Attendance decline (free fall?)

[VU2014]

However, this might not apply to Valpo. Has anyone thought of asking the students why they do or do not attend games?

I threw out the idea of getting a student business class making it a fun class project to look into student attendance. Not sure if anyone in the Athletics Department is listening. A student led research project might have better results because that is their generation and know their peers better then we or the AD does. Also it would be cost effective and probably beneficial to the students.

I have mentioned this in other posts, but academic research (at a university similar to Valpo) found that the following two factors most influenced attendance: 1. Perceived quality of the team, 2. Perceived quality of the opponent. After that, everything else is much less important.

The OOC schedule needs to be better next season. We don't need Purdue coming in here but let's try and consistently get good mid-majors in here at the ARC. I know scheduling is pretty much the hardest thing to do these days but it would be nice to see us quit with the non-D1s. Maybe only have 1 per year as a "tune-up" or only schedule them as a preseason game.

The quality of opponent is critical.

[talksalot]

I didn't want anyone to have to over-think an excuse to stay home on Sunday afternoon when the RedBirds come to the ARC.


The Sunday excuse will be the Olympics Biathlon and Cross-Country Skiing events...and everyone will want to rush home for the warm-ups  Starting at 4:30:  Athletes warm up on the main rink before the third and final session of the team event, featuring the men’s and ladies’ free skates plus the free dance.

We do have a 60% chance of light snow, with temps in the low 20s.  After the Snowmagedden coming in the next 36 hours, we should have people clambering  (climb, move, or get in or out of something in an awkward and laborious way, typically using both hands and feet to get out.

Of course, the "Abe Deserves His Own Day" sect will be sleeping in as they prep for the big Monday events on 2/12.

too bad we can't black-out the ESPN-U game on campus...

[Billy Co]

too bad we can't black-out the ESPN-U game on campus...

If only they could...

Paul should ask his class what's the deal with the student not showing up. He's around these kids everyday. He should be able to get the inside scoop.

Has the students that Valpo attracts really changed so much in such a short amount of time? Or has the basketball culture just been lost and not taught and nurtured to the next generation?

[crusader05]

 A lot can shift on campus in a four year periods,especially with smaller schools.

If I were the athletics Depart you start where you are: are teams going out and supporting each other, then you work your way out. How can you appeal to greek life, or other groups.

Face and body painting before the game maybe? Or have students come and do it in the dorms first and walk people over? Table during the week to get people to sign up to be in the student section at the game.

Have the campanile bells play the valpo fight song a half hour before a game starts

i don't know, but a student run twitter feed that snarks at students when they sit in the wrong section and promises for foam fingers just isn't enough.

[agibson]

We do have a 60% chance of light snow, with temps in the low 20s.  After the Snowmagedden coming in the next 36 hours, we should have people clambering  (climb, move, or get in or out of something in an awkward and laborious way, typically using both hands and feet to get out.

The university's already announced that operations are suspended as of 9 PM this evening. Expected to re-open 3:30 PM Saturday.

They've gone soft, in these last years!

[crusadermoe]

Long way to walk in the snow.   But the good news....SNOWFLAKES would be right in their element.

[VU2014]

Thoughts on the attendance this season? Considering the teams struggles this season and some of the nasty weather this season it's not too bad but I thought we'd have a little better attendance given the conference switch. As for student attendance... that's a whole different discussion for a different thread. Oh wait...  http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3075.75

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/966181064891871233

[oklahomamick]

I understand that student attendance has been low.  Valpo has a student body of roughly 4,000.  I wonder percentage wise where we stand in student attendance.  We will have not have as much student attendance as other schools but remember we are a small fraction of the size (besides Bradley, Evansville and Drake). 

Its ideal to have large student participation at the games because it could really give the ARC an homecourt advantage.  The crowds during the NIT run offered a great advantage. 

[M]

I thought the student section was decent last night.  The community attendance was down a bit, but that shouldn't be surprising considering the weather and the start time.  My opinion the attendance was about where it should be expected with the struggles of the team. I would imagine with continued improvement and a return to success we will see the numbers go back on the rise the next few years.

[VU2014]

I understand that student attendance has been low.  Valpo has a student body of roughly 4,000.  I wonder percentage wise where we stand in student attendance.  We will have not have as much student attendance as other schools but remember we are a small fraction of the size (besides Bradley, Evansville and Drake). 

Its ideal to have large student participation at the games because it could really give the ARC an homecourt advantage.  The crowds during the NIT run offered a great advantage. 

But it's not just the low attendance. It's the sitting and the lack luster cheers. Coach Lottich even called the student out on his Media Teleconference call for sitting. The team and coaches are taking notice. They have have to be worried about that in the offseason. Last season the student section was thinning but there were still a group a students that led the cheers. This group doesn't know any of the cheers. They weren't even standing when Valpo was making it's run last night in the final few minutes.

[bigmosmithfan1]

it's not too bad but I thought we'd have a little better attendance given the conference switch.

We went from a 24-win team to a losing season, so I'm sure that isn't helping. Our attendance would be down no matter what conference given that drop in wins.

[agibson]

They weren't even standing when Valpo was making it's run last night in the final few minutes.

They were, at least some of the time, down the stretch.

And there were some cheers being led. Not as passionately as for some home games, even this season.

The coordination's never seemed very good between the cheerleaders (at the opposite end of the court) and the student section - maybe that could be improved.

There were some students behind me in Section DD last night leading some cheers down the stretch. But, they were out of tempo with the main student section...

There were certainly students in AA (I saw some athletes I knew, for sure), and DD. And faculty in EE. And a part-full student section behind the basket. I don't know how much you can encourage it, but concentrating some of the student bodies, energy, and noise, would probably help.

[valpopal]

Comparing this year's average home attendance (2722) to Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (3666), this is a big drop. More so, in that year Valpo was just 9-9 in conference (only 5-4 at home, same as this year), yet attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to the home conference average this year of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! The excitement, energy, and enthusiasm that should have been engendered by the move to a top-10 conference has been squandered. The Valpo administration has to do some deep reflection.

[M]

So what could be some possible explanations (not excuses).  I wonder how the schedule, in terms of start times and days of the week, that first year in the HL looked versus this year. How was the weather?  I know we only had 1 Saturday night home game. We had a couple late starts.  Had a couple unfavorable weather nights.

[VU2014]

They weren't even standing when Valpo was making it's run last night in the final few minutes.

They were, at least some of the time, down the stretch.

And there were some cheers being led. Not as passionately as for some home games, even this season.

The coordination's never seemed very good between the cheerleaders (at the opposite end of the court) and the student section - maybe that could be improved.

There were some students behind me in Section DD last night leading some cheers down the stretch. But, they were out of tempo with the main student section...

There were certainly students in AA (I saw some athletes I knew, for sure), and DD. And faculty in EE. And a part-full student section behind the basket. I don't know how much you can encourage it, but concentrating some of the student bodies, energy, and noise, would probably help.

I'm curious what the reason is for not wanting to sit in the student section. Maybe it has to do with the view? Maybe it's "not cool" to sit there? Maybe the band being right on top of the students wanes on students throughout the game? If that's the case maybe "strategically" put the band right on top of the opposing teams bench in the corner there and making it loud for the opposing to team to give maybe a tiny competitive advantage? I'd also consider "forcing" students to sit in the student section if they want to get in for free. Maybe when students check-in their IDs funnel them through a separate entrance that leads them straight to the student section with a divider. 

I definitely think there is a room for improvement with the coordination with the Cheerleaders and Crusaderettes. But someone needs to teach these kids the NSFW cheers that you can always get a good chuckle from.

Comparing this year's average home attendance (2722) to Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (3666), this is a big drop. More so, in that year Valpo was just 9-9 in conference (only 5-4 at home, same as this year), yet attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to the home conference average this year of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! The excitement, energy, and enthusiasm that should have been engendered by the move to a top-10 conference has been squandered. The Valpo administration has to do some deep reflection.

I'm also getting the sense that many of the locals are just choosing to stay at home watch on TV or ESPN3 these days. More people are following and watching Valpo Basketball then ever before but watching on TV may be more cost effective and you don't have to deal with park/weather/etc.

[agibson]

The Valpo administration has to do some deep reflection.

I think that's fair.

But, I'd love to see nation-wide attendance numbers. How much has the embrace of online streaming hurt attendance? We've had Horizon League Network and WVUR streaming audio for a long time, but I suspect it's becoming more fully embraced.

Or, the diversity of online entertainment options seems bigger than ever. Making a local basketball game a less relevant entertainment option.

This can affect students, and maybe a little more recently adopted, older fans as well.

Not to say that VU shouldn't think seriously about these things, or that they can't be overcome. But, I suspect there are some problems that aren't unique to VU.

[agibson]

I'm curious what the reason is for not wanting to sit in the student section. Maybe it has to do with the view? Maybe it's "not cool" to sit there? Maybe the band being right on top of the students wanes on students throughout the game? If that's the case maybe "strategically put the band right on top of the opposing teams bench in the corner there and making it loud for the opposing to team to give maybe a tiny competitive advantage? I'd also consider "forcing" students to sit in the student section if they want to get in for free. Maybe when students check-in their IDs funnel them through a separate entrance that leads them straight to the student section with a divider. 

It's a good question.

Some of it might be a chance for a more relaxed experience. (Hopefully) if you're in the student section it's loud the whole time, you're standing, cheering, etc. Hopefully that's a lot of fun. But, if you're there in significant part to socialize or have a conversation with your friends, etc. it may not be your scene.

I think, and hope, that some of the student promotions (free food etc.) are set up to at least encourage you to sit in the student section.

The mezzanine's so rarely full that it would seem draconian to try to _force_ students into the student section. But, probably they could more seriously encourage it.

[crusader05]

I think there are two things that could work:

1. Get a prior commitment from students to come to the game: maybe set up int he union and have students sign up to sit in the section. make it a commitment/privilege.

2. We need to create a chain dynamic. Kids these days go where their friends go. If no one's going, no one is encouraging others to go, no matter how many incentives you post. Colleges give away free stuff ALL THE TIME and sports orientated free stuff like foam fingers are only a draw if students are already invested in games. You start with larger groups, find ways to get them to a game or two and hope that some like it and they keep coming back and then they bring friends and it spreads like that. Twitter/snapchat etc are not as effective if people aren't already paying attention or have heard others in the circle talking about it. You need butts in chairs, you need to cultivate a more dedicated fan base who you woo (the super fans if you will) and then you let social dynamics do their thing

[M]

Really idea #1 (idea #2 was too long and I didn't read it but I'm sure it's great too  )

[VU2014]

Sold out? I wonder how many butts will be in the seats. We're not in a position to look down on others for attendance but they barely drew 2,000 just a few weeks ago. I wonder what their attendance will actually be.

https://twitter.com/RamblersMBB/status/966406865788612608

I'd love for the ARC to return to it's near sold out days or get near an average of around 4,000 in attendance again. I'm not sure we can ever get back to that in near future. We'd probably need to become a consistent Mid-Major power and consistently make the tourney with a long run or 2 to get back to that level. We'd need the locals to come out and support the team like it use to.

[valpo64]

When we go from where we have been the past few years and the success we achieved as compared to what we did this season, the attendance drop does not surprise me.  How many years has it been since we finished like we did this year?  I think the students react the same way.  Winning puts butts in the seats!  I would expect improvement next season.

[zvillehaze]

The Valpo administration has to do some deep reflection.

I think that's fair.

But, I'd love to see nation-wide attendance numbers. How much has the embrace of online streaming hurt attendance? We've had Horizon League Network and WVUR streaming audio for a long time, but I suspect it's becoming more fully embraced.

Or, the diversity of online entertainment options seems bigger than ever. Making a local basketball game a less relevant entertainment option.

This can affect students, and maybe a little more recently adopted, older fans as well.

Not to say that VU shouldn't think seriously about these things, or that they can't be overcome. But, I suspect there are some problems that aren't unique to VU.

All those things you mentioned are "challenges", but that doesn't mean they can't be overcome.  Butler (a private school similar to Valpo in size/academics) routinely has a student "standby line" when all student tickets have been claimed prior to the game.  I don't know many details, but they do seem pretty organized and engaged during games.

[IrishDawg]

All those things you mentioned are "challenges", but that doesn't mean they can't be overcome.  Butler (a private school similar to Valpo in size/academics) routinely has a student "standby line" when all student tickets have been claimed prior to the game.  I don't know many details, but they do seem pretty organized and engaged during games.

Butler also had a similar welcome into the Big East (4-14) their first season there, so things can and likely will get better for Valpo in the MVC. 

[craftyrighthander]

Student attendance at games and student involvement at games has more to do with the type of student attending Valpo than anything.  I've had one child attend Butler, and I have one at Dayton right now.  Both of my kids visited Valpo as high school students.  While this is not scientific, my sense is that there aren't as many students at Valpo who enjoy sports or played sports as there are at places like Butler and Dayton.  There's not much emphasis on sports or student recreation on the Valpo campus tours.

For better or worse, Valpo doesn't seem to attract a high percentage of students who played sports in high school.  That doesn't make the students at Valpo bad people (I believe that the academics achievements of the current student body far exceeds those of the early 1980s),

I understand that places like Butler and Dayton have significant support from the local communities that probably isn't possible at Valpo. But my sense from being on both of those campuses is that they just have a higher percentage of students who like sports.  I think that's intentional in terms of student recruiting. Both Butler and Dayton have not only spent a lot on their arenas (Dayton is undergoing a $72 Million renovation), but they also put money in student rec centers.  They highlight the basketball teams on campus tours.  They highlight their student rec facilities on the campus tours.  Valpo's recreation facilities just don't measure up, and high school students who are interested in sports can see that.

For those who may think that an emphasis on sports/recreation can somehow diminish the quality of the students who apply, I can vouch for the fact that quality of the students at Butler and Dayton continues to rise.   Valpo can make the decision to attract more students who like sports, without sacrificing its strong academic reputation.  I've seen it.

[VU2014]

I've told the story in the past but I use to host potential students for overnight visits and not having student rec center and good fitness center was a huge issue for guys. I can completely see that being a huge issue with Valpo missing out on students that are really into sports. I mean I didn't graduate too long ago and most everyone I hung out with was very into sports or participating in rec sports.

I had a friend who went to Butler during it's glory days of Final 4s and he talked about how the applications of kids applying to the school flew through the roof because kids wanted to go to a good basketball school and probably all the free advertising they received by those 2 tourney runs. I'm not going to lie it would be really cool to see Big East basketball.

I don't remember ever seeing prospective students tours checking out the ARC.