HL expansion and conference challenge

[FWalum]

UAB and Valpo joining the MVC

Very interesting article that will probably fuel the fire of the "we need a conference that aligns us with similar schools" crowd. Conference Realignment and the Big East, Wichita State, UAB and MVC

[classof2014]

If the Horizon League does pick up Northern Kentucky that just makes me want out of the Horizon League even more. Valpo is not a state commuter school, while just about all the others are. I do hope that the rumors of UAB and Valpo to the MVC have some truth to them and aren't just a thought bubble out in cyber space.

Commuter State Schools
Cleveland State
Green Bay
Milwaukee
Oakland
Wright State
Youngstown State
???Northern Kentucky???

Privates
Detroit
Valparaiso

Yes, the cost of travel would be more if we were in the MVC but we still fit geographically in the MVC, there are two other Indiana schools, and four Illinois schools, and two schools in Iowa. Really the only two schools that are a ways away are Missouri State and Wichita State.

The state to private ratio is also much better, much more like the Horizon League a few years ago when both Butler and Loyola were in the league.

State Schools
Indiana State
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Wichita State
???UAB???

Privates
Loyola
Evansville
Bradley
Drake
???Valparaiso???

Currently there are 6 state and 4 private, add UAB and Valpo there are 7 and 5. Which is much more similar to the HL of a few years ago, when it was 6 state and 4 private, which is now 7 and two and a good chance will be 8 to 2 in a few years.

If Valpo wants to compete for an at-large bid every year they need to get out of the HL, to me the HL is going in a different direction, which is fine, but the direction isn't the right way for Valpo. Valpo has the possibility of being a top-25 caliber team next season. Being in the MVC would help our chances by playing better teams on a nightly basis.

Sadly, the chances of playing Northern Kentucky twice next year compared to MVC teams twice next season are much higher but the MVC picking up two teams is a real possibility and Valpo and UAB do make sense, Valpo more-so than UAB in my mind.

[crusaderjoe]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Eastern Kentucky moves to the Sun Belt because C-USA needs to fill the void left behind by UAB football. UAB does not revive football and moves to the MVC.  The MVC stays at 11.  In response to EKU's move, the OVC offers Valpo, Wright State and one of Cleveland State/Detroit/YSU to get to 14 so that it can create two seven team divisions.  Would anyone here be in favor of that move, or would you rather stay in a more compact ten team HL with NKU as team #10 and the potential for a twelve team expansion down the road?

[oklahomamick]

I would rather stay in HL than your proposed OVC.  We have been in a weak conference before and made it to the dance several consecutive years.  Why not do it again?  Once we regularly win the HL (not just 3 out of 4 seasons) but like we did in the Mid-Con, then we should knock on MVC door. 

Let's enjoy all the dancing.  Unless we get knocked out of conference tourney and rpi is dragged down by commuter schools...

[a3uge]

The OVC is terrible. No.

You can win every regular season game and not get an at-large. A team that runs the table in the horizon would be at-large worthy.

[Kyle321n]

We won't get invited to the OVC. They are a football first conference.

[valpotx]

The OVC sucks outside of Murray State and Belmont.  Every other school has a mid-200 to 300 RPI!

[classof2014]

You can win every regular season game and not get an at-large. A team that runs the table in the horizon would be at-large worthy.

No matter how good you are it's incredibly difficult to run the table. Undefeated teams have a giant target on their backs, just look at Kentucky. When you go on the road you'll play in packed houses and teams will prepare and play their best. Chances are if we have a strong OOC and lose one or two games in the HL we'll have a shot at an at-large.

Our chances go up drastically year-in, year-out if we're in a stronger conference. Getting two games with recognizable programs helps. Splitting games with UNIs and Wichita State's when they're having good years looks really nice.

I would hate to see Valpo not make it to the tourney because we had an off night in the tournament. That's a lot less likely to happen in a stronger conference that has consistently been a 2-3 bid conference, like the MVC (with Creighton).

[crusaderjoe]

We won't get invited to the OVC. They are a football first conference.

Can't agree--if true, Belmont and SIU-E wouldn't have gotten a sniff from them.

So the general consensus is that this league:

Green Bay
Milwaukee
UIC
Valpo
Detroit
Oakland
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky

Would be better than this league:

East

Valpo
Eastern Illinois
SIU-E
SE Missouri State
UT-Martin
Murray State
Austin Peay

West

Cleveland State
Wright State
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Belmont
Tennessee Tech

The hypothetical OVC above gets us in with Belmont and Murray, provides the same amount of privates as the current HL, and is potentially more geographically compact because of a divisional alignment than our current situation.  And still our current situation is better as viewed by the responses.  And, with the NKU add, we creep our footprint more southern so as to potentially entice Belmont for all sports, while still maintaining the potential for an at large--which is something that has been argued that the above OVC can't offer.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out why there is so much trepidation for NKU as team #10 on this board given all of this.

[a3uge]

We won't get invited to the OVC. They are a football first conference.

Can't agree--if true, Belmont and SIU-E wouldn't have gotten a sniff from them.

So the general consensus is that this league:

Green Bay
Milwaukee
UIC
Valpo
Detroit
Oakland
Cleveland State
Youngstown State
Wright State
Northern Kentucky

Would be better than this league:

East

Valpo
Eastern Illinois
SIU-E
SE Missouri State
UT-Martin
Murray State
Austin Peay

West

Cleveland State
Wright State
Morehead State
Jacksonville State
Tennessee State
Belmont
Tennessee Tech

The hypothetical OVC above gets us in with Belmont and Murray, provides the same amount of privates as the current HL, and is potentially more geographically compact because of a divisional alignment than our current situation.  And still our current situation is better as viewed by the responses.  And, with the NKU add, we creep our footprint more southern so as to potentially entice Belmont for all sports, while still maintaining the potential for an at large--which is something that has been argued that the above OVC can't offer.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out why there is so much trepidation for NKU as team #10 on this board given all of this.

The OVC is terrible.

[crusaderjoe]

The OVC is terrible.

Translation:  There are worse things for Valpo conference-wise than an NKU add.

[oklahomamick]

Translation:  There are worse things for Valpo conference-wise than an NKU add.

Yeah we could join a compact geographic conference with other private schools that consistently is a 2 bid league.  Then that league could lose members and change competitiveness completely.  Oh wait, that's happened. 

[a3uge]

Translation:  There are worse things for Valpo conference-wise than an NKU add.

Yeah we could join a compact geographic conference with other private schools that consistently is a 2 bid league.  Then that league could lose members and change competitiveness completely.  Oh wait, that's happened.

We can't join a two bid league if we aren't invited to a two bid league.

[a3uge]

The OVC is terrible.

Translation:  There are worse things for Valpo conference-wise than an NKU add.

Translation: The OVC is terrible.

[valpo84]

No to NKU, IUPUI and IPFW. No to OVC.

Yes to Belmont and UAB joining HL. Travel partners as Nashville to B-ham is 3 hours south on 65. Both schools have great hoops traditions. If we are staying in HL. Also like the idea of Lipscomb.

Would move to MVC as that provides opportunities for at-large and geographic rivalries even if you stumble a couple times on the road or in the tourney.

[StlVUFan]

Selfishly, I would hate to see Valpo join the MVC as I would miss Kampe.

[bbtds]

We won't get invited to the OVC. They are a football first conference.

Morehead State is in both the OVC and PFL. Why wouldn't it be acceptable for Valpo to have football in the PFL also? Not that I'm advocating Valpo to the OVC. I agree it is not a step up for Valpo to leave the HL for the OVC. But I don't understand why the OVC can accept Morehead and object to Valpo.

[VU75]

But I don't understand why the OVC can accept Morehead and object to Valpo

Morehead State was a founding member of the OVC which means they have been in the league for over 60 years. They played over a half century of football in the conference before dropping down to non- scholarship. 

[justducky]

Selfishly, I would hate to see Valpo join the MVC as I would miss Kampe.

I think most of the drumbeat for the MVC comes from some of the same people who will miss Brian Wardle the most . I mean with him at Bradley what in the world will we have to talk about?   Boring   

[oklahomamick]

Could you imagine what the HL would do if they had to replace valpo?

[valpotx]

What a funny turn of events, that the HL would be worse off without Valpo, after basically shunning us in 1993-1994.

Does someone have physical proof that Stl is not Kampe?  Oakland can do no wrong in his world

[justducky]

So, my guess: Northern Kentucky this year and the possibility of two more teams in the future. Who knows? I certainly don't, and I am only guessing in order to further the discussion. Have at it!

Northern Kentucky today has named a new basketball head coach, John Brannen, an Alabama assistant who also was named as the Tide's interim head coach for this year's NIT. This is a good addition for NKU, which will be eligible for postseason play in 2016-2017. This also takes care of a needed step before possible addition of NKU to Horizon League, if that is the plan.

The more I look at NKU the better it feels.

New coach, new and spacious facilities, 7 miles from downtown Cincinnati and logistically a near perfect HL fit. From their standpoint travel should be 3 times easier in the HL than for the A-Sun. Ok we know the downside. Public commuter school with no history of D-1 success (because of no D-1 history).

We all know there are no perfect fits but the risk-reward for them as a HL addition look to be compelling. If they come aboard we may have no need of an 11th and 12 team unless something falls into our lap that we can not refuse. For mens basketball Oakland was a solid addition and NKU could work out even better.

[VULB#62]

Some information FWIW: NKU

5th of 8 in the A-Sun in 2015

W-L Record
2013 - 11-16
2014 -   9-21
2015 - 13-17

[bbtds]

So, my guess: Northern Kentucky this year and the possibility of two more teams in the future. Who knows? I certainly don't, and I am only guessing in order to further the discussion. Have at it!

Northern Kentucky today has named a new basketball head coach, John Brannen, an Alabama assistant who also was named as the Tide's interim head coach for this year's NIT. This is a good addition for NKU, which will be eligible for postseason play in 2016-2017. This also takes care of a needed step before possible addition of NKU to Horizon League, if that is the plan.

The more I look at NKU the better it feels.

New coach, new and spacious facilities, 7 miles from downtown Cincinnati and logistically a near perfect HL fit. From their standpoint travel should be 3 times easier in the HL than for the A-Sun. Ok we know the downside. Public commuter school with no history of D-1 success (because of no D-1 history).

We all know there are no perfect fits but the risk-reward for them as a HL addition look to be compelling. If they come aboard we may have no need of an 11th and 12 team unless something falls into our lap that we can not refuse. For mens basketball Oakland was a solid addition and NKU could work out even better.

Another important point that may or may not have been mentioned, I don't remember, NKU does have a baseball team. That was one of the sports that could potentially lose it's NCAA auto-bid if YSU was forced out or one of the other baseball schools left the conference. 

[StlVUFan]

Does someone have physical proof that Stl is not Kampe?  Oakland can do no wrong in his world

Didn't say that.