. Thanks for the input!

[wh]

  Every team in the HL needs to start scheduling games against teams they can beat.  If you can beat BCS schools great, but if you can't you at least need to be scheduling and winning games that can help the rest of the conference.   I have said in the past and I will repeat it here again, I don't like the way my team scheduled last year.  The HL needs to come up with a true scheduling model to prevent teams from scheduling like my team did or the way Oakland continues to schedule.   If we want to take the next step as a conference we need to find a happy medium that makes sense for the conference.

I came across this article that completely supports Big D's contention.  It goes back a few years but it's still applicable to the discussion we were having about the damage Oakland is doing to the conference by scheduling opponents it absolutely has no chance to beat:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sports/tigers/mens-basketball/c-usa-fine-tuning-rpi

"C-USA needs to elevate the bottom of their league, and they can start by going out and playing teams they can beat," Palm said. "A lot of people think that RPI is three-fourths strength of schedule, so if you want to get better, you have to go out and play better teams even if you lose. That's not necessarily true. It's just like everything else, winning is going to help you more than anything, even if you have to play somebody not as good to win.

"A team like Rice, if they play a bunch of (BCS conference teams) and go 3-9, it's an anchor dragging everybody down. If the bottom half of your league is all doing that, it's hard for anybody to build up your RPI, and your league schedule is 60 percent of your schedule. If Rice goes out and plays much worse teams but goes 9-3, they're still not going to do well in the league because they're still rebuilding, but it's better for the league. Everybody's boat floats."


Oakland's 3-10 D-1 OOC record includes predestined losses to 6 teams: Iowa State, Michigan State, Arizona, Pittsburgh, Clemson and Maryland. From now to the end of the season every conference opponent's RPI will suffer more than it should with every game against Oakland.  Remember, 50% of the RPI calculation is your opponent's winning percentage. 

The league office needs to force Oakland to quit prostituting itself for $85,000 paydays and get on board with the rest of the league.  Who knows, they might even find that if they win a few more games and schedule a few more home games, they could generate enough revenue through ticket sales to be able to quit pimping themselves out.  But like I said sometime back, it takes a lot more effort to find teams to come into your place than it does to put an ad in the scheduling service that says, "Looking for big payday to play at your place; guaranteed win; date and time at your convenience."

Nothing sickens me more than tuning into an Oakland "payday" game and hear some broadcaster regurgitate the tired Kampe mantra about how they aren't afraid to play anybody, how the players like playing these games (and getting their brains beat out), and how playing these games better prepares them for conference (which history doesn't support).  Kampe isn't some creative genius with a winning scheduling formula that everyone else in the mid major world is too dumb to figure out.  He's just a guy that likes hobnobbing with the big boys, make some easy money that keeps his AD happy, and avoid putting any effort into lining up potentially winnable games against challenging opponents.  When Oakland was in the Mid Con/Summit, this was all cute stuff because none of it mattered.  Well, it matters now, and it isn't cute any more.