Valpo at Missouri, Mizzou Arena, Columbia, MO 5:00 p.m. CT Sunday 11/16/14

[classof2014]

It was a painful game to watch. Always seems that we can't shoot against high-major opponents, 32% isn't gonna get it done against any team.

We were never able to get on a roll, I thought early in the second half when we took the lead we had a possession and had a chance to increase our lead, if we did that I think the outcome would've been different. Mizzou was able to get some momentum and were able to hit a few shots, we simply couldn't.

-As of now Jubril seems to lack the confidence to score, he's able to get a shot off and a decent one typically but it just won't fall. He reminds me a bit of KVW with his work around the rim and once the ball starts going in he's should average around 10 or so points a game.

-Alec, didn't look good. I know he was sick leading up to the game and picking up 2 early fouls could't of helped his rhythm. He was never able to get it going and wasn't open for many threes. Not too worried about Alec, saw what he can do last season and in the first game, so I'm just chalking his performance to being under the weather.

-Vashil, defensively I thought he played well. It would be nice if he got some of the offensive production we saw last season. Not asking much just 6-8 PPG. He does look better handling the ball than last season.

-Keith, seems to be stuck in a rut when it comes to shooting. Defensively he's very good and offensively hasn't been able to hit anything. I know from last season he's not a light's out 3 point shooter but he can make them. Yesterday, he was 0-4 from deep and had some open looks. He looks a lot better handling the ball and really only had one bad pass which led to his only turnover of the game.

-EVN, by far had the best game and once healthy shows what he brings to this team. He can shoot from anywhere and is incredibly athletic once he's fully healthy he should be a dominant player in the HL.

The game was a painful one. Our offense was dismal, we were able to get decent looks but they weren't falling. I think we saw what the offense can do when it's clicking, like it did Friday putting up 90 and we saw what it looks like when it's at its worse, yesterday. My guess is we'll average around 70 PPG this season. The defense was stellar last night only giving up 56 but when the offense shoots the way it did there wasn't much the defense could do.

Glad Wednesday's game is against an inferior opponent that we should beat by at least 30. Hopefully we can get some confidence back in our shooting, especially from Keith, Jubril, and Vashil since their offensive numbers have been lackluster.

[valpo84]

After 2 games, like the Cavs in Cleveland, too soon to make rash generalizations about a young team with lots of newcomers. Particularly, the loss of Lexus is most glaring. The Carter has had to play point and he is mentally focused on making sure the O is set and run, plus play D. He is thinking pass first. The offense will come, but it is a huge adjustment and will take a few games. Eventually, we need some O from there. EVN is a player and we need him to rehab and be ready for 20-22 mins as soon as possible. We played 2 teams who really pressured our guards, expect more. Joseph will have to step up and give some quality mins for Carter. Jubril needs to be doing the Mikan drill for hours!!. And, we tend to forget that on the road, especially a Big 5 Conference school, you have to go strong to the rack. We were getting clobbered and no calls. Not an excuse, but can't be looking for those pass interference calls. Can't expect them and need to run those Mich State tackling drills. Winning on the road is tough folks. I am encouraged with the way the newcomers are playing, however, and unfortunately they've raised our expectation levels. We need to breathe deeply and remember 6-2 for November will still be good and is still very reachable. As Al McGuire said, "You've got good talent, but we all know the best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores."

[vu72]

Keith has to score.  3 points in 2 games?  The biggest problem at the moment.  If he can hit a couple of 3's the pressure on Alec will change.  Right now you can guard Alec and others (against a Big conference opponent) have to step up.  I really like what I saw from E. Victor.  Getting him back to meaningful minutes will change everything.

[covufan]

After the games on Friday, both Missouri and our game, I knew that we were coming off of season opening high, and they were coming off a low.  Is this what meteorologists call a perfect storm?  With all of the new faces this season, Bryce has his hands full in finding the combinations that work during each game.  Looking forward to the rest of this November stretch, as we should have many opportunities to find ourselves and path forward. 

[crusadermoe]

Yeah, I was aggravated by the bad shooting.    We do seem to choke our open shots in these big school games.

However, I do think we matched up athletically with a Big 6 conference team.   That was never the case in eyes when we played so smart with Kevin, Rowdy and Buggs.    We have some horses now with Alec and with E. Victor looking like the good D-1 athlete he is.  It will take a long time to mesh, but I do see good things ahead in January and likely earlier.   Nashville should be a good barometer. 

[StlVUFan]

Is listening to soccer better or worse than watching soccer?    But seriously congrats to the women!!

Brandon Vickery is still a struggle to listen to.  That's completely subjective and probably unfair, but I find it difficult.

Can I ask what makes me a struggle to listen to?

gulp, I didn't realize you were on this board 

As I think someone else mentioned, I'm annoyed by a ton of announcers, most of them professional, so I'm probably way too picky.

[StlVUFan]

I was in the worst seat in the house (1st row right behind the Valpo bench), so take all this with a grain of salt:

I consider Jubril to be a hard worker on the boards.  I think I saw him muscle down defensive rebounds in a crowd of white jerseys a couple of times.  The not hitting the bunny thing?  Yeah, not so good, though a number of Valpo players were stricken with that disease.

Frankly, I was expecting a loss, and it had nothing to do with the fact that Mizzou failed to make the usual late game comeback against UMKC.  I heard Todd express the fervent wish that Mizzou outlast UMKC so that Valpo has a better chance of catching them napping, but I'm not sure it works that way.

Now, if Valpo could have played this game on Friday and let UMKC play them on Sunday, that's a different story.  But even if the Tigers had pulled out the victory on Friday, I think they still would have beaten us yesterday.  I think the only difference is that they would have started to figure things out sooner, that's all.

I sat near two KU fans who were there as friends of Chadwick and they both rooted for Valpo because of the bitter rivalry between the Jayhawks and the Tigers.

I thought the game was called pretty fairly.  I saw a couple of ticky-tack fouls called, but on both sides, I think.

I can't back this up with anything concrete, but I too get the vibe that Keith Carter is struggling with his role or something.  If I perceived correctly, Bryce was upset with him a couple of times during the game.  On a lighter note, twice I saw Bryce smile at Vashiell while trying to help him understand why he just blew a dunk or lost the handle on the ball or why his legs caused him to commit a senseless foul that one time on defense.  It's like he knows he's got a project on his hands even now and is bringing the patience as plentifully as he can.

From court level and sitting down, Kim Anderson is a giant of a man.  He looked like 7 footer from where I sat.

[EddieCabot]

It will take a long time to mesh, but I do see good things ahead in January and likely earlier.   

This seems to be an issue every year.  Why does it seem that Valpo needs November/December to mesh, but other teams are ready to go in November?  Does Valpo have more roster turnover?  Does the Valpo system take longer to grasp because it's more complex?  I don't know the answer, so I'm just throwing it out there.

As for Carter, I don't think he's played poorly, but he certainly hasn't lived up to expectations.  A few posters here always over-hype incoming players, but with Carter, the lofty expectations came from insiders with in-depth knowledge of basketball and the program.  I'd be interested in hearing what Todd and Paul think of Carter's play so far.  Is it what they expected/predicted?  If not, do they have any idea why?

[valpo64]

Again, let's not forget how young our team is...I think at one time we had 3 frosh and 2 sophs on the floor in the ETSU game

[historyman]

It will take a long time to mesh, but I do see good things ahead in January and likely earlier.   

This seems to be an issue every year.  Why does it seem that Valpo needs November/December to mesh, but other teams are ready to go in November?  Does Valpo have more roster turnover?  Does the Valpo system take longer to grasp because it's more complex?  I don't know the answer, so I'm just throwing it out there. As for Carter, I don't think he's played poorly, but he certainly hasn't lived up to expectations.  A few posters here always over-hype incoming players, but with Carter, the lofty expectations came from insiders with in-depth knowledge of basketball and the program.  I'd be interested in hearing what Todd and Paul think of Carter's play so far.  Is it what they expected/predicted?  If not, do they have any idea why?

Good stuff, Eddie, I totally agree, but I'm sure that doesn't surprise anyone.


We tend to offer excuses when even the coaches and players don't have any.

[justducky]

It will take a long time to mesh, but I do see good things ahead in January and likely earlier.   

This seems to be an issue every year.  Why does it seem that Valpo needs November/December to mesh, but other teams are ready to go in November?  Does Valpo have more roster turnover?  Does the Valpo system take longer to grasp because it's more complex?  I don't know the answer, so I'm just throwing it out there.

As for Carter, I don't think he's played poorly, but he certainly hasn't lived up to expectations.  A few posters here always over-hype incoming players, but with Carter, the lofty expectations came from insiders with in-depth knowledge of basketball and the program.  I'd be interested in hearing what Todd and Paul think of Carter's play so far.  Is it what they expected/predicted?  If not, do they have any idea why?

Come on Eddie, Carter has been forced into playing a new position and it is painfully obvious that he is struggling to figure it out and be in control of himself and the offense. Come back after X-mas if you want to criticize his point guard game and you might find that he isn't even playing it. If he starts playing the 2 again and is still stuck in this rut then heck I might even join in with you for the Carter boot stomping but until then I am going to give him some slack and I suggest that you do the same.

As for team expectations this will be a very good team but I doubt that it will come completely together until about January of 2016. By then the folks on this board (including myself) may be doing a bunch of strutting and crowing!

[Valpofan00]

Carter is technically a freshman. If the NCAA transfer ruler weren't so screwed up we wouldn't be asking any questions and simply blaming it on his lack of inexperience. He also got thrown into a new position. It's tough, we just need to have some patience he hasn't even played s full season.

[rink]

There were times when Mizzou had 4 reserves on the court, and they still outplayed us.  We continue to demonstrate that we don't belong on the court with BCS-type teams.  We can destroy North-East-South-Whatever State all we want, but until we can stay with a low-tier major conference team, we're not ready for prime time.

Perfectly stated. "Small time" popped in my head as the game unfolded. As it does every year. Again and again and again and again. Sigh.

[valporun]

Thinking about our roster, we have one four-year senior on this team, and that's Vashil, correct? This might be part of our problem. We're relying too much on transfers and freshmen and sophomores to be the brunt of our roster. Most of the experienced mid-majors have 3-4 guys per year that have been playing together their entire college career, not having teammates leave after a year or two for the pros or another school. I hope that we can keep the class of 2017 intact all four years, and use that experience to make some noise and do some damage in the HL. Until then, our Novembers and Decembers will continue being teams meshing to get the right fit and game time to get their legs underneath them. I hate it as much as you all do, but that's the sad nature of the beast that is today's college athletics.

[valpotx]

I was in the worst seat in the house (1st row right behind the Valpo bench), so take all this with a grain of salt:

I consider Jubril to be a hard worker on the boards.  I think I saw him muscle down defensive rebounds in a crowd of white jerseys a couple of times.  The not hitting the bunny thing?  Yeah, not so good, though a number of Valpo players were stricken with that disease.

Frankly, I was expecting a loss, and it had nothing to do with the fact that Mizzou failed to make the usual late game comeback against UMKC.  I heard Todd express the fervent wish that Mizzou outlast UMKC so that Valpo has a better chance of catching them napping, but I'm not sure it works that way.

Now, if Valpo could have played this game on Friday and let UMKC play them on Sunday, that's a different story.  But even if the Tigers had pulled out the victory on Friday, I think they still would have beaten us yesterday.  I think the only difference is that they would have started to figure things out sooner, that's all.

I sat near two KU fans who were there as friends of Chadwick and they both rooted for Valpo because of the bitter rivalry between the Jayhawks and the Tigers.

I thought the game was called pretty fairly.  I saw a couple of ticky-tack fouls called, but on both sides, I think.

I can't back this up with anything concrete, but I too get the vibe that Keith Carter is struggling with his role or something.  If I perceived correctly, Bryce was upset with him a couple of times during the game.  On a lighter note, twice I saw Bryce smile at Vashiell while trying to help him understand why he just blew a dunk or lost the handle on the ball or why his legs caused him to commit a senseless foul that one time on defense.  It's like he knows he's got a project on his hands even now and is bringing the patience as plentifully as he can.

From court level and sitting down, Kim Anderson is a giant of a man.  He looked like 7 footer from where I sat.

Kim Anderson also has an extremely low-pitched voice.  They started the postgame interview with him, and his voice caught me totally off guard, causing a double take.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Carter is technically a freshman. If the NCAA transfer ruler weren't so screwed up we wouldn't be asking any questions and simply blaming it on his lack of inexperience. He also got thrown into a new position. It's tough, we just need to have some patience he hasn't even played s full season.

I agree that we should cut him some slack, but he's not "technically a freshman".  He's "technically a sophomore", albeit one unfortunately who is likely already in his penultimate year of eligibility.  "Technical freshmen" don't start their first year with 25 D1 games under their belt, and almost 2 full years in their new program.

And he IS a point guard, not someone learning a "new position".  At his joining VU nearly 2 (!) years ago:

"I'm just a leader, a pass-first point guard, someone that will make the team better," Carter said on Wednesday.

And of course the Majerus quote that may provide some of the expectations he is wrestling with:

The Billikens have a stud freshman guard coming in, a kid named Keith Carter out of Chicago who Majerus has openly said will be the second-best floor leader he's ever coached behind NBA veteran Andre Miller.

"Floor leader" being lingo for PG, which obviously Andre Miller is.

Bottom line:  he IS a PG, has been a PG, and has been in college basketball for over two years, although only able to practice for a year of that.  We can cut him some slack, and should--but his recruiting profile and history are what make us expect more than we've seen so far.

[EddieCabot]

Come on Eddie, Carter has been forced into playing a new position and it is painfully obvious that he is struggling to figure it out and be in control of himself and the offense. Come back after X-mas if you want to criticize his point guard game and you might find that he isn't even playing it. If he starts playing the 2 again and is still stuck in this rut then heck I might even join in with you for the Carter boot stomping but until then I am going to give him some slack and I suggest that you do the same.

Me thinks I didn't explain myself clearly.  I said I didn't think he was playing poorly.  I was just pointing out that because the expectations were so high (some predicted he would be All-League as soon as LAST SEASON), he can be a solid player and still be a disappointment to some.  I didn't intend to be critical of him at all ... he didn't set those expectations and I'm sure he's doing the best he can to learn the point.

[wh]

This seems to be an issue every year.  Why does it seem that Valpo needs November/December to mesh, but other teams are ready to go in November?  Does Valpo have more roster turnover?  Does the Valpo system take longer to grasp because it's more complex?  I don't know the answer, so I'm just throwing it out there.

Are you serious?

92 of 200 minutes (46%) filled by players in game-2 of their 1st season in a Valpo uniform
90 of 200 minutes (45%) filled by players in game-2 of their 2nd season in a Valpo uniform
18 of 200 minutes (9%) filled by the 1 player in game-2 of his 3rd season in a Valpo uniform
  0 of 200 minutes (0%) filled by players in game-2 of their 4th season in a Valpo uniform

Other contributing factors:
Last year's starting point guard lost for the season due to injury
EVN still recovering from major off-season surgery

Now, if we're discussing "chemistry" issues next year at the same time, or even 2 seasons from now at the same time, you may have a point.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

That is very true and a helpful analysis.  Obviously 2 years ago everyone else was having those problems and we didn't.

During Mizzou, unfortunately, I did think of the classic Larry Brown quote, "we played like strangers".

[a3uge]

I think we're selling Mizzou a bit short - they're a young team with a load of 3-4 star recruits in the past two years, including 2 ESPN top 100 recruits. UMKC actually played Kansas State well, and they were leading at half to them in their second game. Mizzou's youth showed in their first game. Ours showed in our second.

Traveling across the country after playing Friday, and then having a day to prepare for a road game is a bad spot for Valpo, whether they're playing Mizzou, Murray State, or any other school of similar caliber. I don't really think it has to do with jitters of playing a team in a ignorantly labeled "BCS School" - I think it has to do with playing a talented team poorly on the road, something which we'll do plenty of this year.

[bbtds]

If only we would have played Missouri during their conference season. Four suspended players, 9 losses in a row and a 83-61 loss to Texas A&M.

http://video.stltoday.com/Mizzou-loses-ninth-straight--28519865?playlistId=13083

[valpotx]

The time we played them shouldn't be an excuse, as we have a better team than them, and played like crap in the second half of that game.  You could tell that game was going to haunt us like Nebraska a few seasons ago, knowing that both teams were going to be the bottom of their league.

[vu84v2]

The Valpo - Missouri game in November was probably the most painful game that I have ever seen in person. Both teams were horrible, and Missouri only won because they improved to "horrible +" for the better part of the second half.

Bringing up this post reminds me of something else about this game. A friend of mine and I got there about an hour early and we found the people there to be the most unfriendly and unwelcoming people that I have ever met.  I have been to games at Washington, Wisconsin, Marquette, Notre Dame, Arizona, Loyola, Butler and Kansas and I have always found the people to be mildly friendly to very welcoming and interested about our team and our school. At Missouri, the people around us were anything but friendly and talked like Valparaiso was a third rate school (despite knowing anything about them). Worse, their student section had about 25 students arrive an hour early and they stood there and personally taunted each Valpo player regarding their name, body or some history that they looked up.  In the course of a game in a crowded stadium, this can be OK - but an hour before the game shows no class.

[bbtds]

Worse, their student section had about 25 students arrive an hour early and they stood there and personally taunted each Valpo player regarding their name, body or some history that they looked up.  In the course of a game in a crowded stadium, this can be OK - but an hour before the game shows no class.

"We are Mizzou, We are Mizzou, So who are you?"


"We Are Mizzou" Music Video


Must be really tough being a Mizzou fan now! 

Hey, Hurray, Hurrah, Mizzou, Mizzou, Hurray, Hurrah, Mizzou, Mizzou, Hey, Hurray, Hurrah, Mizzou, Mizzou, Mizzoou-rah, Mizzooou-rah....Tigers.....Oh God....Nine losses in a row.....our team is made of deviants and we suck!

[usc4valpo]

I was watching getting blown away by Texas A&M Saturday night, and they were brutal.  They are certainly not helping Valpo's Sagarin rating.

Meh, so what though.  Valpo needs revenge on Woogie Boogie Friday night!