Valpo at Oakland Friday 1/2/2015 7:00 p.m. EST/6:00 p.m. CST O'rena

[FWalum]

I found this statement today from the League to be quite interesting

Felder was 19-of-24 from the foul line in the contest, setting the Oakland and Horizon League record for free throw attempts and matching the League record for free throws made.

[valpopal]

I found this statement today from the League to be quite interesting

Felder was 19-of-24 from the foul line in the contest, setting the Oakland and Horizon League record for free throw attempts and matching the League record for free throws made.

My comment to the league would be a quote borrowed from Chevy Chase: "Nothin' to be proud of, Rusty!"

[LaPorteAveApostle]

"Can hardly see the line, can you, Kahlil?"

[bbtds]

I went back and watched the whole game and noted all the foul calls and non-calls that I felt could have gone either way or were obviously missed with the time on the clock noted. There were definitely some that went Valpo's way for sure. There were not nearly as many fouls called, when Felder was driving the lane, that I thought had been called and were not fouls as I thought there were. The most controversy, I felt, were in the fouls not called on the Grizzlies. Remember I counted anything that could have been called or was called that could have gone either way or was obviously a bad call.

first half:
Valpo 17 calls/non calls against
Oakland 7 calls/non calls against

second half:
Valpo 22 calls/non calls against
Oakland 8 calls/non calls against

Overtime:
Valpo 5 calls/non calls against
Oakland 2 calls/non calls against

Total:
Valpo 44 calls/non calls against
Oakland 17 calls/non calls against


Even if my bias showed that is still 3 times as many calls/non calls against Valpo. I realize that the home team is expected to get most of the calls but not in that heavy handed fashion. Wymer and refing crew had a lousy game.

Here are the real controversial calls in my view:

First half:
1. 17:37 Felder drives Vashil slaps his wrist lightly-ends in three point play
2. 15:33 Bryce given bench warning for arguing offensive foul on Valpo.
3. 7:26 Darien possibly fouled from behind driving lane on fast break ball knocked out of bounds
4. 6:38 Tavonn called for foul on three point shot by Felder--makes 2 of 3 FTs
5. 5:02 Carter drove lane and scored no foul called could have been 3 point play--Bryce argued no call
6. 3:47 Carter drove lane slapped at by 3 Oakland players--no call--Bryce argued no call
7. 0:06.8 Daniels drove lane and foul called--Bryce argued call 

The last 3 minutes of the 1st half and halftime is when the broadcast had technical difficulties as the broadcast started freezing.
it had been fixed by the start of the 2nd half.


second half:
8. 19:30 Hayes takes pass in lane foul called on Peters (his 3rd foul) both FTs made
9. 18:55 Peters drove outside lane Petros blocks shot but looked like he got a lot of body on Peters
10. 16:18 Tevonn run over by Hayes near center of court--worst call of night--no foul--then Nickerson called for much lighter foul on Hayes.
11. 14:23 Adekoya called for foul in scrum on floor for loose ball (14:21 Announcers mention that the foul differential is 5-1 and expect foul to be called on Oakland)
12. 13:50 Nickerson driving lane balled knocked away--no foul call--Bryce argued no call
13. 12:43 Carter scores on drive on edge of lane--announcer said a foul should have been called for three point play--no foul called--Bryce argued no call
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)
15. 7:36 Felder drives lane Carter called for foul for light slap on wrist--Kampe goes irate because he thought foul should have been called on shot that Felder made but refs had called foul on floor. In essence Kampe was admitting there was no foul on floor. Kampe gets so irate he twirls around and ends up by tunnel. BAD CALL
16. 3:25 Offensive foul called on Vashil on screen--much like other screens Vashil sets--Bryce argues call.
17. 2:28 Felder drove lane knocks Carter out of bounds with his butt--much contact--announcers mention too much contact--no call.

OVERTIME:
18. 3:50 Tevonn drove lane--possible foul--no call--BAD CALL--Bryce argues call
19. 3:15 Petros gets pass in lane--foul called on Vashil (his fifth foul)--Bryce argues call and eventually gets Technical Foul called on him.
20. 2:03 Tavonn got rebound and goes up for put back--looked like foul--announcers mention possible foul--no call

[historyman]

Turnover by PETERS,ALEC 00:37       
00:36  Steal by DANIELS,NICK   
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:35       
00:35 68-70 FELDER,KAHLIL made free throw   
Full timeout 00:35       
00:35  FELDER,KAHLIL missed free throw   
Defensive rebound by PETERS,ALEC 00:35     
Sub In: ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:35     
Sub Out: FERNANDEZ,VASHIL 00:35     
WALKER,DARIEN missed 3-pointer 00:23      
00:23  Defensive rebound by DANIELS,NICK   
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:20     

It was Darien Walker's miss with :23 seconds left that really hurt us in this game. Darien had missed 6 previous threes while Keith Carter had hit his proceeding three shot. If Keith had nailed a three with 20-some seconds left along with the three at the end of the game it would have really launched him into Valpo record books as the hero of this season. Too bad. Keith has really deserved it.

[Smj]

Dude...  That is a great summary of the game.    Too bad the refs probably do not care.   

[Smj]

bbtds ...   When was the obvious over the back?   

[LaPorteAveApostle]

It was Darien Walker's miss with :23 seconds left that really hurt us in this game.

I tell you what, you're right, and the only thing that has saved that guy is KC's shot later.

I was already composing a DIATRIBE of Tremendous Proportion where I was going to say Things That Cannot Be Taken Back like "THIS GUY IS JORDAN AARON IN BROWN AND GOLD" and such.

Here's his season.  Look at his shot numbers in November, and then compare them to THE REST OF THE SEASON.

At some point, it's not a slump; it's who you are.

[historyman]

I do think Tavonn and Keith should be taking more of Darien shots. Of course with the Oakland announcers they just kept calling both Tavonn and Darien "Walker" and you weren't sure who they were talking about. The color guy kept saying that Darien was a "giant killer to the Grizzlies" and I truly believe he was confusing Darien with Tavonn because Darien hadn't hit many two pointers and no threes most of the game until he started making a few lay-ups at the end of regulation.

[valpotx]

Man, I knew that Darien had struggled over the last 5-6 games, but didn't know that it was just about every game in December!  He does good things outside of scoring in order to contribute, but hopefully finds that November touch again.  Maybe he came back to Earth, but hopefully he is somewhere in-between what we have seen.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Let's put this in perspective.

In 7 of our games, he had more points than shots.
One game they were equal.
IN NINE GAMES HE HAD MORE SHOTS TAKEN THAN POINTS SCORED.

That's a clear message that you shouldn't be shooting so much.  you're WASTING POSSESSIONS.

As much as I hate to say it, Jordan Aaron (ca. 2012-13) now plays for VU.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Alec Peters has 3 such games (more shots than points) for reference.

T Walker has 4.  As does KC.

D Walker has 9.  Is shooting 36.7%.

As I said during the game about that 3 with 23 sec left:  how is he any better than the 4th option on the court with those three guys?

[FWalum]

In the chat room on Sunday we talked a little about Darien.  I said at that time "He has gotten it into his head that we need him to score and I think he is forcing it". It was great in those early games to have him really take over that #2 scoring position behind Alec.  We were all wondering how this kid got away from some of the other programs and was hanging around late without signing with anyone else.  Now that Tevonn and Keith have become more acclimated, Darien should just let the game come to him, no need to force, he doesn't HAVE to score.  I think that "forcing it" has allowed some "shooting mechanics" issues to pop up as it looks like he is flinging the ball at the basket with a lot more elbow than he did earlier.  Keep doing the good stuff like playing great defense and rebounding let the play come to you and good things will happen again for Darien.

[Smj]

Fwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife.    We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release.  We see him fling the ball lately.     (In golf, when someone messes with an ugly but successful swing it often becomes an ugly unsuccessful swing.)

I would say that many players (and fans) think the sign of success is scoring statistics but sometimes it is the quiet player that impacts the game significantly...

[bbtds]

bbtds ...   When was the obvious over the back?   

I don't remember that call or non-call of "over-the-back." Wasn't that in the YSU game on Sunday?

[FWalum]

Fwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife.    We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release.

So the wife helps analyse shooting mechanics???  Lucky man!

[oklahomamick]

That was the ysu game.  I actually posted something about it on that thread when it happen as a I was astandished by the play.

[historyman]

Fwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife.    We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release.  We see him fling the ball lately. 

So the wife helps analyse shooting mechanics???  Lucky man!

I'm not saying that this is what happens with Smj and his wife but in many marriages the wife likes to be interested in things that the husband is interested in. She learns a few things and this makes the husband happy which makes the wife happy that the husband is happy. When Smj points out to his wife some problems in shooting mechanics that Darien has she files that in her head. When Smj brings it up again during the Oakland live internet feed she mentions that which Smj mentioned earlier about Darien's shooting habits and is happy she can talk with her husband about something he is interested in. All the ideas come from Smj while his wife listens and repeats his ideas and that makes Smj happy and therefore makes his wife happy. It's similar to what my wife does but if you asked her what her opinion of a certain player or team was she would always repeat my opinion because that keeps me happy.

If I'm wrong then please let me know but I've noticed this pattern in my own marriage many times.

Sometimes husbands are even more guilty of this when they try to be interested in things that their wives are passionate about.

If you really pay attention to your marriage you will see it sometimes happening which, of course, is not a bad thing.

[Kyle321n]

My wife has taken to calling fouls even if it's on us. I have to remind her that we're rooting for Valpo and if the refs called fouls on us it wouldn't be good. She just wants fair calls on both sides.

[StlVUFan]

I went back and watched the whole game and noted all the foul calls and non-calls that I felt could have gone either way or were obviously missed with the time on the clock noted. There were definitely some that went Valpo's way for sure. There were not nearly as many fouls called, when Felder was driving the lane, that I thought had been called and were not fouls as I thought there were. The most controversy, I felt, were in the fouls not called on the Grizzlies. Remember I counted anything that could have been called or was called that could have gone either way or was obviously a bad call.

first half:
Valpo 17 calls/non calls against
Oakland 7 calls/non calls against

second half:
Valpo 22 calls/non calls against
Oakland 8 calls/non calls against

Overtime:
Valpo 5 calls/non calls against
Oakland 2 calls/non calls against

Total:
Valpo 44 calls/non calls against
Oakland 17 calls/non calls against


Even if my bias showed that is still 3 times as many calls/non calls against Valpo. I realize that the home team is expected to get most of the calls but not in that heavy handed fashion. Wymer and refing crew had a lousy game.

Here are the real controversial calls in my view:

First half:
1. 17:37 Felder drives Vashil slaps his wrist lightly-ends in three point play
2. 15:33 Bryce given bench warning for arguing offensive foul on Valpo.
3. 7:26 Darien possibly fouled from behind driving lane on fast break ball knocked out of bounds
4. 6:38 Tavonn called for foul on three point shot by Felder--makes 2 of 3 FTs
5. 5:02 Carter drove lane and scored no foul called could have been 3 point play--Bryce argued no call
6. 3:47 Carter drove lane slapped at by 3 Oakland players--no call--Bryce argued no call
7. 0:06.8 Daniels drove lane and foul called--Bryce argued call 

The last 3 minutes of the 1st half and halftime is when the broadcast had technical difficulties as the broadcast started freezing.
it had been fixed by the start of the 2nd half.


second half:
8. 19:30 Hayes takes pass in lane foul called on Peters (his 3rd foul) both FTs made
9. 18:55 Peters drove outside lane Petros blocks shot but looked like he got a lot of body on Peters
10. 16:18 Tevonn run over by Hayes near center of court--worst call of night--no foul--then Nickerson called for much lighter foul on Hayes.
11. 14:23 Adekoya called for foul in scrum on floor for loose ball (14:21 Announcers mention that the foul differential is 5-1 and expect foul to be called on Oakland)
12. 13:50 Nickerson driving lane balled knocked away--no foul call--Bryce argued no call
13. 12:43 Carter scores on drive on edge of lane--announcer said a foul should have been called for three point play--no foul called--Bryce argued no call
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)
15. 7:36 Felder drives lane Carter called for foul for light slap on wrist--Kampe goes irate because he thought foul should have been called on shot that Felder made but refs had called foul on floor. In essence Kampe was admitting there was no foul on floor. Kampe gets so irate he twirls around and ends up by tunnel. BAD CALL
16. 3:25 Offensive foul called on Vashil on screen--much like other screens Vashil sets--Bryce argues call.
17. 2:28 Felder drove lane knocks Carter out of bounds with his butt--much contact--announcers mention too much contact--no call.

OVERTIME:
18. 3:50 Tevonn drove lane--possible foul--no call--BAD CALL--Bryce argues call
19. 3:15 Petros gets pass in lane--foul called on Vashil (his fifth foul)--Bryce argues call and eventually gets Technical Foul called on him.
20. 2:03 Tavonn got rebound and goes up for put back--looked like foul--announcers mention possible foul--no call

Good job.

What happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?

[bbtds]

What happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?

I believe your thinking of this foul in the second half.

14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)

I didn't notice that any other calls against Peters that seemed really bad or controversial in the first half. What can I say?

[StlVUFan]

What happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?

I believe your thinking of this foul in the second half.

14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)

I didn't notice that any other calls against Peters that seemed really bad or controversial in the first half. What can I say?

No, I'm thinking of a blocking foul called on Peters in the first half (happened on the same side as the Valpo bench and the section I was sitting in.  He was standing perfectly still and he was outside the semi-circle.  It should have been a charge.

[vusupporter]

That happened against YSU.  0:39 of the highlights.  http://youtu.be/CqJ4TZgpFUQ

[Smj]

Actually guys....  I am super lucky - my wife loves basketball and used to play point guard.    She probably knows more about the game than I do.   
   

[oklahomamick]

All crap aside, what does it mean to have the same mission. Aren't both schools trying to educate kids. Teach them values they can take with them in life, ( since a very small % will make money playing basketball), be role models, give back to the community and go forward in life a better person. Just because a school is founded for different reasons, shouldn't all basketball programs be able to say that. Having been around Oakland for so long I can tell you that is their mission. The amount of community service they do is amazing. I would guess what I know of your school the same is true. So why would you not want to be associated with us.

All educational institutions have the mission to teach values, be roll models and give back to the community.  Only some are better than others at practicing that mission.  Grizz, you mention the amount of community service at Oakland.  I know there are several rankings out there but I could not find any that included Oakland.  Washington Monthly designated Valpo as #3 in the nation for its efforts in the community.  There are so many categories and different rankings today.  I find Valpo to get the notch over Oakland in several of these rankings and categories.  The two schools are very different in public vs. private, student size, community service, academics, etc. 

In my opinion, the basketball programs are very different.  As of late, Valpo basketball has seen an increase for incoming transfers.  However, none of the incoming transfers have been dismissed from their previous schools.  Valpo's program doesn't go to tournaments and return with players suspended due to rape allegations. 

Grizz, I think the two schools and basketball programs are a little different despite having the same mission.  I respectively disagree with you.