Game #2 - St. Joe's Pumas

[historyman]

Sounds like historyman needs to take a step back from the ledge.

You probably got some great excuses for this Valpo football team also.

Help me get off the ledge. What positives can VU fans take from this 21 point loss to St Joe that will give me any hope that this Valpo team is moving in any way in a positive direction.

[VUDad]

So far, looks a lot like last year's offense--little from rushing, big numbers from short passes, great yards between our 20 and their 40, no points so who cares, and an easy team to defend against because plays happen in front of the defense. And our defense? I'm at a loss...

[vu72]

Hope the coach is willing to make changes. Without some big ones, the team will remain stuck. A very winnable game was lost.

OK, don't leave us hanging.  What changes did you have in mind?

[usc4valpo]

historyman,


Please forgive me for the excuses. That is not my style, but this dude has coached for 2 games.  If you are going to give Carlson 4 years to win 3 games, I will give Cecchini at least a year to adjust.  Again people predicting this team can win 5 or 6 games were falsely optimistic.


This team at a talent level is currently below par - you could say the same for Carlson.  I am disappointed and a little surprised of the outcome last night - I don't care if you are non-scholarship, you should beat St. Joe if you are Division 1.   


Cecchini has a huge challenge getting this team back to form.

[vu72]

historyman,


Please forgive me for the excuses. That is not my style, but this dude has coached for 2 games.  If you are going to give Carlson 4 years to win 3 games, I will give Cecchini at least a year to adjust.  Again people predicting this team can win 5 or 6 games were falsely optimistic.


This team at a talent level is currently below par - you could say the same for Carlson.  I am disappointed and a little surprised of the outcome last night - I don't care if you are non-scholarship, you should beat St. Joe if you are Division 1.   


Cecchini has a huge challenge getting this team back to form.

This is the issue none of us understand.  St. Joes is a tiny (less than 1200 students) college, with limited academic programs (27 majors) and limited academic reputation (28th in Midwest in regional "colleges" by US News).

We regularly schedule them as "meat for the grinder" games in other sports, as well they should be given the facts listed above.  Yet, for some reason, we haven't won in football for 8 years and even before, in our long history, we had battled them to an even record. 62 admitted that while in school his teams only beat them once.

So what gives here??  Apparently athletic scholarships make the difference right?  Not the answer.  Years ago Valpo also gave athletic scholarships but we still struggled against them.  They must have lower academic standards.  Possibly part of the answer.  Who knows.  What I saw last night was a lot of speed from them and from us?  Not so much.  Football culture?  Might be getting closer to the answer.  Football, for these local small schools is the end all be all.  My guess is that St. Joes might draw a couple of hundred folks for a home basketball game (last year when they played #5 ranked Bethel at home, they drew 298).  Their football team however, regularly draws over 2000 to their games.

Quite the opposite at Valpo. Despite drawing over 3000 last night, for most of our history, football has been categorized as "something to do until basketball season starts".  Unless and until that attitude changes we are destined to remain where we are.  Can we win some games?  Sure. Can we get beyond the level of St. Joes and others?  It may be very difficult.

We are starting to get a better attitude and culture in this regard.  The new weight room and improvements to the playing field etc. are steps in the right direction.  Changing the schedule to attract different athletes will also help but we have played a national schedule for years now. Our [players get on planes to go to games.  St. Joe's kids get on buses. There is still something big missing.  It won't be easy to change and may never happen.   

[valpo64]

I think some of you need to get real when talking about our football program.   With an admittedly dismal recent past, we  hire a potentially good coach.  At least give him a chance.  For crying out loud he hasn't even been on campus  a year and we have played TWO games!  He doesn't have a full compliment of HIS OWN recruits, only some from a few months on the job plus installing an entirely new offense and defense.  And now some are calling his efforts a failure, with some even calling for us to drop the program?  Are you serious??!!! 

By the way, did anyone realize that St J has a pretty darn good club for their level of play?  Heck St. Francis in Ft. Wayne could probably beat a number of teams in the PFL and they may not have as many students as St J and I believe their NAIA.

Let's cool our heels and give Coach C a chance.  This constant ripping of our program isn't helping anyone.  The negativity is getting old as far as I'm concerned, especially some of the "cheap shots" that have been espressed.

GO VALPO!

Better times are ahead...let's start accentuating the positives

[valpopal]

The sense of disappointment and frustration among the players was very obvious last night. This team was genuinely surprised by the way the game progressed. Speaking to a few beforehand, they clearly felt they had a good chance of winning. Unfortunately, the early drive that had a first down on the one-yard line and failed seemed to be a metaphor for the whole night. In fact, it hinted at the problem of losing the battle on the line of scrimmage that continued through the game.

Afterwards, it was refreshing to see no excuses given by the players or the coach. I also appreciated a sense of anger rather than acceptance on the part of the players I saw after the game. In addition, I would guess an opportunity to build support for the team was lost since the stands were full at the start of the game, and a win would have created a bit of momentum among fans for future games.

There were a couple of bright spots. The team seemed disciplined and only committed one turnover, which came near the end of the game and didn't influence the outcome. The receivers also displayed their talent, and would have done even better if a few more passes got into their hands. Kuramata had a personal best of 14 receptions, and Cassara caught a pass for the lone touchdown, as seen here:


   

[usc4valpo]

72 - that was an excellent post and perspective.  In reality, it was one of the best posts I have seen!

64 - I agree with your posts, we need to give Cecchini a chance.  But is who is saying something negative or who is ripping people?   You are what your record says you are - and Valpo is 0-2 this year, and 4 and 51 before that.   That is not good, that is poor, and that is not a negative statement - that is a fact.  Face the facts here gang, deal with the truth like Marie Osmond in the Nutrisystem commercial.  I mentioned that a 4 win season would be a tremendous accomplishment, and that is not a negative, ripping the team apart statement.  You do not go from 4-51 to a 6-to-7 win season in one year.  You have to change the culture.

I think fundamentally Valpo looks better.  They are making less mistakes.  An issue is the talent level and a long stench of bad defeat the team has had to endure. 

[IndyValpo]

This team is now off to a worse start then any Dale Carlson team ever started. That's a fact.

I guess we can call you fact man. You might want to actually check your facts first. I think Carlson's first year was worse for the first 2 games. Oh and game 3 was a 50-7 loss to St. Joe. Other than that you nailed it.

[historyman]

This team is now off to a worse start then any Dale Carlson team ever started. That's a fact.

I guess we can call you fact man. You might want to actually checks your facts first. I think Carlson's first year was worse for the first 2 games. Oh and game 3 was a 50-7 loss to St. Joe. Other than that you nailed it.

You are absolutely correct. I had forgotten that Carlson started out worse. I apologize for my egregious error.

I hope that your victory over me in the record area makes the loss last night easier to swallow.

[IndyValpo]

Hey, Factman you been dishing it out.....was curious if you could handle a little return action. Honestly, not surprised by your response. For the record or fact as you like to point out, I made no prediction, made no excuses.

After reading your response, I do feel a little better.....thanks!

[VULB#62]

We're getting a little edgy after only two games.  I agree with those posters who are willing to let this play out a bit. I encourage you all to watch the post game press conference. 

http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2014-15/13865/valpo-football-postgame-press-conference---saint-josephs/#.VAz1v0sXKgE

As ValpoPal pointed out  - there were no excuses.  We lost it in the trenches on both sides of the ball and Coach C says that straight out.  It was something I pointed to prior to the game. "But the war on Saturday must be won in the trenches.  If our front 7 can contain the SJC running attack [we couldn't] and our secondary can keep balls in front of them [they actually did a pretty good job] we stand a chance. And if our OL can help us run the ball enough to give our inexperienced QBs a chance to connect on some passes [they couldn't] without throwing pics [no INTs and only 1 sack], we stand an even better chance."  You'll also hear the reason for the FG rather than the attempt at the TD and the admission that by being denied that first TD, it set the whole tone of the game (the old past mindset was reawakened  -- it will be hard to change that, but it can be done).

I was there.  I know ValpoPal was there -- his picture proved it.    My assessment at the time, and it is born out by the post game comments, is that we could not set the defensive edge and that gave their running game great opportunities to eat up yards and chew up the clock on sustained drives.  Why did that happen despite Coach C saying they prepared for the rushing attack? 

Point (not excuse) #1:  Their "H" back (actually a move tight end) was 6-4, 248.  He lined up in the backfield and then was continually over-matched, via shifts, on our OLBs (none taller than 6-1 and none heavier than 210).  He continually neutralized our guys and created a log jam at the edge that prevented our MLBs from pursuing to the LOS allowing the SJC RBs to reach the LOS before any defensive threat could be mounted.  Our CBs came up to take on lead blockers, but there was little pursuit because it was bottled up inside. 

Point (not excuse) #2:  Their two RBs, especially Braxton Shelton (5-11, 225), were big enough to move the pile and also fast enough to go outside.  This was no fineness offense.

Point (not excuse) #3:  Our DL was outweighed by their seasoned (all returnees) OL by a good 40# per man.

SUMMARY POINT (not excuse):  Plain and simple, we got beat by a better team.

So why has that happened pretty consistently vs. SJC over the years?  Maybe it is because, as was mentioned  by ValpoPal and 64 and 72 below, St Joe's is a FB-only kind of school with 25 full FB scholarships  to hand out versus our diverse larger athletic program that is, overall, much more successful in many more D-I sports and hands out  NO FB scholarships.  And, BTW,  that SJC FB culture was reflected in the fact that the visitor side of field was almost filled last night (and USC, they were tail gating over across the way and I bet there was some adult beverages flowing!). 

But these things are also true about SJC (at least according to Wiki):
    Ranking: #27 Regional College Midwest (2012)
    Undergraduates: 1,033 (2010)
    Acceptance rate: 60% (2010)
    Tuition: $26,330 USD (2011)

All of which point to easier admission into a more affordable school that also offers FB scholarship aid. So even the players who don't get a FB scholarship have less of a financial burden.  But as ValpoPal points out, the rest of their athletic programs are undistinguished. If we were an FCS scholarship program, I'd be worried, but we are more realistically D-III than D-I at this point.  And speaking of DIII, Butler only beat Wittenberg 22-16.

Here are the other PFL scores with some notations that, perhaps, for those of you who keep mistakenly thinking that St. Joe's is a ham and egger FB team, indicate how we compare to the rest of our league in playing "ham and egg" D-II, NAIA and D-III teams:

    Dayton 23 - G'Town (Patriot)14
    Bucknell (Patriot) 22 - Marist 0
    Appalachian State (FBS- Southern Conference) 66 Campbell 0
    Morehead State 49 - Pikeville (NAIA) 36
    Florida Tech (D-II) 54 - Stetson 12
    Catawba (D-II) 35 - Davidson 7
    Drake 13 - Truman (D-II) 7 OT
    Butler 22 - Wittenberg (D-III) 16
    USD 23 - Western NM (D-II) 17

There is a reason, people, why the PFL, as a conference, and it's teams are rated at the bottom of all of D-I.  Simply, we do not have the reputation and prestige associated with the Ivy League, on top of which we don't award FB scholarships.

[VUDad]

Good defensive game summary, 62, and thanks for posting the post game video. After hearing the coach describe the complexity of the offense and his expectation that it will take two years (spring + fall season + spring) for players to fully engage it, I humbly retract my earlier statements about the offense and will give them the benefit of the doubt as they learn. Especially the QBs. Should be interesting to see what happens in all the position battles he mentions in the video. 

[usc4valpo]

OMG - beer consumption on Valpo grounds before a football game?  Oh the immorality of this!  Those fans with the Bud Lights in their hands need to be arrested with no chance for parole!

so are you telling me that a visiting team outtailgates us on our home turf?  That is not right.  We need to find a way to make tailgating a culture we look forward to.  It can be a great social gathering experience.  At Drake games, they tailgate, it is under control, and there are university approved "get-togethers" before the game.  What is wrong about some bean bag tossing and the smell of BBQ in the air before a game?  This creates a positive, active, enthusiastic fan culture before a game.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I think the admin would be ok with it provided you served "near-beer" and prefaced the afternoon's symposium with a reading from the Collected Speechifications of OP Kretzmann

[usc4valpo]

Outstanding reply Apostle

[valpotx]

I felt better watching our defense than in prior years.  We only gave up 1 long TD in this game, when we have typically given up 3+ in each game during the Carlson years.  I would much rather give up a sustained drive facing a huge RB, than a one and done long TD.  Our offense did not help the defense at all, and hopefully Jake can get healthy and running like he did two seasons ago.  Our D was solid for giving up 31 points, they gave our Offense a chance to do something until it just got to be too much time on the field for them...

[valpopal]

As I was sorting through my photos, I came across a couple with images from perspectives most might have missed watching the game. The first is a shot of the full moon over Brown field that also shows the good crowd on the home side of the field. The second is also a kind of moon shot. The St Joe player who made the tackle on the goal line to keep the first-quarter Valpo drive from scoring a touchdown did so while being de-pantsed by Crusader lineman Tom Ehrlich. 

[bbtds]

As I was sorting through my photos, I came across a couple with images from perspectives most might have missed watching the game. The first is a shot of the full moon over Brown field that also shows the good crowd on the home side of the field. The second is also a kind of moon shot. The St Joe player who made the tackle on the goal line to keep the first-quarter Valpo drive from scoring a touchdown did so while being de-pantsed by Crusader lineman Tom Ehrlich. 

This pic will always remind me of the astronaut Gene Cernan.

He was the last person to stop a moon drive.

Gene was known as being the last astronaut to drive the LRV during the Apollo missions on the moon.

Our offense sure did try everything to score. Coach C sure did bring a lot to the table when he came to Valpo. I don't think he meant to actually "knock their jocks off."

[VULB#62]

Pal, that second moon shot is hilarious.  If that gets out it'll go viral.  What do they say?  Any publicity is good publicity........   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

From the looks of him, I'd say that guy already has a viral

[VULB#62]

Good defensive game summary, 62, and thanks for posting the post game video. After hearing the coach describe the complexity of the offense and his expectation that it will take two years (spring + fall season + spring) for players to fully engage it, I humbly retract my earlier statements about the offense and will give them the benefit of the doubt as they learn. Especially the QBs. Should be interesting to see what happens in all the position battles he mentions in the video.

I read a very good article in USAToday last week about how the Stanford OL is used in controlling the ball on the ground.  It's called Ogres, Elephants and Monsters.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/pac12/2014/09/02/college-football-stanford-cardinal-offensive-line/14979515/

Long story short, they bring in the big O-linemen in jumbo packages (as many as 7-8 huge linemen on a play) to run the ball down people's throats.  And not just on the goal line, but anywhere on the field.  I sent the link to Vinny Giacalone, the OL coach.  He said they might try it except they don't have the depth to really make it work.  I don't know about that.  Going jumbo for short yardage or just 1 & 10, makes so much sense to me especially after seeing what the big St. Joe's H Back was able to do in sealing the off-tackle edge against us.  We had no answer.  I'd love to see Valpo bring in Colm Flaherty (6-4, 285) and Sam Maternach (6-4, 265) and/or perhaps #90 John Guilford (6-4, 240 [I know he's DL but...,], go unbalanced (or not), tighten their gaps to stop any penetration and cave in the left or right side of a defense.  One set might look like this....  or you could go two TEs.  The possibilities are numerous.

      X          T G C G T                          Y
                         Q      T T
               
 
                         R


Teams generally would not have sub packages ready to compensate for this sort of random attack.  And if, after a few such plays, an opponent overcompensates, a whole series of counters and passes off that would be killer.  Add a shift or two or a little motion and whoa! A package like this would only need 4-5 plays.  Stanford's OL coach says that this has added benefits in that it gives many more O-linemen game experience and creates better quality depth.

We have encountered, in the last two games, D-lines who were able to neutralize our OL push at the snap.  This additional package helps to get the advantage back.  And against PFL front 7s that are more in line with ours, it will have a damaging impact (IMO).  But I'm not the coach, just a dreamer of sorts   

[FWalum]

Heck St. Francis in Ft. Wayne could probably beat a number of teams in the PFL and they may not have as many students as St J and I believe their NAIA.

Actually they would probably be one of the top teams in the PFL.  In 2000 when we were Co-Champions of the PFL we lost to St Francis 34-30, this was only the third season of football for St Francis and since that time their record is 138-24.  They have been in the NAIA top ten ten times in the last 11 years and played in the NAIA national championship game 3 times.  They have never lost to Butler.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Teams generally would not have sub packages ready to compensate for this sort of random attack. 

Michigan tried tackle-over last year.  It worked for precisely one game, and then it was on film, and everyone else was ready for it.

And this is with two tackles who were gone in the first 100 picks of the draft.

[VULB#62]

I am not familiar with UM tackle over.  If it was just an unbalanced line with tandem tackles, that's a piece of cake to defend - still 5 O-linemen.  I am familiar with jumbo sets (7-8 O-linemen) with multiple linemen in the backfield and a variety of plays off that set.  Just because you are ready doesn't necessarily mean you can successfully defend it.  Valpo was ready for the SJC running attack and couldn't defeat it. To compensate for the elephants in the backfield (i.e., being ready for it) opens holes elsewhere in the defense that are easily leveraged.  Load up against  the jumbo side?  Check off to a stretch counter to the weak side pulling one of the jumbos or the jumbo side guard back across.   Roll up DB's into the box?  Check off to 1-on-1 coverage to wide-outs, run bootlegs off play action or hit TEs in the flat vacated by the DBs.  Whatever they do to combat it, there is an answer that takes advantage of the new exposed weakness.  But keep in mind that this is more a shock measure that is employed occasionally, not an entire offensive system.  By doing this, it takes away the defense's ability to dictate the game, forces them to react and keeps them honest.  It also forces teams to devote additional practice time to address this unique set only for Valpo.  And if it just causes the opponent to waste a time-out to adjust, it wins some currency.