Obama criticizes crusades

[wh]

From today's National Prayer Breakfast:

But Mr. Obama said Christians shouldn't claim any historical high ground about religious-inspired violence, and said the U.S. has not been immune from such examples.

"Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," Mr. Obama said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ. It is not unique to one group or one religion. There is a tendency in us, a sinful tendency, that can pervert and distort our faith."

Catholic League President Bill Donohue said Mr. Obama should apologize for "an attempt to deflect guilt from Muslim madmen." He said the president's comparisons to the Crusades and the Inquisition were "insulting" to Christians.

"Obama's ignorance is astounding, and his comparison is pernicious," Mr. Donohue said. "The Crusades were a defensive Christian reaction against Muslim madmen of the Middle Ages."



Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/5/obama-people-faith-must-confront-insults-religion/#ixzz3QtnF0l4R
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[Kyle321n]

Man we're 21-4 what does he have against us? Does he not like our strength of schedule?

[Donjon VU07]

Is it 2016 yet?

[VU75]

"We are hard-pressed to find anything in these disastrous waves of fighting that our Lord might have approved, despite the fact that the conflict was ostensibly carried out in his name."

Wheaton College President Duane Litfin on why Wheaton College dropped the Crusader nickname

[valporun]

Oh if 2008 Rick was still here, he'd have scads of newspaper stories about this attached to the thread, and be begging liberals to defend what they can't talk about. Those from previous incarnations of this forum remember how many posts he would have in favor of the Republican party, and would never discuss them, just demand that we either counter with liberal talking points that would shut him up, or agree with his side of the story.

[crusadermoe]

One side will martyr itself and think nothing of murder in the name of its cause.

The other side has a respect for human life a hesitance to kill civilians, and wants to put prisoners of war on civilian trial.   

Who do you think wins?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I don't care what side of the aisle you'd sit on...surely we can agree that it's embarrassing to have a president who's a complete failure at knowing/understanding world history.

[classof2014]

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have bigger fish to fry than calling out athletic programs that use a mascot that might of had a violent past. A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

If Obama doesn't want Crusaders then basically every other war/warrior mascot should have been brought up.

In the HL then... Cleveland State shouldn't be the Vikings because Vikings weren't nice people who pillaged and ravaged communities throughout Scandinavian Europe. The Raiders shouldn't be the Raiders because they are like a Viking and pillage and ravage towns for fun... which also isn't nice.

To me the President should spend his time figuring out solutions to legitimate problems in the United States... Like the gang violence in our cities, the children who go hungry every night. There is a reason why America isn't the power it once was, is it all Obama's fault? No. But maybe if our politicians focused on the real problems we might actually start making some headway as a country once again.

[a3uge]

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have bigger fish to fry than calling out athletic programs that use a mascot that might of had a violent past. A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

If Obama doesn't want Crusaders then basically every other war/warrior mascot should have been brought up.

He was talking about the crusades, not mascots.

[classof2014]

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have bigger fish to fry than calling out athletic programs that use a mascot that might of had a violent past. A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

If Obama doesn't want Crusaders then basically every other war/warrior mascot should have been brought up.

He was talking about the crusades, not mascots.

I know that but he basically stated that Christians should be ashamed of the Crusades, I know it wasn't about mascots. It was about the historical event of the Crusades. In a way it was about Valparaiso University affiliating themselves with Crusaders. If Obama is saying that Christians shouldn't be proud of the Crusaders; then Scandinavians shouldn't affiliate themselves with the Vikings, etc...

It wasn't directed at universities but the American public, which does include Valparaiso University.

[a3uge]

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have bigger fish to fry than calling out athletic programs that use a mascot that might of had a violent past. A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

If Obama doesn't want Crusaders then basically every other war/warrior mascot should have been brought up.

He was talking about the crusades, not mascots.

I know that but he basically stated that Christians should be ashamed of the Crusades, I know it wasn't about mascots. It was about the historical event of the Crusades. In a way it was about Valparaiso University affiliating themselves with Crusaders. If Obama is saying that Christians shouldn't be proud of the Crusaders; then Scandinavians shouldn't affiliate themselves with the Vikings, etc...

It wasn't directed at universities but the American public, which does include Valparaiso University.

This is true. Never thought the Crusaders was an offensive name, however, from the beginning Ive despised the old Disney logo since I first saw it.

[Kyle321n]

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have bigger fish to fry than calling out athletic programs that use a mascot that might of had a violent past. A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

If Obama doesn't want Crusaders then basically every other war/warrior mascot should have been brought up.

He was talking about the crusades, not mascots.

I know that but he basically stated that Christians should be ashamed of the Crusades, I know it wasn't about mascots. It was about the historical event of the Crusades. In a way it was about Valparaiso University affiliating themselves with Crusaders. If Obama is saying that Christians shouldn't be proud of the Crusaders; then Scandinavians shouldn't affiliate themselves with the Vikings, etc...

It wasn't directed at universities but the American public, which does include Valparaiso University.

It was actually more about Christians trying to claim morale high ground because their religion doesn't commit acts of terrorism and only Muslims are guilty of such extreme violence. He picked a bad example, but he could have pulled out countless other examples.

No religion is without their nutbars and I think that's what he was trying to say. We shouldn't classify them by their religion as that only adds fuel to their fire. Call them terrorists and if they are from the same country where the act was perpetrated then call them domestic terrorists and if they are from another country call them foreign terrorists. If their group has a name call the the _Group Name_ Terrorists. We'll never get to that point because we'll have people on Faux News saying there are Islamic no-go zones in London and Paris and then we'll have people who go to townhall meetings regurgitate those "facts" to elected officials asking them how we can prevent that from happening in their home towns.

[VU75]

Catholic League President Bill Donohue said Mr. Obama should apologize f

Keep in mind that Bill Donohue also criticized President Bush for Christmas cards that said "Happy Holidays", stated that the Charlie Hedbo editors played a role in their own massacre, believes that marriage is about "having a family" and not about love or happiness, and that the stories about pedophile priests was a campaign to discredit the Vatican's authority. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

It was actually more about Christians trying to claim morale high ground because their religion doesn't commit acts of terrorism and only Muslims are guilty of such extreme violence. He picked a bad example, but he could have pulled out countless other examples.

This is embarrassing historical equivalence from you.  Even the president of the US had to stretch back several centuries to try to find a parallel--a completely wrong one, but at least he was trying.

You, who would never say anything as stupid as "Duke and P.S. 182 are basically the same because they are both schools and have basketball teams"...just said something functionally equivalent.

Anyone who thinks that you can paint all religions with a broad brush as equally "nut job" or "terrorist" is so wrongheaded as to be willfully ignorant.

...and then there's VU75 flaunting his own right there too.  At least you're all not alone.  I envy you the simple world you inhabit.

[vu84v2]

I have always had some ambivalence about the nickname Crusaders. I have worked with muslims and worked in muslim countries and, while I will speak highly of my alma mater, I avoid wearing anything that says "Crusaders" (whether I am here or abroad). If you look at various definitions online, the name Crusaders has a strong affiliation with those who fought in the name of christianity during the crusades, and from what I know some of those people did some terrible things. That said, I have never heard any muslim students or faculty at Valparaiso express any concern about the nickname, and they, along with potential students, would be the most important stakeholders when considering whether the nickname should change.

I think that it is safe to say that anyone that does terrible things in the name of whatever religion they follow is evil, regardless of whether they call themselves christian or muslim or whatever. I just worry that people don't recognize that the vast vast majority of christians, muslims, etc. are good people that seek the same worthy things in their lives. Perhaps this is what President Obama tries to convey, though the message seems to get confusing at times.

[valpotx]

Dang, I had hoped that the Crusader mascot discussions were over!  This has been going on since my first day on campus in 1999 (and probably before)!  I heard about it then, and still hear about it now.  It is a mascot, and is not a racist term of any sort.  It's not like we are that California HS that used to have their mascot as the 'Arabs,' and had a mascot with a huge nose and large mustache.  Our guy used to be Little Caesar in a suit of armor, and is now a faceless knight guy.

[agibson]

I don't care what side of the aisle you'd sit on...surely we can agree that it's embarrassing to have a president who's a complete failure at knowing/understanding world history.

I don't follow.  You're agreeing with Donohue?

[agibson]

A Crusader is basically a European warrior from a thousand years ago. So by saying that athletic programs should be ashamed of themselves for identifying them selves with a Crusader or other like mascot is ridiculous.

We could be the Knights, right?  A crusader's not the same thing.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I don't care what side of the aisle you'd sit on...surely we can agree that it's embarrassing to have a president who's a complete failure at knowing/understanding world history.

I don't follow.  You're agreeing with Donohue?

I'm agreeing with history.  Only post-Saïd (and his ilk) did the Muslims stop bragging about their victories in the Crusades and start complaining about 'hegemonic colonialism' etc.

[setshot]

Obama was right on in his criticism of the Crusades. An article "The First Victims of the First Crusade" by Susan Jacoby recently appeared in the Sunday Times. The crusaders started off by killing Jews in Trier and Mainz in preparation for the invasion of The Holy Land. Over 700 Jews were slaughtered in Mainz alone. So you "cultural ignoramuses" need to read up on the First Crusades.----- Go Obama you got it right.

[valpo64]

That might be the only thing on which Obama has been right.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

For those of you not too old to fix your opinions:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[LaPorteAveApostle]

And for those of you interested in the facts:

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2009/06/inventing-the-crusades

And for those of you who grow tired of Obama criticizing everyone but the obvious (himself):

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-obama-the-theologian.html?rref=collection/column/ross-douthat&_r=0

[vu72]

And for those of you interested in the facts:

http://www.firstthings.com/article/2009/06/inventing-the-crusades

And for those of you who grow tired of Obama criticizing everyone but the obvious (himself):

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-obama-the-theologian.html?rref=collection/column/ross-douthat&_r=0

That's a lot of great information.  Thanks for posting it.

[wh]

State Dept. Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf was on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews yesterday. She said that "we cannot win this war by killing them (ISIS). We cannot kill our way out of this war. We need in the medium to longer term to go after the root causes that leads people to join these groups, whether it's lack of opportunity for jobs...".

Lack of opportunity for jobs?!  Are you kidding?  Where did she get that - from a Social Problems 101 class about why kids in the inner city join gangs?  Even Matthews (famous for saying he got a thrill up his leg watching Obama's inauguration) could hardly believe what he was hearing. The Obama "team" is so far in over their heads that to call them a JV team (like Obama called ISIS only a few months ago) would be an insult to JV teams everywhere.  The 2016 elections can't get here fast enough. Like everyone else I'll have a favorite for our next President, but at this point I'll gladly settle for ANYONE from either party over Obama and his clueless ideologically driven minions.