Valpo at Oakland Friday 1/2/2015 7:00 p.m. EST/6:00 p.m. CST O'rena

Grizz · January 03, 2015, 01:47:52 PM

All crap aside, what does it mean to have the same mission. Aren't both schools trying to educate kids. Teach them values they can take with them in life, ( since a very small % will make money playing basketball), be roll models, give back to the community and go forward in life a better person. Just because a school is founded for different reasons, shouldn't all basketball programs be able to say that. Having been around Oakland for so long I can tell you that is their mission. The amount of community service they do is amazing. I would guess what I know of your school the same is true. So why would you not want to be associated with us.

Valpo89 · January 03, 2015, 02:16:57 PM

History lesson to those on this board who were born after 1990.
The Valpo-Oakland rivalry dates back to when Oakland first joined Division I and the Mid-Continent Conference in 1999.
Greg Kampe said back then, our goal is to "beat Valpo" and "be Valpo." He deserves a ton of credit for navigating Oakland's move from a premier Division II program to a very competitive Division I program.
He's a great guy, and he speaks the truth like just about no other coach in the Horizon outside of Billy Donlon.
Valpo won the first 17 games against Oakland. That ate at Kampe for many, many years. It also ate at the Grizz, who used to be a frequent poster on other incarnations of this Valpo message board.
It took a long time for Oakland to finally beat Valpo, and since that time the Grizzlies have pretty much had Valpo's number. And yes, a lot of it may be because Kampe still circles that game on the schedule for his kids. For Valpo, I'm sure the players get a lot of warning from the coaching staff. But until they actually experience it, and the vitriol and hatred at the O'Rena, it's going to be tough to beat them.
The rematch at the ARC will be fun to watch.

oklahomamick · January 03, 2015, 02:39:22 PM

Might be a rivalry dating back to when I was born in 83. I respect Oakland as a university and athletic programs. I admire how quickly they went from Dii to playing in the NCAA tournament.

However, would I rather be linked to small private liberal art schools that rank the same and hold the same amount of endowment?

When I put on a valpo shirt in oklahoma and they ask who is in our conference (even though okc was the site where valpo made the sweet 16) I would rather answer with schools more like valpo. That way they don't get the impression we are a large commuter school similar to our conference foes. Drake, Evansville, Detroit, Loyola are schools I would rather be grouped with. And to be fair more similar to us.

With exception of northwestern, most big 10 schools are very similar.

oklahomamick · January 03, 2015, 02:45:27 PM

Of course has nothing to do with the bball game last night. Apologies if I got off topic.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 03, 2015, 03:36:07 PM

Quote from: Grizz on January 03, 2015, 01:47:52 PMbe roll models

maybe our missions are actually very different after all.

a3uge · January 03, 2015, 03:44:31 PM

It's just frustrating losing to a team that has no interest in winning the league. Their schedule means the best possible seed they'd ever get would be 15. Due to Oakland's poor record, this really hurts Valpo's RPI. We haven't lost a game to a bad team yet this year, and it sucks losing the first one in conference.

And bravo to Grizz for the epic troll job.

valpotx · January 03, 2015, 03:59:47 PM

Quote from: oklahomamick on January 03, 2015, 02:39:22 PM
Might be a rivalry dating back to when I was born in 83. I respect Oakland as a university and athletic programs. I admire how quickly they went from Dii to playing in the NCAA tournament.

However, would I rather be linked to small private liberal art schools that rank the same and hold the same amount of endowment?

When I put on a valpo shirt in oklahoma and they ask who is in our conference (even though okc was the site where valpo made the sweet 16) I would rather answer with schools more like valpo. That way they don't get the impression we are a large commuter school similar to our conference foes. Drake, Evansville, Detroit, Loyola are schools I would rather be grouped with. And to be fair more similar to us.

With exception of northwestern, most big 10 schools are very similar.

I was born in 1981, and didn't think of Oakland as a semi-rival until the last 2-3 years. Since all we did was go 10-0 or 11-0 against Oakland while I was in school, they were more of an afterthought for me in regards to basketball. Playing against them in baseball, it was pretty similar, where we usually beat Oakland as well.

Valpofan00 · January 03, 2015, 09:35:05 PM

Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 11:48:35 PM
Peters was 3-11. What are you saying. He sucks. We didn't double him. Our 3-11 was against a double team.

I can't believe you just said that. Any statement you make from now on is sh1t. That just proves how ignorant you are. I sure hope you were talking out of anger.

wh · January 03, 2015, 11:40:08 PM

What occurred after we came all the way back from 16 down to take a 7 point lead late in the game was pretty bizarre. We clearly had them on the ropes, and somehow they turned around and hit back-to-back 3's. I remember just shaking my head in wonderment, thinking - what are the odds? I think I've answered my own question. First, there is a 1 in 3 chance that a 33% 3-pt. shooter will hit the first 3. Then, they hit a second consecutive 3. That is a probability of 1 in 10 (1/3 x 1/3). Then, think about last year's game up there, when Mondy (a 30% 3-pt. shooter) was 4-4 from 3, including 2 critical 3's late, and had a season high 24 points.

Some things just can't be explained.

nkvu · January 04, 2015, 12:59:34 AM

Stuff happens. I remember thinking a lot of times Oakland just threw the ball at the basket and somehow the shots went in. It happens. But when you have free throws that no one can contest and you don't convert? That's on you. Stuff we could control? Free throws we could have made we didn't. Plays we could have run to get Peters a look from 3? I think I counted 3 the whole game. He converted 1. You can't control how the game is refereed. Hit free throws and run plays that free up your best shooter. We didn't do that and we still took the game to ot. We flat out sucked in ot. Learn from it and move on. And please, somehow figure out a way to hit 70 percent of our free throws!

valpotx · January 04, 2015, 01:16:54 PM

Yeah, that FR that had 16 points threw a one-handed shot at the basket that clanged off the back of the rim, and stuck for a microsecond, before just dropping in. It was one of those 'thud' baskets, where you just shake your head and laugh.

StlVUFan · January 04, 2015, 01:49:42 PM

1. The officials had a pretty bad night, but from my perch 6 rows behind the Valpo bench I do *not* believe the screwups were one-sided at all. I remember the horrendous blocking foul called on a stationary Peters in the first half (outside the semi-circle no less). I remember Carter getting plowed at half-court, no call. I also remember Carter getting fouled on that layup in the 2nd half and that was missed. I did not see the illegal screen that Bryce screamed about, but I suspect it was there. I also saw Petros get hacked several times with no call, I saw us get away with a travel and a double-dribble. That lack of continuation that Kampe screamed about is often awarded in that situation. There are others I'm probably forgetting. It wasn't home-cooking. It wasn't 5-on-8. It was 5-on-5-on-3. I remember a game exactly like that at the ORena back in 2003 and we won that one, so I guess it was their turn.

2. All coaches work the refs, even Homer did, and Bryce is even more forceful about it. Kampe is just more colorful than some. ORU fans hated him too, and I'm not overly impressed with their attitude either, as if Scott Sutton never ever worked the refs (yeah right).

3. They brought their A game and we brought our C-/D+ game, they had us by 16 because they shot unbelievably well and we looked lost at times. We fought back and sent it OT. I tip my cap to Kampe on this game.

4. His scheduling can be critiqued, but I refuse to join in any excoriation of him over it because there really is no good way for a mid-major to schedule these days.

5. Comparing fouls and FT attempts is no way to argue that the officiating was one-sided. It is at best circumstantial evidence. It *might* be enough for a warrant, but it's not enough for an arrest. In this game, you have no case, as Grizz ably pointed out. All they did was shoot FTs in the OT because all we were doing was fouling (even after the game was statistically over, by the way). I do remember in the 2nd half at one point it was 7-1 on the fouls, to which someone is entitled to respond: "Feel free not to foul so much." The problem was not the disparity in the fouls, the problem was that plenty of fouls were missed and others were called on the wrong team. And I'm sorry, but I thought almost all of the fouls Felder drew were legitimate. He was simply too much for us to handle. Both Bryce and Greg have ample reason to complain to the league office about this one, in my opinion.

valpotx · January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PM

We have to remember that Stl is a friend of Kampe's, when considering his comments

. Only 12 of the FTs were because we fouled on purpose. That still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland (I refuse to call them OU, as that is Oklahoma). Some of the fouls on Felder were legitimate, several others were not.

LaPorteAveApostle · January 04, 2015, 07:18:30 PM

We have to remember that Tex was not a math major when considering his comments.

Only 8 FT were because we fouled on purpose; 2 more were for the technical.

GOOD! LAYUP by Hayes, Jalen [PNT] 02:27 76-73 H 3
02:22 TIMEOUT 30sec
02:06 MISSED 3 PTR by PETERS, Alec
02:06 REBOUND (OFF) by WALKER, Tevonn
REBOUND (DEF) by Petros, Corey 02:01 MISSED LAYUP by WALKER, Tevonn
GOOD! JUMPER by Felder, Kahlil 01:37 78-73 H 5
REBOUND (DEF) by Felder, Kahlil 01:24 MISSED 3 PTR by CARTER, Keith
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 01:20 79-73 H 6 FOUL by NICKERSON, E. Victor (P2T17)
MISSED FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 01:20 REBOUND (DEF) by PETERS, Alec
01:20 SUB IN : WALKER, Darien
01:20 SUB OUT: NICKERSON, E. Victor
REBOUND (DEF) by Petros, Corey 01:07 MISSED JUMPER by PETERS, Alec
GOOD! DUNK by Williams, Dante [FB/PNT] 01:01 81-73 H 8
ASSIST by Daniels, Nick 01:01
00:53 TURNOVR by PETERS, Alec
STEAL by Felder, Kahlil 00:51
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:50 82-73 H 9 FOUL by CARTER, Keith (P5T18)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:50 83-73 H 10
00:50 SUB IN : NICKERSON, E. Victor
00:50 SUB IN : SKARA, David
00:50 SUB OUT: CARTER, Keith
00:50 SUB OUT: PETERS, Alec
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:45 84-73 H 11 FOUL TECHNCL by the bench
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:45 85-73 H 12
SUB IN : McCune, Tommie 00:45 SUB IN : JOSEPH, Max
SUB OUT: Petros, Corey 00:45 SUB IN : DAVIDSON, Nick
00:45 SUB OUT: NICKERSON, E. Victor
00:45 SUB OUT: WALKER, Tevonn
REBOUND (DEF) by Felder, Kahlil 00:37 MISSED 3 PTR by WALKER, Darien
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:32 86-73 H 13 FOUL by SKARA, David (P3T19)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:32 87-73 H 14
00:26 87-75 H 12 GOOD! LAYUP by WALKER, Darien [PNT]
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:19 88-75 H 13 FOUL by SKARA, David (P4T20)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:19 89-75 H 14
REBOUND (DEF) by McCune, Tommie 00:14 MISSED JUMPER by WALKER, Darien

Oakland 89, Valparaiso 75

valpotx · January 04, 2015, 08:10:08 PM

I love proving you wrong, Saders, as we all need to remember that Saders did not major in attention to detail when reading his comments

. You conveniently forgot the 4 FTs taken at the end of regulation that were fouls to position us to stay in the game. BOOM (drops mic on LAA):

Turnover by PETERS,ALEC 00:37

00:36 Steal by DANIELS,NICK

Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:35

00:35 68-70 FELDER,KAHLIL made free throw

Full timeout 00:35

00:35 FELDER,KAHLIL missed free throw

Defensive rebound by PETERS,ALEC 00:35

Sub In: ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:35

Sub Out: FERNANDEZ,VASHIL 00:35

WALKER,DARIEN missed 3-pointer 00:23

00:23 Defensive rebound by DANIELS,NICK

Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:20

00:20 68-71 DANIELS,NICK made free throw

00:20 DANIELS,NICK missed free throw

Defensive rebound by ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:20

CARTER,KEITH made 3-pointer 00:11 71-71

00:02 FELDER,KAHLIL missed 3-pointer

Defensive rebound by TEAM 00:02

talksalot · January 04, 2015, 08:42:01 PM

Hey ... don't blame the ref's... they had a place to catch to work the Lions-Cowboys game...

StlVUFan · January 04, 2015, 11:00:38 PM

Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland

And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."

valpopal · January 04, 2015, 11:47:03 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland
And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."

Your advice "to not foul so much" would make sense if Valpo had a record of fouling teams or if Felder had a record of causing a tremendous amount of free throws. However, in its 16 other games, Valpo has averaged just 16 fouls per game and their opponents have averaged just 15 free throws per game. Also, in his 47-game career, the most free throws Felder had in any game was 10, only once. Felder's career average for free throws is 4.3 per game. His average this season not counting Valpo: 5.7

bbtds · January 04, 2015, 11:52:27 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland
And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."

He may be looking at the stats wrong but I do believe that Felder was given a huge advantage in the fouls called department. If Valpo wasn't pushing down the lane the same as Felder than I would have believed there was more fouls by Valpo. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I truly believe that Bryce must have said something to Wymer that was similar to what another coach said to him at another game and it ticked him off royally. Once he gave the warning the game seemed to favor Oakland in the foul category by a great deal. I believe you can watch it again. The contact on the Valpo players driving the lane was the same as the contact on Felder.

nkvu · January 05, 2015, 12:54:28 AM

Quote from: talksalot on January 04, 2015, 08:42:01 PM
Hey ... don't blame the ref's... they had a place to catch to work the Lions-Cowboys game...

Not to threadjack, but if I ruled the world I would definitely have a forensic accountant look into that ref's bank accounts as well as Jerry Jones's. Detroit got totally hosed on that flag pickup on the pass interference non-call and it cost them the game. Shameful.

valpotx · January 05, 2015, 01:14:42 AM

That wasn't my only argument, I was just pointing out that without the fouls we meant to commit, that was the true difference. I had earlier pointed out that our players drove the lane just as much as Oakland, and the same contact that was called for fouls on Valpo, was not called against Oakland. My examples were when Tevonn got an offensive rebound in mid-air, and was blatantly pushed/launched by an Oakland player, as well as a phantom foul on Peters after a rebound. It seemed that because Felder is 5'9"/very small for basketball, that he was given a major benefit in that any contact he caused, looked a lot more like a foul against the defense than it should have been. The defensive player has just as much right to stand their ground in a certain point on the court, as the offensive player does in trying to get to the basket.

Kyle321n · January 05, 2015, 10:41:41 AM

I'm not going to dispute the fact that the refs weren't great, they really weren't, but I want to point out to those who think Felder drew an inordinate amount of fouls from us, he draws an average of 5.9 Fouls/40 which is second in the league. Get ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.

bbtds · January 05, 2015, 11:04:40 AM

Quote from: Kyle321n on January 05, 2015, 10:41:41 AMGet ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.

Against Cleveland State Jay Harris shot 3 of 14 (0 of 4 from three) but 7 of 7 FTs for a total of 13 points. Against YSU Harris had 32 points on 13 for 13 FTs. If there is anyone on UIC you don't want to commit a lot of fouls against it's Jay Harris. Not fouling Jay made the difference in the margin of victory (5) for CSU.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilch/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/box_score/stats_20150104aaa.pdf

valpopal · January 05, 2015, 11:15:07 AM

Quote from: Kyle321n on January 05, 2015, 10:41:41 AM
I'm not going to dispute the fact that the refs weren't great, they really weren't, but I want to point out to those who think Felder drew an inordinate amount of fouls from us, he draws an average of 5.9 Fouls/40 which is second in the league. Get ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.

If Felder had anywhere near his average of free throws in the Oakland game, I doubt anyone would be mad. The same is true for Harris, whose average is 5.2 free throws per game, especially since on average Valpo is not a team that gives opponents a ton of free throws.

covufan · January 05, 2015, 01:11:45 PM

I was not able to watch this game. From the box score the disparity of fouls generally indicates one team being woefully out of position, extremely lethargic, or the refs really blew it. I'm going with the latter. As others have said, we had a 7 point lead with under four minutes remaining. This is when we need to put these games away. In the last 3:54 of the game, we had 4 fouls to their 0, 3 TO's to their 1, attempted 4 shots to their 6, and no FT attempts to their 6. With a lead, we should be finding a way to the FT line. Oakland also had two ORebounds to our zero. Overall, our FG%, 3-pt % and FT% kept Oakland in the game, and gave them a chance at Overtime. One could say that Oakland's defense may have had something to do with our FG%, but we should have hit more FTs, keeping the game from OT. These are the type of games we need to finish and win to be a top 50 team.

If someone had told me we'd be 14-3 at this point of the season, I would have taken it very quickly. This is a good team, and will find ways to win in the future. They need to win out at home and pick up an unexpected road win.