Attendance decline (free fall?)

[gamelord]

As mentioned in another thread, Green Bay has season ticket packages starting at $98.  The least expensive season ticket package Valpo offers is appx. $150 for lower level bleacher seats.  I would like to see a bargain offering similar to Green Bay's to see if it spurs additional interest.  $98 packages could be limited to the top half of the upper level bleachers.  If adequately promoted, something fresh like this could help spur attendance. The "same old same old" needs an energy boost. 

I would buy one. I go to approx 5-6 home games a year. I checked into season tickets a couple years ago and it was very close to paying full price for every home game. That's why I won't buy one. I'm afraid I might not be able to go to a couple games and it would be money wasted compared to buying them separately. If there are say 15 home games a year and season tickets are priced at paying full price for 14 1/2 of them, that isn't really a good deal. Now if it was the price of 12-13 of them then I would definitely buy.

[Valpo89]

I only read the first few items on this thread, but has this been brought up: Counting attendance at each game might be a bit more technologically advanced now. The more recent numbers may be closer to accurate. 10-plus years ago, Bill Rogers was guessing a number and throwing it in the box score.

[bbtds]

I only read the first few items on this thread, but has this been brought up: Counting attendance at each game might be a bit more technologically advanced now. The more recent numbers may be closer to accurate. 10-plus years ago, Bill Rogers was guessing a number and throwing it in the box score.

Yes, it was mentioned. You'd see that if you actually read the threads anymore.

You're as bad as Bill Rogers guessing at attendance. Lazy, lazy, lazy!!!

[wh]

I only read the first few items on this thread, but has this been brought up: Counting attendance at each game might be a bit more technologically advanced now. The more recent numbers may be closer to accurate. 10-plus years ago, Bill Rogers was guessing a number and throwing it in the box score.

Only one problem with that explanation - My eyes would have to be lying to me if I accepted that attendance during the Lubos and Broekhoff eras was anywhere close to the same. 

[VULB#62]

The newly released schedule  sure won't put a stop to the plummet.  UNM is the only "marquee" team to come to the ARC. If I were in a position (geographically, that is) to want to be a season ticket holder, this year I'd pass.

[Valpo89]

I only read the first few items on this thread, but has this been brought up: Counting attendance at each game might be a bit more technologically advanced now. The more recent numbers may be closer to accurate. 10-plus years ago, Bill Rogers was guessing a number and throwing it in the box score.

Yes, it was mentioned. You'd see that if you actually read the threads anymore.

You're as bad as Bill Rogers guessing at attendance. Lazy, lazy, lazy!!!

Sorry TD. Not necessarily lazy, just lack of interest and too much time on other web sites.

[valpotx]

I agree with wh.  We filled most of the mezz during my school years, and we are lucky to get 1/4 of the mezz filled recently.  I have to think that the numbers back then were within a few hundred people of what was listed.  Literally each game had at least 2/3 of the mezz filled.

[Big D]

UWM has attendance issues in their own stadium and their games have been televised locally for many years before HL net was around. So there goes that theory.

That's BS.  They don't televise their entire season's worth of home games.  They only televised a handful of them.  That is actually a good business practice.  Give potential fans a taste of your product hoping to turn them into future paying customers.  It's a model that has made Netflix billions.  They give you a month free to try their service before they start to charge you.  It's a sound business practice taught to any first year business student.  It's a shame the idiots that run the HL think that giving away the entire product is going to somehow do the same thing.

[a3uge]

UWM has attendance issues in their own stadium and their games have been televised locally for many years before HL net was around. So there goes that theory.

That's BS.  They don't televise their entire season's worth of home games.  They only televised a handful of them.  That is actually a good business practice.  Give potential fans a taste of your product hoping to turn them into future paying customers.  It's a model that has made Netflix billions.  They give you a month free to try their service before they start to charge you.  It's a sound business practice taught to any first year business student.  It's a shame the idiots that run the HL think that giving away the entire product is going to somehow do the same thing.

I've lived in Milwaukee for over 20 years. I can promise you, people that aren't going to UWM games aren't watching the games on their laptop. UWM is completely irrelevant in Milwaukee and most of their students don't even know they have a D1 team. Saying the attendance at UWM is low because of laptop streaming has no basis in reality.

[Kyle321n]

UWM has attendance issues in their own stadium and their games have been televised locally for many years before HL net was around. So there goes that theory.

That's BS.  They don't televise their entire season's worth of home games.  They only televised a handful of them.  That is actually a good business practice.  Give potential fans a taste of your product hoping to turn them into future paying customers.  It's a model that has made Netflix billions.  They give you a month free to try their service before they start to charge you.  It's a sound business practice taught to any first year business student.  It's a shame the idiots that run the HL think that giving away the entire product is going to somehow do the same thing.

I've lived in Milwaukee for over 20 years. I can promise you, people that aren't going to UWM games aren't watching the games on their laptop. UWM is completely irrelevant in Milwaukee and most of their students don't even know they have a D1 team. Saying the attendance at UWM is low because of laptop streaming has no basis in reality.

They also played off campus for a long time.  They are now going back to their on campus stadium and should see an increase in their attendance.

[a3uge]

UWM has attendance issues in their own stadium and their games have been televised locally for many years before HL net was around. So there goes that theory.

That's BS.  They don't televise their entire season's worth of home games.  They only televised a handful of them.  That is actually a good business practice.  Give potential fans a taste of your product hoping to turn them into future paying customers.  It's a model that has made Netflix billions.  They give you a month free to try their service before they start to charge you.  It's a sound business practice taught to any first year business student.  It's a shame the idiots that run the HL think that giving away the entire product is going to somehow do the same thing.

I've lived in Milwaukee for over 20 years. I can promise you, people that aren't going to UWM games aren't watching the games on their laptop. UWM is completely irrelevant in Milwaukee and most of their students don't even know they have a D1 team. Saying the attendance at UWM is low because of laptop streaming has no basis in reality.

They also played off campus for a long time.  They are now going back to their on campus stadium and should see an increase in their attendance.

Actually they're moving back OFF campus after briefly moving on campus for a year. Attendance was terrible the year they were on campus (so was the team). They just bought the naming rights to the off campus arena, which is why it might be confusing. The on campus arena is too small and the parking is too terrible for area alumni. Its also incredibly inconvenient to get to and is located far from the highway.

[Kyle321n]

Ah for some reason I had that mixed in my brain.

[wh]

As mentioned in another thread, Green Bay has season ticket packages starting at $98.  The least expensive season ticket package Valpo offers is appx. $150 for lower level bleacher seats.  I would like to see a bargain offering similar to Green Bay's to see if it spurs additional interest.  $98 packages could be limited to the top half of the upper level bleachers.  If adequately promoted, something fresh like this could help spur attendance. The "same old same old" needs an energy boost. 

I would buy one. I go to approx 5-6 home games a year. I checked into season tickets a couple years ago and it was very close to paying full price for every home game. That's why I won't buy one. I'm afraid I might not be able to go to a couple games and it would be money wasted compared to buying them separately. If there are say 15 home games a year and season tickets are priced at paying full price for 14 1/2 of them, that isn't really a good deal. Now if it was the price of 12-13 of them then I would definitely buy.

A Big D quote on the WSU board:

I would encourage anyone that is on the fence about getting season tickets to consider getting the "value section" season ticket package. You can purchase tickets in sections 203, 209, 216, or 222 above the rail for $99. You can also get a family 4 Pack for only $260 in those areas. Those seats are in the 4 corners of the arena and still have pretty good site lines.

That's 2 HL schools with an under $100 season ticket option (haven't checked the others).  The Family 4 Pack is an even better deal.  Meanwhile, our least expensive season ticket option is $147.50.   The introduction of "specials" is a fundamental pricing strategy used to generate more business and increase profitability.  It follows basic law #2 of supply and demand:

If demand decreases (demand curve shifts to the left) supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.

We should be doing it.

[mvandersee]

If there were better opponents on the schedule I would have to think that more people would show up to the games. I don't know of very many people willing to pay $147.50-$516.25 (season ticket package price range) for games against Grand Valley State, East Tennessee State, IU South Bend, New Mexico, Trinity International, Ball State, and Goshen plus the 8 conference home games. Sure it's a decent amount of games, but the overall of those teams is not good at all. 3 Non-Division I opponents regular season games (plus GVSU as an exhibition) just doesn't do a whole lot to excite a fan base to come out to the ARC when they know it's going to be a blowout. I know it's difficult as a mid-major to schedule big name schools, but if you bring in just a few other teams who are on at least Valpo's level if not a little higher then you will see higher attendance (see Murray St and SLU last year) in those games since people see their ticket being worth what they're paying for it. Just my 

[valporun]

If there were still a lot of people in the NWI/Valpo area that remember Gene Bartow's time at VU, then there might be a lot of interest in the ETSU game, since it will be a game that VU honors Coach Bartow's time at VU. I wasn't around/alive for that period in Coach Bartow's life, but my high school coach knew Mr. Bartow from many coaching clinics and camps over his years as a player and coach. New Mexico may draw because they were in the tournament last year, and Ball State is just Ball State. Isn't one of the non-D1 games a part of an exempt tourney that starts at home sites, and leads to the host school? We will have a very difficult time scheduling good teams for our level of RPI rankings as long as computers are deciding what happens with at-large bids and seeding for the NCAA tournament. Last season, I would have been fine with this schedule with all the unknowns we had. Now that we've had a year of the Class of 2018, it's time to challenge them to show us they can build the program up with some challenging games that bring out the true reasons why Coach Drew recruited them, and offered a scholarship. Just putting in a non-D1 game because we need a breather isn't going to help these guys build into the players and future of the Valparaiso Basketball program and inspiring the local community to build/become a fan base that VU basketball can excite with great games.

[crusadermoe]

I don't buy the internet reason.    Die-hards in Valpo will want to watch in person.   

Non-conference season:  Schedule is the key.

Conference games in Jan-Feb?    Baffling.    Is it possible that increasing numbers of our students are just too artsy, are loners, or come from countries that don't play basketball?

[blackpantheruwm]

Prices probably are too high. We're paying $550 per courtside ticket this year, but after that it's $250 per ticket. They should drop prices in a big way and then make up the cost through a "scholarship drive" or by kicking up student tuition a bit. They could drop season ticket prices across the board by $50 a ticket and make up the cost by increasing student tuition $25, which in private tuition is like...nothing.

[blackpantheruwm]

I don't buy the internet reason.    Die-hards in Valpo will want to watch in person.   

Non-conference season:  Schedule is the key.

Conference games in Jan-Feb?    Baffling.    Is it possible that increasing numbers of our students are just too artsy, are loners, or come from countries that don't play basketball?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Sure, die-hards will always want to be in the ARC and even travel. But how many fans are "die-hards?" Every fan base has a majority of fans who are more casual.

Non-conference scheduling is key. Do whatever you can to get Butler/Notre Dame/Purdue/Indiana in the ARC. You guys have it harder than we do in Milwaukee, which is staggering for a Panther fan to digest because we think our 4-for-1 deal with Wisconsin is a freaking joke. With so many D-I teams in-state, it's got to be nearly impossible to get them there. But if it takes signing things like 4-for-1's, then that's what's got to happen.

[blackpantheruwm]

I would also point out that the "Decade of Dominance" had effect in that fans could see Valpo dominating the conference as a "sure thing," and therefore casual fans would want to be on the bandwagon earlier. Now, you may have had a pretty good run since joining the Horizon League - no one would argue against that - but I don't get the sense that casual fans of the Crusaders think they're going to dominate the league, so they can wait until the late season to jump on the bandwagon.

[wh]

Good comments, panther.

To the brotherhood - I hope no one feels compelled to reply by mocking panther's program change predictionsfrom the past (yes, I did it too).  After a while it just becomes mean-spirited and over the top. He has taken a chance posting on our board again, and I'm sure he's wondering how he's going to be received. Let me suggest that the phony twitter posts be discontinued, and we show him the same level of respect that we give our other visitors. 

[bbtds]

Good comments, panther.

To the brotherhood - I hope no one feels compelled to reply by mocking panther's program change predictions from the past (yes, I did it too).  After a while it just becomes mean-spirited and over the top. He has taken a chance posting on our board again, and I'm sure he's wondering how he's going to be received. Let me suggest that the phony twitter posts be discontinued, and we show him the same level of respect that we give our other visitors. 

panther has definitely made some good points here.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

However, suggesting that budgets be balanced on the backs of students already six figures in debt is not one of them.

[78crusader]

Two quick thoughts.  First, I'm romanticizing quite a lot here, but I think in some ways the Gene Bartow years (1964-70) were the best years of VU basketball.  Our teams were always competitive, often excellent.  Home crowds were great (I went to each and every home basketball game during that time), probably because if you wanted to watch a game, the only option you had in these pre-cable TV days was to actually go the gym and watch VU play.  There was an energy to those games that is difficult to describe.  We played teams from our home state where the rivalries were real and longstanding, instead of made-up rivalries with teams like Wright State and UWGB.  The gap between good small college teams and big time college teams was not nearly as great as it is now.  VU was able to lure a few big time programs into Hilltop Gym, and more than a few of those teams were ambushed by talented, under-the-radar VU squads (VU beat Purdue one year -- I still recall the score, 114-96 -- and Coach Bartow later told my dad the Purdue AD was so mad he told VU he would never allow Purdue to play VU again as long as he was the AD). 

The second thought I have is that unless VU has a lights-out team, with a win or two over a BCS program (which, by the way, we have not done in years) we will never again see a season with average home crowd attendance of 4500+/- like we did in the late 90s/early 2000s.  There are too many games on TV, too many options for the casual fan, prices are too high, there are too many games, and too many of today's students just don't care about sports that much.  VU is always bragging about its increasing number of international students, but I would bet the farm the overwhelming majority of these kids have zero interest in going to the games.  Declining attendance is all over the place in college sports.  Drake here in Des Moines doesn't draw well except for a couple true rivalry games each year.  Same with UNI.  The attendance is just not going to come back to where it was, for us and for most schools like us. 

Paul

[blackpantheruwm]

Good comments, panther.

To the brotherhood - I hope no one feels compelled to reply by mocking panther's program change predictionsfrom the past (yes, I did it too).  After a while it just becomes mean-spirited and over the top. He has taken a chance posting on our board again, and I'm sure he's wondering how he's going to be received. Let me suggest that the phony twitter posts be discontinued, and we show him the same level of respect that we give our other visitors. 

lol what? I'm a glutton for self-deprecation and an unforgiving narcissist, I'd love to see fake twitter posts attributed to me!

My absence from this board is simple, life as a college grad doesn't provide with enough time to read other message boards. Also, following the APR ban and an argument with a couple of UWM baseball parents (seriously entitled people), I took an extended leave from PantherU and following the program.

If anyone knows where the fake twitter posts are, I'd love to see them haha

[a3uge]

The second thought I have is that unless VU has a lights-out team, with a win or two over a BCS program (which, by the way, we have not done in years) we will never again see a season with average home crowd attendance of 4500+/- like we did in the late 90s/early 2000s..

Technically not true, although we also lost to same BCS team in the same year.

Anyways, I agree that meaningful success helps attendance, but it's hard to beat top conference schools when there's none on the schedule.