Sculptures ‘polarizing’

[wh]

Protest group calls Valparaiso University sculptures 'polarizing'

http://posttrib.chicagotribune.com/news/porter/31563051-418/protest-group-calls-valparaiso-university-sculptures-polarizing.html#.VIkzD75FMZY

Ah, to be young again...

[valpotx]

It is so hard not to comment on issues such as this when I see people post on Facebook about race relations with police.  I feel a bit safer here, that I won't set off a firestorm by voicing my opinion, and getting a more insightful debate back.  My thoughts on all of this are that what do you expect if you are waving a real gun of any sort at people (BB gun, pellet gun, potato gun, whatever) in a public park?  What do you expect if you punch a cop and try to get his gun (forensic evidence proves a close range shot to his hand)?  Based on the fact that Mike Brown stole some items, pushed around a tiny convenience store clerk, had marijuana in his system, do you truly believe that he would 'put his hands up' in surrender, after already punching a cop and trying to get his gun?  My interpretation of his state of mind with all of that, was that yes, his hands might have been up, but were probably more OUT and UP, in a confrontational gesture such to say 'bring it on.'  There is a huge difference in what that looks like and what it conveys.

What do you expect if you tell a police officer to 'go F himself/herself,' and show a general disdain for any type of authority?  I was taught to respect authority, and as long as you obey the law while not causing trouble, it wouldn't be an issue.  Whether you are black, white, green, purple, etc, it is the same rule for all.  Yes, there are racist cops in the world, but most ARE NOT.  There are reasons that there are more cops in some areas versus other areas, and it is because those areas have high crime rates!  It has nothing to do with the racial makeup of that area, and everything to do with the crime associated with that area BEFORE more cops were hired years ago in such cities.  The media has glorified these recent incidents in order to draw viewership, when they could have been using better examples of racial relations with authority.  Now, the Eric Garner example is a lot different, in that yes, he did resist arrest a bit, but even to myself, that was excessive force.  However, that incident doesn't seem to be relevant to the fact that he is black, but rather because he was trying to subdue a much larger man.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

(Yes, the Eric Garner incident was horrifying.  I really can't imagine what the grand jury was thinking.)

I find it sad that the university is leaving the defacing up.  So '60s in mindset.  Like the UPenn admin some 20 years ago who cancelled a basketball game rather than have security clear the "sit-in" from the court.  (I wonder if anyone asked the artist what she thought of them doing that.)

That said, I have to share (though I will not embed due to language) the famous Chris Rock show bit about "How Not To Get Your A$$ Kicked By the Police":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[78crusader]

By not doing anything about the defacing, President Heckler is inviting a larger, harder-to-control confrontation down the road.

Although I suppose folks have a right to protest.  Remember all the marches and riots and looting after the OJ Simpson verdict?  Oh yeah...me neither.

Paul

[valpopal]

I find it ironic that some at the university are protesting, and labeling as "racist" or "polarizing," art exhibited specifically to celebrate and promote "humanity and cultural diversity," presented primarily with an intention to honor, as the artist stated, "the concept of unity and the fact that we are all connected despite our differences." In the literature accompanying the display, the museum director also highlights how the artwork's message acknowledges "a shared nature" that encourages "empathy and respect." 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

[StlVUFan]

I don't think these protests are waning any time soon.

I can't help anyone understand the motivation probably because I'm on the same side of the divide as those they are protesting against.  All I can say is that I'm not offended in the least by most of what I've heard about.  I'm not really a supporter, either, mind you.

What I do see is the divide, and it feels to me like there's going to be a lot of pain before there can be understanding.  What most of the commentary I've seen on the Mike Brown situation lacks is a comprehensive view of the context for the actions of *both* parties in the confrontation.  Folks on my side of the divide seem to lack an understanding (and I do as well) of just what it feels like to be black and interact with the police.  Likewise it must be hard for the majority ethnicity in Ferguson to understand what the police go through on a daily basis.

I follow a whole bunch of Ferguson protesters on twitter and there's not a lot of objectivity there (nor would I really expect as much -- this is kind of a "war" after all).  When I sample the other side, I get likewise one-sided analysis on the flip-side.

The only question I'm still waiting for a satisfying answer on from the Mike Brown incident is why an unarmed man has to be blown away in order to be subdued.

Interestingly, last night I happened to pull out an early Law & Order 5th season episode where Lt. Van Buren gunned down a youth who accosted her at an ATM at night -- well, actually she gunned down the big dumb guy who accompanied the youth that pointed a gun at her.  Jack McCoy made a point that a grand jury is automatic, and if he lacked objectivity in running the grand jury as Robert McCulloch was accused of, the episode had a funny way of showing it.  Of course, the grand jury no-billed her (important distinction: there were definite, firm claims that the youth had a gun and pointed it at her; no one ever accused Mike Brown or his friend of having a gun, much less pointing it at him).  But his questioning of Van Buren was stern (the episode also had McCoy telling her that it's not that the grand jury believed her, but rather that they don't care because they need her in order to feel safe).

Pure coincidence, but I chuckled at the timelineness of my watching that episode.

Forgive the meandering.  I find myself a bystander in this drama, watching with curiosity and as much prayerfulness as I can muster.  I have a funny feeling that pain is in our future as a nation, and no amount of logic and reasoning is going to stave it off, perhaps because there's too much anger and animosity under the surface.

P.S. I live in Creve Coeur, about 10-15 miles west of Ferguson, but I might as well live halfway around the world for all that this has impacted my life.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Interestingly, last night I happened to pull out an early Law & Order 5th season episode where Lt. Van Buren gunned down a youth who accosted her at an ATM at night -- well, actually she gunned down the big dumb guy who accompanied the youth that pointed a gun at her.  Jack McCoy made a point that a grand jury is automatic, and if he lacked objectivity in running the grand jury as Robert McCulloch was accused of, the episode had a funny way of showing it. 

That was a great episode.  Good point.  I believe I've watched every L&O, all the CIs, and almost all the SVU.  Which my wife the lawyer continues to contend does NOT make me a legal authority, but I feel like it has to count for something.

I think there are definitely bad cops, and those should be rooted out with abandon; I'm not saying whether the Ferguson officer is one of them, but we all know, or have at least crossed paths with, cops whose power goes to their head.

I find the Garner case much more horrifying than the Brown.  Proportionate response...

[StlVUFan]

I find the Garner case much more horrifying than the Brown.

Yeah, I'd have to agree.  I've seen several folks on the side of the conversation from which you would expect support for the cop side come out and criticize the Garner grand jury.  The other interesting thing is that I've heard (may be the wrong impression, I don't know) that the subsequent outcry in the Garner case has been far more peaceful (I feel awkward putting it that way because I'm one who insists on distinguishing the looters and the vandals from the protesters) than what we've seen -- at times -- in Ferguson.

I can't help wondering if the looting and vandalism is as much a function of just how inviting a target Ferguson is to such folks as it is to the boiling over of anger.  I do think it is interesting that I've never heard the social order being disrupted in the St. Louis metro area other than in Ferguson, maybe Clayton at times, Shaw (another such incident -- Vonderitt Meyers, I think his name was), and downtown St. Louis City.  I know the entire north county area has been bracing for badness, but I haven't heard of any yet outside of those areas mentioned above.

It occurs to me that in the 21st century, protest movements expand electronically rather than geographically (the night of the grand jury announcement, there were about 100 cities around the country that featured protests, but they didn't exactly overwhelm the St. Louis metro area.  Feels like most of us barely noticed unless we watched it on TV.  As for the looting and the vandalism, it seems to me that Ferguson is where that's going to be contained, because Ferguson is where chaos thrives right now.  It's prime-picking.

That there might be some synergy between the base impulses of evil humanity and the possibly righteous anger of a wronged community is evidence that true evil exists in this world.  The abyss awaits invitingly.

By the way, I'm waltzing my way through all my favorite TV shows, watching episodes in the order in which they were broadcast, and that was just the next one up   "Statement against penal interest" is one of my favorite pieces of legal jargon from that show.  I thoroughly enjoyed Criminal Intent (Vincent D'Nofrio -- geez, did I spell that right, I dunno -- played a cross between Sherlock Holmes and Lt. Columbo), stuck with SVU for awhile but kinda crapped out on it, though I'm rediscovering it.  I actually had trouble hanging on for the final couple of seasons of the mother ship, but I think I did hang in there.  My favorite ADA was Abby Carmichael -- loved her dry, sarcastic tone for some reason.  Her first episode happened to be on recently wherever I was in front of a TV waiting for time to go somewhere and the last part I saw was her in with McCoy and Schiff (often appreciated his dry humor too) and they were gnashing their teeth over which scumbag to make a deal with.  She said, "Gentleman, I think I have a solution that will make everyone in this room happy.  No deals.  Hang 'em all."  Schiff smirked and they went to commercial.

[bbtds]

"Statement against penal interest"

Sounds like something my wife would do.

I can't remember, did you say anything besides that?   

[wh]

11-minute die-in at VU calls attention to alleged police brutality, racial injustice

http://posttrib.chicagotribune.com/news/porter/31595906-418/11-minute-die-in-at-vu-calls-attention-to-alleged-police-brutality-racial-injustice.html#.VIp5I75FMZY

Just thinking - I might want to join one of these protests, but I think I'll wait for the one about urban gang violence, the drug culture, skyrocketing murder rates, abysmal high school graduation rates, 72% out of wedlock birth rates, the destruction of the family unit, deadbeat dads, lack of respect for authority, and the influence of the hip hop culture.  I'm sure that will be announced any day now. 

[valpotx]

The problem with the youth today is...oh crap, I'm old now .  Seriously though, it seems like protesting anything and everything is the 'cool' thing to do with college students now.  You're choosing the wrong guy in Mike Brown to make a martyr, given state of mind and forensic evidence.  I have no issue with Garner being used to protest, though again, I have to think that if he was white and still massive, that technique would have been used to take him down by the same officer.  I hear statistics all of the time about how black individuals are something like 8 times more likely to be in prison than a white person.  What isn't ever mentioned is some of the things that wh mentioned, that put ANY individuals in prison regardless of ethnicity.  If you don't run afoul of the law, you aren't put in prison.  I am pretty sure that 99% of police officers don't wake up each day and say, 'I wonder how many black people I can put into prison today?'