Game #7 - Home vs. Drake Bulldogs

usc4valpo · October 18, 2014, 09:27:49 PM

I liked what valpochgo posted. These guys are getting better and they are a better coached team. Yes they make mistakes, but not the ones we laughed about in the past 4 or 5 years. However, for a non-scholarship program, should losing a redshirt year really matter? I would think several of these guys want to graduate in four years if they have to fork out a significant portion of the expenses. The freshmen may want to play, who knows. Also, there are chances of underclassman transferring out, which we have seen.

valpochgo · October 18, 2014, 09:41:38 PM

I agree with usc4valpo about kids not caring about redshirting "as much" at a non-scholarship program. Also, I don't keep up with all of the game stats but if Ben had a 133 QBR was that against Marist or Campbell? If it was against a D2 or NAIA school I'm not sure you are giving Drake enough credit as they had a pretty good defense and also seemed well coached. When we give up 34 and 39 points in our first 2 PFL games and only 10 (without the pick 6) today against Drake, I just feel there has been some improvement in the team.

GOVALPO42 · October 18, 2014, 10:53:42 PM

You people need to give Staal a break already. Anyone who's watched practicee the last few weeks will know that his reps in practice have been diminished over the last few weeks by a ton due to Lehman asserting the starting role - I talked to one of the offensive lineman who said they ran plays Staal hadn't even got reps on! (talk about poor play calling if thats the case...)
As far as saying he has no arm, are you joking? Anyone familiar with the team knows that he has a MUCH better arm.
And when you're constantly put in 3rd and long situations as a result of no running game, how can you expect to succeed when the #2 ranked DEF knows you've got to throw long...
Let's also keep in mind that the two int's came in desperation time when we were losing as a result of a blocked PAT...
Also, if anyone watched the big scrimmage before the season started, you can see how that kid can throw the ball.

bbtds · October 18, 2014, 11:21:51 PM

Quote from: GOVALPO42 on October 18, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
You people need to give Staal a break already. Anyone who's watched practicee the last few weeks will know that his reps in practice have been diminished over the last few weeks by a ton due to Lehman asserting the starting role - I talked to one of the offensive lineman who said they ran plays Staal hadn't even got reps on! (talk about poor play calling if thats the case...)
As far as saying he has no arm, are you joking? Anyone familiar with the team knows that he has a MUCH better arm.
And when you're constantly put in 3rd and long situations as a result of no running game, how can you expect to succeed when the #2 ranked DEF knows you've got to throw long...
Let's also keep in mind that the two int's came in desperation time when we were losing as a result of a blocked PAT...
Also, if anyone watched the big scrimmage before the season started, you can see how that kid can throw the ball.

From the press conference here is what Coach Cecchini said about Scott Staal:

Scott couldn't develop that rhythm. He did not play the way he's capable of playing. He needs to learn to have a short memory. Scott had a couple of poor reads and a couple of poor throws. He didn't step up when we needed him to.

Coach C also said that Scott started off completing some passes and didn't look too bad. But in the 4th quarter the line did not play well and the running game was stopped. In this case the back up QB must step up and complete some of those third down, crucial plays, which Ben did do in the first half.

As LaPorte said Ben was able to have some success against the same line and with the same receivers and Staal just didn't compete nearly as well as Lehman.

FYI, the Valpo defense was extremely tough on the Drake offense in the first half and in that fowl weather did show that Drake did not play like a duck type team. But in the end Drake bulldogged out a win, unfortunately.

valpotx · October 19, 2014, 01:48:25 AM

Maybe he has an arm, but I have only seen him play in the regular season, so that is my sample size. He had several throws on 1st and 2nd downs, that just didn't make it to their targets 5-10 yds downfield. These were the times he wasn't rushed too. There was one throw in particular that stands out on a screen pass attempt to Kuramata. He went too far back on his drop before turning around to try and dump it off to Tanner, and it was batted down. Maybe he does better in the next few games, but my opinion is based on what I saw today. His last INT was in desperation time, but the first one was with 1 minute left on 2nd and 9 at our own 40, trying to go down for the go-ahead drive. We still had 1-2 timeouts. That is not desperation, but a winning drive opportunity. Also, he threw 20 times, so a lot of those third and long situations weren't because of our running game.

VUDad · October 19, 2014, 06:30:44 AM

I heard the same things that GOVALPO42 shared, and also heard that Stahl hurt his foot on the first play he was in the game but kept going. The guys on the team have faith in him. While this fan board allows folks to vent, keep in mind that many parents and even some players read your posts. Pretty sure comparing a guys first time having more than two series in a game with the career stats of Tim Teboe or making judgment on his overall worthiness to play QB at Valpo is less than fair. And listen to all the coachs comments because he also said the he has confidence in Stahl and believe he has the talent to win games this year for Valpo. We all want him to gain his confidence before next Saturday.

LaPorteAveApostle · October 19, 2014, 07:13:56 AM

Wasn't comparing him to Tebow--just giving his admittedly excellent number so that people have an idea of the high end of the scale. It used to be yards per completion that was an important stat; now we are migrating to yards per attempt as a more accurate assessment (cf. Woody Hayes' 'three things happen when you pass'). I gave EMU's number so people have an idea of what the other end of the scale is (which still looks good from here).

Coaches can't call things kids don't know how to run and expect anything good.

IndyValpo · October 19, 2014, 07:45:30 AM

Quote from: ole skol baller 2 on October 18, 2014, 08:40:39 PMLehman may not be sitting in the QB seat if he doesn't not clear the concussion test this week. So Staal maybe the driving the team. As far as the freshman QB' they would not be ready to play and why would you want to blow a red shirt. Bottom line poor play calling second half.

Just to clear this topic up a little. Clarke has already played this year as a QB vs. Missouri Baptist and several games as the long snapper so he was available. They are trying to redshirt Stokes. My guess, next week if we Lehman does not play Clarke will get in at some point if Staal continues to struggle.

ole skol baller 2 · October 19, 2014, 09:35:20 AM

I agree with VUDad. A lot of parents and players read the post and many of the people that post don't attend, watch, listen or really support the team unless they are winning. A lot of folks that post on here are negative and seems they want the football program to end. I was at the game also spoke with some players on the team and they are frustrated. Most feel that all of there weapons are not being used to include freshmen to the 5th year Seniors. As far are Clarke, don't think he will get that many snaps in practice or next Saturdays game. Just my opinion.

FloridaFootball · October 19, 2014, 09:43:33 AM

Great job by the defense. Forced turnovers, 4th down holds! Football is a TEAM game. In some games, the offense will carry the D and vice versa. Here's hoping that we can see both sides of the ball put it together soon.

2Crusaders · October 19, 2014, 10:21:14 AM

Scott didn't play anywhere near his potential yesterday, and while that's been made abundantly clear by several on this forum no one is more aware or more embarrassed by it then him (full disclosure--I'm Scott's dad). He has it in him to make a big bounce, though, for next week's game and however long it takes for Ben to recover. Why? If all of you knew even a portion of how much he's had to overcome just to be able to run on his own legs out onto the field, then you'd appreciate what's inside him--a depth and drive that maybe only his dad will ever truly know. He's come a long way, and yes, he still has a ways to go before playing up to his potential. No matter what's said about him, I'm proud of #12.

valpopal · October 19, 2014, 10:26:52 AM

Quote from: FloridaFootball on October 19, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
Great job by the defense. Forced turnovers, 4th down holds! Football is a TEAM game. In some games, the offense will carry the D and vice versa. Here's hoping that we can see both sides of the ball put it together soon.

I want to echo this comment. I was at the game, though rain limited the number of photos I took. Despite the offense faltering in the second half, the defensive performance was as fine as I have seen in a while. Ryan Singh led the tough defense with gritty play, getting 13 tackles (7 solo, 6 assists).

vumsb · October 19, 2014, 11:04:26 AM

Quote from: 2Crusaders on October 19, 2014, 10:21:14 AM
Scott didn't play anywhere near his potential yesterday, and while that's been made abundantly clear by several on this forum no one is more aware or more embarrassed by it then him (full disclosure--I'm Scott's dad). He has it in him to make a big bounce, though, for next week's game and however long it takes for Ben to recover. Why? If all of you knew even a portion of how much he's had to overcome just to be able to run on his own legs out onto the field, then you'd appreciate what's inside him--a depth and drive that maybe only his dad will ever truly know. He's come a long way, and yes, he still has a ways to go before playing up to his potential. No matter what's said about him, I'm proud of #12.

vumsb · October 19, 2014, 11:07:08 AM

To 2Crusaders: Scott was put into a difficult situation. It is always tough to be thrown into a situation like Scott faced yesterday... Just know that the player's parents are fully behind Scott and have confidence that he will play to his potential next Saturday! The player's stand behind Scott too. Just tell him to keep his head held high and not let his confidence waiver. I have more of an issue with the playcalling on the offensive of side of the ball.

bbtds · October 19, 2014, 11:21:49 AM

Quote from: ole skol baller 2 on October 19, 2014, 09:35:20 AMmany of the people that post don't attend, watch, listen or really support the team unless they are winning.

I very much object to this statement. The people that post have been suffering with this team since it was winning which hasn't been for quite a while now. We have suffered through the Adams and Carlson, "Osteen quoter," regimes. We have followed this team despite all the losing. If you want to lose any support that Valpo has on this board then piss off the true supporters. I think it shows we care because we do want them to win badly and we will rejoice when the team finally wins on a regular basis. I do think Cecchini is going in a positive direction but very slowly and it really hurt when a game was winnable but the team couldn't pull out the victory. Sometimes that hurts a lot more than getting beat by 70 points.

VULB#62 · October 19, 2014, 11:29:34 AM

I think we all have to remember a couple of things that make football a different fan and player experience:

This is not the NFL, FBS or even FCS football -- this is non-scholarship "play for the love of it" football.

These are kids trying the best they can -- no one out on that field yesterday was not playing their heart out within their ability range.

Rome was not built in a day. This new program did not bring in a flood of 3 star scholarship players. This is only the 7th game this particular program has had under it's belt. In the previous 4 years we would have been almost happy with the overall level of competitiveness to date.

As I indicated yesterday afternoon immediately after the game, I have to go along with those on the forum who echo that it is unfair to single out individual players and place the responsibility for a loss like this on one player's shoulders. A number of team factors contribute to any loss just like they do for a win. Drake put more pressure on the QB rushing only 4 because they were over powering our OL. That left 7 to defend. The combination of pressure and coverage is hard to throw against. The fact that our run game was ineffective further challenged the passing attack.

There are 5 games ahead: @ Morehead, @ Dayton, Butler, @ USD and Davidson. Of those five, Morehead and Davidson have been bottom feeders like Valpo for the last few years. Those two games are games against "equals." We could come away with a win in each game (or not), but the true indicator is how close the scores are. Dayton (beat MSU 41-7 Saturday) and USD (won @ Butler 27-21) are among the PFL elite. I would expect to lose both as they are also road games. But again, how close will the scores be? If we hang in and lose by two scores, we show vast improvement over the previous 5 seasons. Then there is Butler @ home. They have come down to earth from the Lancaster years (they beat us 72-12 last year after which Carlson was let go) and are now a middle of the pack team. That could be a toss-up game.

So if we are judging this team (which this forum does quite well), IMO, it comes down to how we finish the season. I would submit that the only judgmental criteria we should use from this point forward this season are the following:

Did we compete
Did we reduce stupid errors
Did we earn our opponents' respect

-- none of which happened in the last 5 years.

If we win a game or two along the way that puts icing on the cake.

LaPorteAveApostle · October 19, 2014, 11:55:48 AM

Amen! I think we're all a little sore because it was so close...and slipped from our grasp.

However, where were these games the past few years? Last year we had 3 conference games that were as close as 2 scores. You have to get back TWO years to get a one-score conference loss (Davidson; also in 2011 a one-score loss).

We are improving. That is largely on coaches, but as I said before, a lot of this loss is on them too. It wasn't quite "charge of the light brigade" of course, but sending the under equipped into battle they weren't adequately prepared for? That's not fair to the kids.

(I echo the whole 'redshirt' thing...I hope whoever has to redshirt is on academic scholarship. Reminds me of talking to Carl Gioia's dad probably ten years ago...I said "your son plays football for Notre Dame. That's gotta make a Catholic father's heart swell with pride." "No," he replied. "But a scholarship would." A week later, Ty Willingham called Carl into the office and gave him the news his father wanted to hear : )

Oh, and as far as "wanting to drop the program", that's just setshot. Please don't lump us all in with him.

VULB#62 · October 19, 2014, 12:08:37 PM

Here's the NWIT account:

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-heart-breaking-pfl-loss-to-drake/article_c26d60ec-5da4-5728-ac3a-c2152fc3afc6.html

And the Post-Trib:

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/30519819-556/drake-defense-too-much-for-valparaiso.html#.VEPypr4XKgE

valpotx · October 19, 2014, 12:36:47 PM

Fine, after settling down a bit, I will revise my statement to say that it was just the worst QB performance in a game that I have seen since my FR year of 1999. My revised statement has nothing to do with the fact that parents and players might read this forum. Having been a VU athlete, I wouldn't have cared if forum posters were saying that I suck, had a terrible game, etc. Truthfully, we knew that there was a forum even back then, but thought that it was funny

. Generally, I am one of the more positive posters on this board across our sports, and I follow everything and anything Valpo sports from a long distance (Texas)! I have seen similar numbers put up, but because of video nowadays, I am actually able to watch it as it happens. It used to just be via radio and live stats. Maybe that is why it is more frustrating nowadays related to watching our football team. I have absolutely no issues with our coaching staff like I did with the previous regime. I never warmed to Carlson, but am loving Coach C so far.

valpochgo · October 19, 2014, 01:34:15 PM

I felt that even with the unfortunate injuries on defense it did bring a bright spot. Ryan Singh who is a reserve played great! Even in the rain you could here him "hitting" in the stands as he plays very physical football. Melvin is also very good player so I think there is some good depth at the safety position that I was unaware we had. I'm not sure why Ryan hasn't played more in past games but I hope the coaches keep playing him moving forward.

usc4valpo · October 19, 2014, 02:23:28 PM

please, no more comparisons to Tim Tebow. We can do better than that...

usc4valpo · October 19, 2014, 02:49:24 PM

OK, you guys need to lighten up a little bit. It was a tough loss, but these guys are improving and showing potential. The games are more competitive, they are much better coached than under Osteen, and now we are getting mad over close games. That is a better attitude than last year. We are not seeing 72-12 losses. Guys, this is going to take time. The talent pool is low and this team does not have a lot of depth - let's be realistic here. There cup board was not exactly full when Cecchini got here.

Campbell is a better team this year. Drake could have been a nice W, but if the defense continues to play like that, they will win a couple more games. Staal will be better I am sure.

As for the critiquing, I want them to win but I am a realist. There was no way this team would win 6 or 7 games. Again, a 4 win season would exceed expectations. After that, then Cecchini can focus on getting players that meet his needs.

valpopal · October 19, 2014, 03:00:43 PM

Quote from: valpochgo on October 19, 2014, 01:34:15 PM
I felt that even with the unfortunate injuries on defense it did bring a bright spot. Ryan Singh who is a reserve played great! Even in the rain you could here him "hitting" in the stands as he plays very physical football. Melvin is also very good player so I think there is some good depth at the safety position that I was unaware we had. I'm not sure why Ryan hasn't played more in past games but I hope the coaches keep playing him moving forward.

Despite the tough loss, the defense did have a fine game. Here is a photo I took in the rain that gives an indication about how hard the defense was hitting on every play. (Missing from the image are the grunts and pounding of pads that were clearly audible.) In this picture are Singh, Moffitt, and Hall.

VUDad · October 19, 2014, 03:47:37 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on October 19, 2014, 11:29:34 AMI think we all have to remember a couple of things that make football a different fan and player experience: This is not the NFL, FBS or even FCS football -- this is non-scholarship "play for the love of it" football. These are kids trying the best they can -- no one out on that field yesterday was not playing their heart out within their ability range. Rome was not built in a day. This new program did not bring in a flood of 3 star scholarship players. This is only the 7th game this particular program has had under it's belt. In the previous 4 years we would have been almost happy with the overall level of competitiveness to date. As I indicated yesterday afternoon immediately after the game, I have to go along with those on the forum who echo that it is unfair to single out individual players and place the responsibility for a loss like this on one player's shoulders. A number of team factors contribute to any loss just like they do for a win. Drake put more pressure on the QB rushing only 4 because they were over powering our OL. That left 7 to defend. The combination of pressure and coverage is hard to throw against. The fact that our run game was ineffective further challenged the passing attack. There are 5 games ahead: @ Morehead, @ Dayton, Butler, @ USD and Davidson. Of those five, Morehead and Davidson have been bottom feeders like Valpo for the last few years. Those two games are games against "equals." We could come away with a win in each game (or not), but the true indicator is how close the scores are. Dayton (beat MSU 41-7 Saturday) and USD (won @ Butler 27-21) are among the PFL elite. I would expect to lose both as they are also road games. But again, how close will the scores be? If we hang in and lose by two scores, we show vast improvement over the previous 5 seasons. Then there is Butler @ home. They have come down to earth from the Lancaster years (they beat us 72-12 last year after which Carlson was let go) and are now a middle of the pack team. That could be a toss-up game. So if we are judging this team (which this forum does quite well), IMO, it comes down to how we finish the season. I would submit that the only judgmental criteria we should use from this point forward this season are the following: Did we compete Did we reduce stupid errors Did we earn our opponents' respect -- none of which happened in the last 5 years. If we win a game or two along the way that puts icing on the cake.

I agree with your idea for focusing on those three. When the fans/alums/forum posters start feeding on individual players that we're supposed to support, something doesn't feel quite right.

usc4valpo · October 19, 2014, 04:52:32 PM

Dad, I think you are being overly sensitive. One player - Staal - was being critiqued by one person. He had a bad game, and that cannot be sugarcoated. Staal will tell you he had a crappy game and that he could play better. I heard he was hurt; maybe he'll recover next week. I thought tx's critique was a little overboard and a little humorous, but so what (In all fun, I disagree with his comment - there were some really, really bad QBs who played at Valpo in the 80's). In reality, he cares about the team and wants them to be successful. We all want to see this team succeed.

Think of it this way - if no one critiques, then no one really cares.