Valpo @ Green Bay - Friday 1/23/15, 8pm CT

[HC]

He was already crowned, along with the entire GB team, by the HL before the season started.

[valporun]

I saw a lot of arms being heavy on our shots from the GB defense. Whenever we were at the rim, GB would get their hands and arms in enough to keep us from getting the ball up to the backboard or rim. While in many previous games, the refs would have called these every time, tonight's officiating crew let the two teams on the court decide the outcome by hard, tough, physical play. GB's zone was tough all night. They anticipated passing lanes and where we were passing the ball, instead of waiting to see what we would do. They came prepared on defense tonight. We also had strong defense, but we just couldn't get shots to fall in the second half. Not every shot was a bad shot, some were just defended better than others. In recent weeks, we hadn't had as competitive a game between the two teams on the court as we saw tonight. I get where some of you were disappointed, and I get where some are glad that the game was competitive and close, but we'd also not had a game that was this competitive or close from beginning to end in weeks. We'd either been in blowouts or games that we put away in the last 5-8 minutes. (Grizz, yes we lost to Oakland, but that one loss was between the New Mexico game and tonight.) We currently have 4 losses in 22 games. When was the last time we lost our 4th game of the season near the end of January? In my years of following Valpo basketball, we already had four losses  by the time conference play started. This was a good game to watch. I enjoyed it. I didn't like the outcome, but I was happy with how well both teams were defensively, and how they both showed they were ready for this game.

[SanityLost17]

I have mixed feelings about this game.  I will need to see the reply before I decide exactly what happened.

I am thinking both teams played very good defense, but neither were exactly at the top of their game offensively either.  I mean, that 2nd half was pretty ugly and while I do think defense caused a good portion of it, it can't account for all of it.  Lots of teams around the country play great defense, but rarely do you see 2 teams score less than 20 points in the 2nd half. 

Right now I am leaning toward....Great Defenses with simultaneous offensive ineptitude.  Both teams could have performed a lot better on the offensive end in the 2nd half, regardless of defensive intensity from the other side.  That said, I was entertained by the game and am not very upset with the result.  Looked like 2 very evenly matched teams playing hard.

BTW...  I watched the game out our athletic trainer's house, because I don't get ESPNU.  I asked her about a dislocated toe.  She said, "if there is a torn ligament/tendon, which there usually is, you are usually looking at 6-8 weeks.  If there is no tear, you are looking at 2-3 weeks."  She followed it up with, "a dislocated toe with a torn tendon is a BIG deal and requires quite a bit of physical therapy."         

[StlVUFan]

What did you want Alec to do on one good wheel against that zone?

Had already forgotten about that first half accident! That would explain a lot.

They probably should have called a foul on that play.

[justducky]

BTW...  I watched the game out our athletic trainer's house, because I don't get ESPNU.  I asked her about a dislocated toe.  She said, "if there is a torn ligament/tendon, which there usually is, you are usually looking at 6-8 weeks.  If there is no tear, you are looking at 2-3 weeks."  She followed it up with, "a dislocated toe with a torn tendon is a BIG deal and requires quite a bit of physical therapy."         

So you are telling us that next season we will not only have Lexus back but Keith as well?      waaa---waaaa   

29 minutes for EVN. He may not be able to walk for a week!

[StlVUFan]

1.  Due to the substandard camera view (from 30,000 feet most of the time), it is kind of hard for me to evaluate the refs.  All of the questionable plays in the final minute were replayed with a closeup view and every one looked like the right call.  The rest of the game?  Hard for me to judge.  I hesitate to decry *or* applaud.  I do think Peters got fouled on that made 3.  I also thought Skara got away with a shove earlier in the game.

2.  If you are going to insist that we suck because of this game, (a) you're going to also have to insist that GB sucked in this game too, (b) and you're going to have to explain how Green Bay's defense had nothing to do with it.  I'm sorry, I've heard nothing on (b) so far in this thread.  I'll go with Todd's description: great defense.  By the way, Green Bay was stuck on 43 for a *long* time.  What's your explanation of that?  Either they suck too (and I did hear that a few times here) or else we played incredible defense.

3.  I waver slightly between "glass half-empty" and "glass half-full", but I refuse to sign on with "glass is empty".  If either one of Tevonn's layups in the final minute goes in, we're 6-1 and they're 5-2.

4.  Outcoached?  Please explain.  I'm not on board with saying either guy got outcoached until someone backs it up with some facts.

5.  Failing any such data, I'm going with "very exciting game, hard fought, tip your cap to GB".

6.  The only bad thing about losing this game is not being able to stuff a loss down the throats of the idiot GB fans I heard over the WVUR broadcast, especially booing loudly that offensive foul on Fouse which was absolutely the right call.  Not that they're any worse than the hometown fans of any other team, including Valpo's, but tonight, I would have loved to steal a win there just to torment them further.

[valpopal]

I expected Green Bay to win at home even if both teams were at full strength, but with Carter out and Peters hurt in the first half, it was an accomplishment to come within a final missed shot of obtaining an upset. If Carter can return by the time Green Bay comes to the ARC, I'm hopeful Valpo will hold serve at home.


I must admit my attention to the game was distracted somewhat by the possibly more important news that Lexus had re-injured his knee during pre-game shooting, which was also on the minds of his concerned teammates.

[wh]

I have mixed feelings about this game.  I will need to see the reply before I decide exactly what happened.

I am thinking both teams played very good defense, but neither were exactly at the top of their game offensively either.  I mean, that 2nd half was pretty ugly and while I do think defense caused a good portion of it, it can't account for all of it.  Lots of teams around the country play great defense, but rarely do you see 2 teams score less than 20 points in the 2nd half. 

Right now I am leaning toward....Great Defenses with simultaneous offensive ineptitude.  Both teams could have performed a lot better on the offensive end in the 2nd half, regardless of defensive intensity from the other side.  That said, I was entertained by the game and am not very upset with the result.  Looked like 2 very evenly matched teams playing hard.

BTW...  I watched the game out our athletic trainer's house, because I don't get ESPNU.  I asked her about a dislocated toe.  She said, "if there is a torn ligament/tendon, which there usually is, you are usually looking at 6-8 weeks.  If there is no tear, you are looking at 2-3 weeks."  She followed it up with, "a dislocated toe with a torn tendon is a BIG deal and requires quite a bit of physical therapy."         

Just got home and have enjoyed reading everyone's comments.  My feelings are probably pretty close to Sanity's. It's frustrating on one hand to think we had a golden opportunity to pull the game out and didn't. On the other hand, we battled from beginning to end and gave Green Bay a real run for their money. To lose by a point on their home court without KC to run the offense, feed the post, and score over the zone is nothing to be ashamed of. A win would have been great for sure, but there is still a lot of basketball yet to be played.  At this point I still like our chances.     

[wh]

Post game press conference

http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500

[wh]

Oren's article mentions that Lexus re-injured his right knee while participating in pre-game warm-ups, had to be carried off the court, and came back to watch the game in a wheel chair.  That would be disastrous if he re-tore his ACL.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Oh. NO.

...Kyrie, eleison!

[a3uge]

Not all that concerned with the outcome - we tend to struggle in these horizon league sloggfests. We're not a team that wins with its physicality. The refs seemed to let a lot of contact go at the rim, which essentially meant the 3 point line could be taken away. We did a good job matching their physicality at the other end, but did a poor job finishing at the rim on offense (tevon), and didn't really look to kick when penetrating. Only had 5 assists.

I can't say that either team was out-coached in a 50-51 game. Sykes had 11 points on 17 shots, and Green Bay looked tired by the end of the game. Maybe their bench is just terrible, but they didn't play much at all. When Carter comes back, hopefully Valpo's bench looks much better - the lack of backup guards make it hard for someone to come in and be a "spark off the bench."

[FWalum]

As far as not getting to the finals last year, I would mention in passing that his 2 NBA players were both not 100% at the time.  Recently watched some video of that game and Sykes toughed it out but was limping and Brown just played bad.  Don't know that this is Wardle's fault totally.  However, he owns his coaching style and treatment of players which was so elegantly aired for all to read. Wardle retained despite allegations

Even though Sykes was playing injured you can still put quite a bit of blame on Wardle for the loss to UWM. A good coach would have his team prepared for a big game like this and would have his team ready to play with a not 100% Sykes, who even impaired was better than a majority of UWM's players. I'm not blaming Wardle for Brown's poor play but shouldn't a first-teamer be prepared for the opportunity to play in the NCAAs. The lack of the team preparedness I do blame on the coach, it is up to him to instill confidence in his players to go in a take down a mediocre to sub-par Milwaukee team in order to advance to the finals.

GB wasn't ready for the game. That's poor coaching in my mind. UWM was, Jeter should've been coach of the year last season. Milwaukee was expected to do nothing and they won the championship and played great when it mattered most.

I don't like Wardle and never will. I think he's a great recruiter, got two NBAers on his team and both were playing there at once and couldn't even make it to the HL finals. Until Wardle proves he can do something more than make it past the first round of the tourney in my mind he's not a great coach, not to mention the numerous allegations of him in the past.

I don't know that I disagree with you, you have some very valid points.  I was just putting it in perspective with our situation.

[FWalum]

Not all that concerned with the outcome - we tend to struggle in these horizon league sloggfests. We're not a team that wins with its physicality.

I agree in general, but watching this team I think they have played a more physical game then in the past, lead by Tevonn.  Some of his rebounds last night showed a gritty tenacity and athletic ability that is not seen from many guards.  For the stat guys out there, when was the last time we had a guard get 13 rebounds?

[crusadermoe]

I'm not a basketball expert at all, but HC and the others make sense about strong D for both teams.    Alex seemed injured after landing on a GB foot on his nice 3-pointer.   I think he would have taken the VU shot in the last two tries.   Why did Tevonn drive at the 10 second mark?

Hi Grizz!   Great to see you threatening to drive to Mayberry with a bet and grabbing the fishing pole in Opie style.  I bet youz recall my silver spoon jibes about OU having "champaign wishes and caviar dreams."   I think that dialog is circa 2002 from my former msg.board name..     

If GB and VU tie at the top I think "best win" takes the prize.   At least VU beat CSU which is a sure 3rd if we do tie GB.  Now we need the GB win at home twice over.   Ties them and ensures we win if CSU sneaks into a 1st place tie.    After that who knows how far down the ladder the "best win" contest will fall. 

[Smj]

I think Wartle should have done the honorable thing for this game ... and played this game without a pointguard. 

(btw - name spelling is intentional)

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Why did Tevonn drive at the 10 second mark?

I actually REALLY liked that play, though not the result.

Here's why:  they are thinking you are going to play for the last shot (just took last TO, fr'instance).  In the back of their minds, even as you penetrate, they still think you'll probably kick it back outside and start again.  So you're taking them by surprise, for one.

And two, if for some reason it doesn't work out, you foul what feels like the worst FT-shooting team since That Game of All Shaqs In That One Commercial, and try again.

It was like a 2-for-1, as it were.

[Chairback]

Due to the substandard camera view (from 30,000 feet most of the time), it is kind of hard for me to evaluate the refs.

I thought the same thing!  It seemed like the game was 8 miles away watching it.

[atkins]

Interesting comments comparing Rowdy and Alec.  I agree with HC's thoughts. 

I do think that Rowdy was better than Alec is at this point in their respective careers.  Rowdy moved more fluidly and had a softer touch.  I believe that Rowdy also was better defensively.  Hopefully, Alec will catch up and propel past Rowdy in a couple of years.  Alec is a more vocal leader, which is important.  Wouldn't it be fun to see them on the court together?

[valpo84]

Let's see:

Two injured PGs
Best player/leading scorer hobbled for 2d half
On the HL road
2 for a gazillion in 2d half

And we lose by 1 with 2 chances to win in final seconds. As Bob Knight would say that's pretty good -- give us a chance on the last possession.

What was frustrating was about mid2d half, we did not look to make the pass to Alec in the post or to allow him to take advantage of the mismatches down low. He needs to touch the ball just to keep the rest of D honest. Our guards seemed tentative to throw entry pass. That's where Boggs and Bogan were effective.

Vashil has to hit FTs. And as someone emphasized on another game Wed, when inside go up and dunk the ball, make them foul you that the ref can't swallow his whistle.

Who predicted 6-2 1st half of season? We are where we thought we'd be. Relax and enjoy this team.

[StlVUFan]

Due to the substandard camera view (from 30,000 feet most of the time), it is kind of hard for me to evaluate the refs.

I thought the same thing!  It seemed like the game was 8 miles away watching it.

Due to the substandard camera view (from 30,000 feet most of the time), it is kind of hard for me to evaluate the refs.

I thought the same thing!  It seemed like the game was 8 miles away watching it.

The PBP team was even further away than that.  I'm not kidding.

[usc4valpo]

Smj - similar to the movie Gangs of New York where the Butcher and Amsterdam Vallon agree to have a good gang fight without guns?

[classof2014]

This was a fun game to watch. Yes, it sucks that we lost but it shows that we can very easily beat this team. Sykes was essentially shut down throughout the whole game, which very few, I mean very few teams have been able to do. EVN is becoming much more comfortable running the point.

Good defense lead to some terrible offense and poor shot selection for both teams. We didn't play our best game yet we still could have come out of that one with the W. This team is special, we lost on the road by 1 without our regular PG, to a very good team that is incredibly difficult to beat at home.

It's very difficult to beat a team 3 times in a season. Use this game as motivation for the rest of the season. I like our chances at going to the NCAAs this season. We should've beaten the "best" team in the conference, on the road, without our PG.

[historyman]

It's very difficult to beat a team 3 times in a season.

You need to qualify this. Of the 9 teams in the HL there are only 3 to 4 that we wouldn't expect to beat 3 times in a season. In reality it isn't as hard to beat "a team" three times in a season.


During the last 4 seasons or so I would say we could beat 40% to 50% of the teams 3 times in a season and have many times.

[Kyle321n]

It's very difficult to beat a team 3 times in a season.

You need to qualify this. Of the 9 teams in the HL there are only 3 to 4 that we wouldn't expect to beat 3 times in a season. In reality it isn't as hard to beat "a team" three times in a season.


During the last 4 seasons or so I would say we could beat 40% to 50% of the teams 3 times in a season and have many times.

Time to do some sluething. Because I'm good at that.

Since joining the Horizon League we've played what I'm going to call a triple a total of 14 times. Of those 14 triples, we won the first two meetings 9 times. Here's how we faired in the finale of those triples.

Mar 7, 2008- Wright State: After winning at Wright St. in early December to open HL season, we won an OT thriller at home in March to close the HL season. In the tourney we beat them a third time in the 2nd round. WSU was a respectable 12-6 and we were underdogs in the final game.
Mar 1, 2011- Youngstown St.: We beat them at home in January, on the road in February and at home again in March. None of the games were remarkably close and YSU had 2 conference wins that season.
Mar 4, 2011- Detroit: The games were decided by 10, 8, and 10. Young Ray Jr. wasn't quite the thorn in our side at this point.
Mar 3, 2012- Butler: You guys remember when we beat the back to back National Runners-up thrice in one season? Remember how the last games wasn't even close? Let's not talk about the game that took place three days after this.
Mar 6, 2012- Detroit: I guess we do have to talk about this. We beat them there, we beat them here and the less that's talked about this game, the better.
Mar 9, 2013- Green Bay: Seven days prior we went up to their house and beat them. After surviving a 1 point scare vs. UIC, Green Bay was at our house for this thriller, complete with "The Shot From Down Under".
Mar 12, 2013- Wright State: After winning by 6 at home in January and by 7 on the road in February, it would only make sense that we punched our NCAA ticket with an 8 point win in March.
Mar 4, 2014- UIC: Unfortunately for us Milwaukee ruined Flameout 2014. But we finished their dreadful season with a 10 point win in the ARC.
Mar 7, 2014-Milwaukee: We beat the eventual NCAA representatives twice, but we couldn't complete the triple with a victory. To say this game was disappointing is an understatement.

We've fallen victim to losing the triple twice since joining the HL
Mar 8, 2008- Cleveland St.: We lost to a pretty good Cleveland St. team that had a freshman by the name of Norris Cole.
Mar 3, 2009- Wright State: Oh yeah we don't talk about this season.

7-2 when trying to beat a team for the third time in a season. I could see us getting a 10th chance this season in our 15th overall triple.