New Mexico at Valpo Sat Dec 6 7:05 pm CT

[humbleopinion]

This is the same team that put on a similarly sickly performance in its first exhibition game. I was ready to ignore that game and buy into the notion that this could be a tema getting votes for the top twenty-five.  The disappointment was magnified by the presumption that we were going to come in and knock off a big name team.  Then the ball just wouldn't fall through the hoop in the first half.  I feel bad about the occasional fans who shelled out twenty bucks for the game expecting a very different experience.  I doubt that they will be eager to spend that much money again.

New Mexico wrote the script for beating the Crusaders for this year.  Once we get into conference play there will be a consistent level of play that will let us determine what works and what doesn't.  Unfortunately, game against Trinity International and Goshen can lead us to believe that strategies are effective when the game just measures us against less able athletes where strategy is not all that important.

The season is just beginning.  I anticipate there will be plenty to feel good about with this team.  After tonight, any victory and strong team performance may feel a bit sweeter.

[wh]

 I refuse to begin defining this team by what they didn't accomplish in 2 games. We still have a realistic chance to finish OOC play 13-2, which would be phenomenal for such a young, inexperienced team.  We still have a great opportunity to win the conference regular season and tournament championships and represent the HL in the NCAA tournament. Yes, GB accomplished something we didn't yesterday, but they also have team full of seasoned veterans that we don't have. GB is also the team that choked away the conference tourney championship last year and won a grand total of a single regular season and 0 tournament championships in Brown's and Sykes' 3 years together. It's about time they did something notable.  This is only the beginning of what should be a great Valpo run.

[a3uge]

Holy freakout.

[Smj]

I waited to post like it was suggested. ... Glad I did!

We are a young team that had a difficult shooting night against a team that I would give credit to.    They played us defensively tough.   They played against what we gave them.    If you don't need to guard inside it makes it easier to contest the outside shot.  When we did get a clear outside look it seemed either rushed or like they thought the basket was a couple feet to the left.

I don't think the sky is falling - it was just a loss to a better team. 

[Valpofan00]

Why should Valpos goal only to make it to the NCAA tournament? How about lets make it to the NCAA tournament and win a few games. But that most likely won't happen unless we get lucky because some reason we can't beat a big name school like other quality mid major teams.

[crusadermoe]

Don't live near enough to Valpo and so I didn't see it,  But I like wh comments and I have to think we are very solid Horizon title contenders with our roster as it stands.

I do predict that if we do get to the NCAA, the loss to Missouri will turn out much worse in RPI than New Mexico loss.   Missouri sucks this year.   At least the Lobos are well coached and have a good senior leader in Hugh x? .. their aussie.

[atkins]

Although our W/L record is great, I'm not sure this team is capable of beating major conference competition.  We're outstanding against AAA pitching but whiff when we're promoted to the bigs.  The team is obviously not ready for the bright lights.  We can criticize Butler all we want, but they have demonstrated the consistent ability to beat major league competition.  We have not.  We'd be a bottom-dweller in a major power conference. 

[78crusader]

I refuse to begin defining this team by what they didn't accomplish in 2 games. We still have a realistic chance to finish OOC play 13-2, which would be phenomenal for such a young, inexperienced team.  We still have a great opportunity to win the conference regular season and tournament championships and represent the HL in the NCAA tournament. Yes, GB accomplished something we didn't yesterday, but they also have team full of seasoned veterans that we don't have. GB is also the team that choked away the conference tourney championship last year and won a grand total of a single regular season and 0 tournament championships in Brown's and Sykes' 3 years together. It's about time they did something notable.  This is only the beginning of what should be a great Valpo run.

Why I agree with wh: As usual, wh is right on with his comments.  We are 8-2 with a young team.  We have a great coach and assistant coaches.  Our players appear to be fine young men.  Our AD is outstanding.  Unlike the shenanigans that some schools have to put up with, our team represents VU in a fine way.  We have a good chance to end this year with a very, very good record.  Next year we should be very tough.  I'm not giving up hope that we can win the HL this year and go the NCAA tourney.  A LOT to be proud of. 

What wh is missing: It isn't the fact that we are losing nearly all of the games against the big boys --although it is disheartening to see other mid-majors beat them (Northern Iowa, Butler, and NJIT are examples from the past few days).  No, what wh is missing is the way in which we are losing these games.  Far too often, the games aren't really competitive.  Sure, we might be hanging around at the half in some of these games, but as the game wears on these big name teams pull away and, by the 4 minute mark, the question isn't whether which team will win -- the question is whether VU will break the 40-point barrier.  It makes it look like maybe VU doesn't even belong in D1.  I don't know the reason.  All I know is that far too often we are simply not competitive with these teams, when our performance against other teams indicates that at least we should give them a good, tight game.  What makes this even more frustrating is most of these teams we have played the last few years are not close to being Top 25 teams, but are simply average-to-below average teams in their conferences -- teams that we should be able to play competitively against (and, occasionally, beat). 

Paul

[justducky]

I refuse to begin defining this team by what they didn't accomplish in 2 games. We still have a realistic chance to finish OOC play 13-2, which would be phenomenal for such a young, inexperienced team.  We still have a great opportunity to win the conference regular season and tournament championships and represent the HL in the NCAA tournament.

We are a young team that had a difficult shooting night against a team that I would give credit to.    They played us defensively tough.   They played against what we gave them.    If you don't need to guard inside it makes it easier to contest the outside shot.

I hate having to be one of the adults in the room just as much as wh does (it puts us totally out of character) but let me put on my grandpa ducky hat and take the long term view. We have onboard and coming onboard the nucleus of probably our best team "ever". That doesn't mean we will have another sweet-16 run but what it does mean is that if everybody stays on board our depth and level of talent should be better (overall) than it was back then!

Realistically we started last night with an almost 0% chance of an at-large bid and we wake up this morning with nothing having changed! I started last night thinking that we would lose minimum 4 to 5 HL games and that number is also unchanged! So the only thing that did change from last night is that now we can think rationally about the opportunities and difficulties the rest of the season will present us.

We still have some business to take care of with the OOC schedule but I can't wait for HL play to get started!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

let me put on my grandpa ducky hat

artist's rendition

[mj]

What do you say about this game? I guess it was a completely predictable performance. Valpo doesn't step up against big name teams. The three's don't fall and we fall apart.

[usc4valpo]

Wow, what a disappointment.  By the time you think they can beat a team from a power conference, they lay an egg. Valpo is getting better, but the talent level is still not there.

[justducky]

What do you say about this game? I guess it was a completely predictable performance. Valpo doesn't step up against big name teams. The three's don't fall and we fall apart.

The only thing predictable about a team this young is that when shots are not dropping frustration can set in followed by a drop off of shot discipline which might then be followed by a blowout loss. We may yet lose in a similar fashion to several of our HL opponents and when that happens you should not panic then either.

You can not focus on our ineptitude with big name teams being an issue that is separated from our larger recruiting and scheduling difficulties. (The team did not take the floor thinking they would or should lose!) If Bryce can continue to recruit well then beefing up (significantly) our OOC schedule is the ultimate answer to winning some big games. We will need to have and the kids will deserve to have a brutal OOC schedule set up for next year and after. If that means pay games at ND, Northwestern, Indiana or Purdue then line them up. 2 for 1's with Butler and Baylor-- bring em on (Scott owes us a favor). Whatever it takes lets commit to getting it done! Next year teams like Pine Bluff, Maine, and anybody who isn't D-1 should not even be considered- end of story.

[EddieCabot]

I refuse to begin defining this team by what they didn't accomplish in 2 games. We still have a realistic chance to finish OOC play 13-2, which would be phenomenal for such a young, inexperienced team.  We still have a great opportunity to win the conference regular season and tournament championships and represent the HL in the NCAA tournament. Yes, GB accomplished something we didn't yesterday, but they also have team full of seasoned veterans that we don't have. GB is also the team that choked away the conference tourney championship last year and won a grand total of a single regular season and 0 tournament championships in Brown's and Sykes' 3 years together. It's about time they did something notable.  This is only the beginning of what should be a great Valpo run.

Well stated.  I also agree with Ducky that the OOC schedule for the next few years needs to be beefed up. 

[StlVUFan]

Never ever change, rink.

I think we should all feel foolish that we bought into the "New Mexico their best player to injury so we should beat them easily" idiocy.  I didn't know it was idiocy beforehand, so I fell for it too.  But in hindsight, obviously it was idiocy.

I did not scout them at all, and I do see that their RPI was in the 200s so obviously that's the reason why the line I saw was Valpo -9 (also now exposed as idiocy).  All I know is what I saw.

New Mexico is obviously the better team.  I don't think we gave them that much.  I think they simply took it from us.

I understand the meltdown.  After all, this was a golden opportunity to build a bubble-worthy resume, and they invaded the ARC and simply made it "their" house.  Sure there were some mistakes, some bad shots, but no shortage of effort.

Maybe they shot way above their average, who knows.  But they simply were the better team.

It sucks that once again we fail to make hay when we have the chance.  It sucks to constantly lose to ranked teams.  But let's remember that for the most part, this is the life of a mid-major.  Obviously the script doesn't hold 100% of the time, but it does 90% of the time, I'd wager.  We *are* battling the odds -- and metaphorically speaking, with one arm tied behind our backs.  These opportunities come once in a blue moon, and if your goal is to win such games, the pressure is high because when you fail, you have to wait awhile to get another opportunity.

Maybe there's something about Valpo that condemns them to always lose these games, but I'm gonna need hard evidence before I buy into that conspiracy theory.  Trend does not equal hard evidence.

Beating a ranked team is ALWAYS GOING TO BE A LONG SHOT.

[bbtds]

Don't live near enough to Valpo and so I didn't see it,  But I like wh comments and I have to think we are very solid Horizon title contenders with our roster as it stands.

I do predict that if we do get to the NCAA, the loss to Missouri will turn out much worse in RPI than New Mexico loss.   Missouri sucks this year.   At least the Lobos are well coached and have a good senior leader in Hugh x? .. their aussie.

Good point. I think the biggest point is that without a victory over a Mizzou or New Mexico the selection committee with give a lower seed and beating a #2 or #3 seed is so much tougher in the first round (in some minds the second round) where the #2 and #3 seeds play sometimes closer to home (example: Michigan St at Auburn Hills) instead of playing a #4 or #5 seed. A huge difference in chance of winning in that particular round. That is what the losses to Missouri and New Mexico do to mid-majors, especially losses at home.

[valpopal]

Valpo has a player just beginning his sophomore season as its leading scorer and as its team leader, which is an indication of the Crusaders' youth. Alec seemed as upset at the team's play and at his own performance as I have ever seen anyone during a Valpo post-game press conference. I don't think the intensity of his emotion that was felt in the room comes fully through on the video in the link below, but I think you can sense it. With the clarity and intensity displayed by Alec, I think the team has a fine leader for the next three years. During the conference I kept thinking that I sure wouldn't want to be the player assigned to guard Alec in the next game!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfQpon-a4CA

[valpopal]

And now for those who could not attend Saturday night, the highlight of the evening:


Chicago Bucket Boys Halftime Valparaiso University

[VUfan]

don't jump under the bus yet!  But keep an eye on Alec   ..this is the learning curve

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Correlation and causation, people (don't make me post that xkcd again).

While it's true that the men's b-ball team at VU usually loses to high mid-majors and majors, that doesn't mean it's a trend or even a thing.

We lost to UNM two years ago.  But the only people who played both games were Vashil and Hugh Greenwood's Gawdoffal Hair.  It's not like we lose because we crawl into some kind of inferiority-complex-shell every time.  E.g., what does the 2012 Nebraska game have to do with this year's Missouri game?  Both were losses to mediocre-at-best schools (relative to their power conference), but that's it--they had no influence on each other.

I say this because I see people saying things like 'we just can't beat good teams.'  Well, true because a truism:  good teams are good because not easily beaten, as wh alluded to the 'life of a mid major' above.

But each (VU) team is different--heck, each game is different, because different guys are tired or hurt or the tipoff was at 5:45 am EST or something; so the fact that "we lost to Power Conference Team A" does not mean that "we will lose to A Power Conference Team".

Let's not burden Alec Peters, for instance, with the failures of Rowdy's team, for instance. 

Yesterday we were a young team eager to please, trying to hit a 10-pt shot every possession to get back in it, as though that were possible. 

Good teams win because they are good teams, not because of what conference they play in.

[usc4valpo]

What do you say about this game? I guess it was a completely predictable performance. Valpo doesn't step up against big name teams. The three's don't fall and we fall apart.

The only thing predictable about a team this young is that when shots are not dropping frustration can set in followed by a drop off of shot discipline which might then be followed by a blowout loss. We may yet lose in a similar fashion to several of our HL opponents and when that happens you should not panic then either. You can not focus on our ineptitude with big name teams being an issue that is separated from our larger recruiting and scheduling difficulties. (The team did not take the floor thinking they would or should lose!) If Bryce can continue to recruit well then beefing up (significantly) our OOC schedule is the ultimate answer to winning some big games. We will need to have and the kids will deserve to have a brutal OOC schedule set up for next year and after. If that means pay games at ND, Northwestern, Indiana or Purdue then line them up. 2 for 1's with Butler and Baylor-- bring em on (Scott owes us a favor). Whatever it takes lets commit to getting it done! Next year teams like Pine Bluff, Maine, and anybody who isn't D-1 should not even be considered- end of story.

Good discussion - how about Evansville, Butler and Illinois State and DePaul?

[wh]

Correlation and causation, people (don't make me post that xkcd again).

While it's true that the men's b-ball team at VU usually loses to high mid-majors and majors, that doesn't mean it's a trend or even a thing.

We lost to UNM two years ago.  But the only people who played both games were Vashil and Hugh Greenwood's Gawdoffal Hair.  It's not like we lose because we crawl into some kind of inferiority-complex-shell every time.  E.g., what does the 2012 Nebraska game have to do with this year's Missouri game?  Both were losses to mediocre-at-best schools (relative to their power conference), but that's it--they had no influence on each other.

I say this because I see people saying things like 'we just can't beat good teams.'  Well, true because a truism:  good teams are good because not easily beaten, as wh alluded to the 'life of a mid major' above.

But each (VU) team is different--heck, each game is different, because different guys are tired or hurt or the tipoff was at 5:45 am EST or something; so the fact that "we lost to Power Conference Team A" does not mean that "we will lose to A Power Conference Team".

Let's not burden Alec Peters, for instance, with the failures of Rowdy's team, for instance. 

Yesterday we were a young team eager to please, trying to hit a 10-pt shot every possession to get back in it, as though that were possible. 

Good teams win because they are good teams, not because of what conference they play in.

I would give this 5 likes if I could.

[valpopal]

I have posted a gallery with more than 20 photos from the game at the following link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/96208998@N05/sets/72157649594335846/

[justducky]

Good discussion - how about Evansville, Butler and Illinois State and DePaul?

All good, and if discussions with Illinois St and Bradley have not yet been undertaken then shame on us for not trying to go the extra mile for Alec! Indiana St is another that should be on the schedule say 2 out of every 5 years.

[bbtds]

Good discussion - how about Evansville, Butler and Illinois State and DePaul?

All good, and if discussions with Illinois St and Bradley have not yet been undertaken then shame on us for not trying to go the extra mile for Alec! Indiana St is another that should be on the schedule say 2 out of every 5 years.

It's always easy to look at the Valpo end of the arrangement. But if we turn it around and take Illinois St's and Bradley's view of the situation. Does it make good sense to play Valpo in a home and home. In many cases there are better options within their home state and not in Indiana. They already get Loyola once each year in Chicago.

Alec chose Valpo over Illinois St and other schools. If the Redbirds can beat Loyola in Chicago why do they want to play Alec and Valpo in the Chicago area and risk adding insult to injury.