Lacrosse anyone?

[VULB#62]

This article was published in the NWI Times recently and underscores the use of lacrosse as a way to attract students and increase revenue to the schools mentioned.  One theme is that whether the school is D-I or D-III, the lacrosse pool of students is a new source to mine.  Most of the schools that are going in this direction are D-II and D-III.  Names mentioned:  DePauw, Wabash, Indianapolis.

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/private-schools-add-lacrosse-to-attract-students/article_ed02ec5b-8c9b-5e4f-9223-a2403782e534.html

These other articles focus on the same strategy.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/lacrosse_is_the_new_recruiting.html

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-04-04/liberal-arts-colleges-lacrosse-students/54002080/1

Running with the articles' premise, as a D-I university, Valpo would have to run a 'scholarship' program, but the D-I max is 12.6 men and 12.0 women which can be divided among all players - if at all.  Lacrosse teams typically carry 33-60 players.  So......  even with a full compliment of scholarships (not required by NCAA), if each program brought in 44 kids, that's 88 additional students @ ~ $45K, that generates $3.96 million, less the cost of scholarships (24.6 X $45K = $1.1 million) leaves $2.86 million in new revenue.  If the cost of operations and travel of both a men's and a women's program (probably need to add both for Title IX reasons) was, say, $1.0 million, that still leaves $1.86 million in new revenue annually.  With zero scholarships, it's a net of $2.96 million.

And the playing facility (Brown Field) is already in place and would only need another set of lines painted on it.  Locker space is a different issue. It's an all-weather sport so no cancellations.

Worth discussing?

[vu72]

The first thing to consider is the same one concerning football.  The players (at least 94%) receive financial aid.  The total budget for next year for a student is close to 48,000, all in--tuition, room and board, books, fees etc.  However the office of financial aid has this on their webpage:

Please note also that more than 94 percent of all students receive financial aid, and the average financial aid package is in the $29,000 range.

With that in mind, using a figure of about $20-25,000 net revenue per new student (before athletic scholarships) might be closer to the true number.

[okinawatyphoon]

I'm all for adding new sports, especially niche sports. I think we've seen great success with our bowling program as we bring in high quality ladies and get our name out there in ways we haven't before. I'd rather see us pursue a hockey team, but that is pretty much a pipe dream given the costs.

[78crusader]

If we want to attract more and better students, wouldn't it make more sense to focus our efforts on a new nursing building, a Fieldhouse, a new science building, at least two more new dorms, an improved old campus, a remodeled ARC, and a larger endowment?  Plus I seem to remember that of the Horizon league schools, we already offer more sports than just about anyone else.

Paul

[cornonthe]

If we want to attract more and better students, wouldn't it make more sense to focus our efforts on a new nursing building, a Fieldhouse, a new science building, at least two more new dorms, an improved old campus, a remodeled ARC, and a larger endowment?  Plus I seem to remember that of the Horizon league schools, we already offer more sports than just about anyone else.

Paul

Jeez...did you swing your cane around whilst yelling, "get off my lawn" while saying that. With that said, anything that brings in MONEY is fine with me. To answer the Title IX question...we have one more women's sport right now, so we could add just men's lacrosse and not have to add women's lacrosse. As for hockey...I'd LOVE to see both men's and women's, but it's REALLY, REALLY expensive...there would have to be a huge endowment from someone, like at Penn State...plus where to play??? I guess adding a refrigeration unit or two to the ARC would work...there should be enough seating to be over the 2,500 minimum seating requirements...wish I had 80 million lying around, I'd fund the program...and I'd move back to Valpo to watch them play...LOL!!!

[valpotx]

Title IX isn't about total sports being equal for men and women, but total athletic scholarships, I believe.

[usc4valpo]

Lacrosse is a nice idea, but hockey would be a serious "game changer" for the athletic program.  It is a pricey proposition,  but it's a sport that is growing in popularity in the states, and is most certainly popular in the Chicagoland area.   Also, hockey can add Canadian student athletes, contributing to the international diversity initiative.

Yes, I know this will not happen and I am dreaming. An indoor ice rink would also provide a great exercise alternative for the student body.

[valpo95]

This may be a dumb question, but does Valpo currently have club lacrosse teams?

Many schools seem to first have club teams in non-athletics department sports, then upgrade later.

[VULB#62]

There was a previous string where we debated, at considerable length I recall, adding hockey/lacrosse/synchronized swimming (joking).  And that got beaten to death.  However, my point in starting this new string was two-fold based on the accompanying articles (which I hope posters have read before adding their thoughts):

(A.)  A way for VU to bring in a significant number of new students from an untapped pool and, therefore, increase gross revenue
(B.)  A sport that can contribute to that strategy at a minimal investment so as to increase net revenue

While hockey (assuming you bring in both a men's and women's team -- again a title IX issue, which, BTW I believe, is not based on scholarships per se but equal "opportunity," because Title IX applies to D-III schools as well), with maybe 50-60 new students, will address (A.), it does not satisfy (B.) because the startup cost (equipment alone is considerable and there is no on-campus facility readily available).  Taking all of that into account, IMO, that would probably put it in the negative revenue column.

Lacrosse, on the other hand, would bring in more students (80-90) and has a more modest equipment investment -- basically helmets, sticks, a couple of pads and some shoes plus uniforms for the men and the same for women minus the helmets.  And, as mentioned earlier, no investment in facilities.

The first thing to consider is the same one concerning football.  The players (at least 94%) receive financial aid.  The total budget for next year for a student is close to 48,000, all in--tuition, room and board, books, fees etc.  However the office of financial aid has this on their webpage:

Please note also that more than 94 percent of all students receive financial aid, and the average financial aid package is in the $29,000 range.

With that in mind, using a figure of about $20-25,000 net revenue per new student (before athletic scholarships) might be closer to the true number.

72 you bring up a good point on financial aid and I do not know how that is handled.  It might decrease the net directly, or, because it is  taken from a separate source does not impact the net "on paper."  But that would be true for any increase in students regardless of where they came from.  But, you're right, it is a factor that would have to be considered when 'running the numbers" to see if there is feasibility here.

If we want to attract more and better students, wouldn't it make more sense to focus our efforts on a new nursing building, a Fieldhouse, a new science building, at least two more new dorms, an improved old campus, a remodeled ARC, and a larger endowment?  Plus I seem to remember that of the Horizon league schools, we already offer more sports than just about anyone else.

Paul, all of the above certainly would help to attract students, but at incredible cost, borrowing, etc. over a very long period of time.  But this is a case for adding a sport to add students, regardless of how many sports we already have.  Typhoon, hit the nail on the head.  It was almost like out of nowhere, VU had a Bowling Team and it has added positively to the university profile with minimal cost for startup and operation.  While more costly in terms of start-up costs for Lacrosse, it could be instituted in a single year with no construction or rental costs for operations.

[VULB#62]

This may be a dumb question, but does Valpo currently have club lacrosse teams?

Many schools seem to first have club teams in non-athletics department sports, then upgrade later.

I do not believe they do.  It is not listed on the athletics web site and the VU site has this:


Club Sports
Join an established club sport that may range from badminton to ultimate Frisbee. If you crave extramural competition, this could be the choice for you. Some clubs travel to other campuses; some compete in off-campus tournaments; some don't. Interested in Club Sports? Check out each team's page on the Club section of IMLeagues.com.

Men's Ultimate Frisbee
Women's Ultimate Frisbee
Men's Soccer
Women's Soccer
Tennis
Swimming

Having added that above, yes, it would seem prudent to start a lacrosse program off as a funded club first, because the team would consist of almost all freshmen with maybe some xfers and JC players.  The schedule would probably start off with D-III and D-II teams (though they wouldn't be cream puffs) and not gain varsity status for maybe a year or two.

[valpotx]

I was meaning to say athletic opportunities needed to be equal as well, not just scholarships, my bad.  It has nothing to do with the number of sports being equal, but rather that the total number of athletes represented in the athletic program need to be representative of the student population (men vs. women).

[VULB#62]

Yeah, when you have a large roster sport like FB on the male side, you need an equally large female roster sport or more smaller roster sports to balance it.  That's why in the past schools wound up dropping a lot of men's non-revenue sports to create that balance.   

[okinawatyphoon]

I think I've brought this up before, but I think it bears repeating -- what about a rowing team? We're close to Lake Michigan and have plentiful lakes in the area. A rowing team would have relatively low startup costs and allow us to compete against elite schools out east that we don't compete against in other sports. Notre Dame and IU have rowing teams but I'm not sure where they compete. Thoughts?

[VULB#62]

I think I've brought this up before, but I think it bears repeating -- what about a rowing team? We're close to Lake Michigan and have plentiful lakes in the area. A rowing team would have relatively low startup costs and allow us to compete against elite schools out east that we don't compete against in other sports. Notre Dame and IU have rowing teams but I'm not sure where they compete. Thoughts?

Crew is a wonderful sport.  Most of the regattas are in the spring.  My son went to Colby College in Maine where they had varsity women's and men's crew.  As an example, the Colby rosters have 28 men and 38 women participating, so the numbers are good for enrollment increase.  On the other hand, the shells are pretty expensive, but used ones are available as teams upgrade. The trick would be to find a calm stretch of fairly straight water on which to row -- NOT Lake Michigan.  There's shell storage near the rowing location to factor in too. Travel requires a truck and trailer for the shells in addition to charter busses.

A college rowing database lists a total of 179 schools in the country with rowing programs. 25 are in the midwest (MN, WI, IL, IN, OH, KY IA, MI).  A cursory look at these schools' rowing profiles show many have varsity women's programs and men's club programs. Many of the 179 only have rowing clubs.  As you indicated, the majority of programs are in the east -- much the same as lacrosse    IU has a varsity women's program and men's club program.  UND - same.

Here's the link if you want more detailed info:

http://rowingdb.sparksconsult.com

[historyman]

Actually it was a Dutch citizen that was on the IU women's rowing team that was one of the passengers that died in the Malaysian Airliner shot down over the Ukraine/Russian border recently.

[VULB#62]

   That's a downer.



But as an aside for anyone who would like to find out more on the cost involved and some other issues, here's an article:

Collegiate Rowing:  Its Costs, Popularity & Growth
http://www.bhfinder.com/Articles/Details/Collegiate-Rowing-Its-Costs-Popularity-Growth.html

[sliman]

Yeah, when you have a large roster sport like FB on the male side, you need an equally large female roster sport or more smaller roster sports to balance it.  That's why in the past schools wound up dropping a lot of men's non-revenue sports to create that balance.   

I believe Butler had a lacrosse team for several years, but dropped it.  Not sure if it was due to gender balance issues, cost, interest or all the these and more.

[FWalum]

Concordia Lutheran High School has Crew.  Here is a picture of them competing in the Head of the Eagle Regatta in Indianapolis' Eagle Creek Park. Many of the Midwest Crew teams/clubs compete at this event including a number of the Big Ten schools.

[Dave_2010]

Though I don't understand the finer points of the game, I find lacrosse highly entertaining and usually find myself watching the NCAA championship every spring. It also clearly has arrived in the Midwest (if ohio state, michigan, and nd all sponsor a sport, you know it is on the rise in the region).

I do have some concerns about cost though, especially where the startup money will come from. The university has been making significant athletic investments over the last 10 years and donor fatigue is a serious concern. With basketball being basketball, football getting a new investment push, and baseball/softball on the rise, I just don't see the money, especially with the non-athletic investments on the priority list.

I fear that something will suffer in the name of adding a new sport. I hope I'm wrong though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bbtds]

This article was published in the NWI Times recently and underscores the use of lacrosse as a way to attract students and increase revenue to the schools mentioned.  One theme is that whether the school is D-I or D-III, the lacrosse pool of students is a new source to mine.  Most of the schools that are going in this direction are D-II and D-III.  Names mentioned:  DePauw, Wabash, Indianapolis.

Interesting. I happened upon a UIndy men's lacrosse practice at the football practice field off Hanna Ave. recently. It had me puzzled thinking why would a local high school need to borrow the practice field at UIndy until I read this post.

[vu72]

Interesting mention of possible Lacrosse program at Valpo in the future:

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/valparaiso/vu-finally-takes-possession-of-former-hospital-site/article_68c17e54-da5b-5405-9b57-aafbac960d0e.html

[VULB#62]

Good catch 72.   

Just the mention by a university executive is an indication that the idea must have been bounced around in decision-making circles.  As I mentioned when I started the string, start-up costs are relatively reasonable given the number of potential new students (both male and female) it might attract for admissions and for increasing enrollment.

[okinawatyphoon]

They are converting the clinic to the new Nursing building? I don't know much about that building, but a quick look on Google Maps makes that building look smaller than Lebien Hall.    Other than that, I'm excited at the prospect of Lacrosse and hope the University takes the possibility seriously.

[sliman]

No way does the existing building on the hospital property become the College of Nursing and Applied Health (is that the new name?).  It's far too small to house the college, but would seem to be suitable for overflow space for offices and possibly a couple of classrooms.  As for lacrosse, does anyone know why Butler dropped it?  As I recall, one reason for starting it was to increase the appeal to students from the east coast but it was dropped after several years.

[IndyValpo]

They provided little detail but here it is....



Men's lacrosse and men's swimming teams to be eliminated


Jan. 26, 2007

Butler University, Friday, Jan. 26, announced it will discontinue its men's swimming and lacrosse teams effective June 1. Athletic Director Barry Collier recommended the elimination of the two teams after spending several months analyzing the athletic program. Butler President Bobby Fong approved the decision.

"This action has been taken in order to focus our efforts and seek success in our remaining 19 sports," Collier said. "We are committed to the Butler Way, the success of our sponsored programs and the best possible student-athlete experience."

Members of the lacrosse team will have their scholarships honored through their senior year. Swimming is a non-scholarship sport at Butler.

Even with the elimination of the two teams, Butler will still have more teams then all other schools in the Horizon League, the league in which most Butler teams compete. The average number of teams at universities in the Horizon League is 16.

The men's swimming team is a member of the Horizon League. Butler's lacrosse team competes in the Great Western Lacrosse League.

"Intercollegiate athletics is an integral part of Butler University's commitment to educational excellence," Fong said. "As previously noted by our Board of Trustees, 'We shall strive for quality in all that we do, being selective in our offerings, realizing that we cannot be all things to all people.' "

Q&A

Q: What are you doing to assist the affected student-athletes? A: The continued well being of the affected student-athletes is our primary focus. Butler will honor all existing scholarship commitments. The student-athletes will continue to have access to the same services available to other varsity athletes including academic services and athletic training. This announcement has taken place now to give the affected student-athletes as much time as possible to make decisions regarding their future.

Q: How did you arrive at this decision? A: The decision to discontinue men's swimming and lacrosse at Butler University was made with careful consideration. This action is being taken to help ensure the long-term stability of the Department of Athletics and in the best interests of approximately 400 Butler student-athletes.

Q: Why lacrosse? Why men's swimming? A: The decision to discontinue lacrosse and men's swimming was made as a result of a total review of the athletic department. Included in the review was information gathered internally and an external comparative report of peer institutions. This comprehensive review uncovered the need to focus our efforts to ensure greater stability for the entire department.

Q: Will there be further cuts of remaining sports? A: We don't anticipate any further cuts. Through the focusing of our efforts we believe that each of the student-athletes and our remaining 19 sports will be better served.

Q: What will happen to the money saved? A: Money from scholarships, salaries and operating funds will be reallocated to the university's 19 teams.

Q: How do we compare with peer institutions when it comes to athletics? A: Even with two fewer teams, we still have more teams then all the schools in the Horizon League. The average number of teams for universities in the Horizon League is 16. We have 19.

Q: How long have we had men's swimming and lacrosse at Butler? A: Butler began lacrosse in 1993. Butler has had a men's swimming team since 1928.