Valpo in the National Rankings

[agibson]

Maybe we should move the national rankings to their own thread?  It feels a bit... underwhelming... to discuss them on the mid-major thread.

To list a few references, bookmarks for myself if nothing else, I've been appreciating

Warren Nolan
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2015/schedule/Valparaiso
for his historical ranking lists of the AP and Coaches', and numbering the places past 25.

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/
for having a nice interface to get at some recent historical info, and the voters' individual ballots for the AP.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/index.cfm
has what seems like a comprehensive archive of the AP poll.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2015-polls.html
has a pretty useful archive of both polls, but nothing beyond #25?

I believe that this season, starting with the Feb 2 poll, is the first time _ever_ that we've received votes in both polls simultaneously. 
I believe we've only received votes in the AP poll twice before this season, in the 2012-2013 pre-season poll where we had three points and in the March 11, 2013 poll where we received one point. [Edited 11/16/15]

We were nationally ranked in the coaches' poll, only, after the Sweet 16 run.  #23.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/1998-polls.html
We also received votes in the coaches' poll for four weeks in the 2010-2011 season (weeks 13-16) [added 11/16/15]
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2011/schedule/Valparaiso

[agibson]

Probably this week's AP poll is our highest ranking, and our most points/votes, in that poll ever?

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/2014/week-15

With three voters, good for 8 points (25, 25, 20), and tied for 34th place.

John Feinstein from last week, and who's been with us periodically this season.  Seth Davis as we learned from Twitter. 

Doug Doughty with the Roanoke Times has as us at _20_.  He had UWGB at 23 earlier this season, and it feels like he's voted for us in years past (or maybe I'm just thinking of Ben Boggs).

Stephen F. Austin goes from 22 points to zero, on their conference loss.  We're still behind Murray State who climbs to 38 points (Dick Vitale has them at #19!).

Indiana falls below us (!), but is still receiving votes.  Dayton and Michigan State enter the poll this week, above us.

[agibson]

We don't gain quite as well in the Coaches' Poll.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/poll/2/week/15/seasontype/2

But, still, up to 8 points.  And #35.  (For one week in the 2011 season we were ranked as high as 30th.  Or, of course, #23 in 1998.)

VCU loses most of their points on their loss, falling out of the top 25 to #26.  Stephen Austin, somewhat mysteriously, loses only a couple of points on their loss.  Murray State gains a couple, and they're both ahead of us (12, 10 points to our 8).  Dayton jumps ahead of us.  As does Georgetown.

[truth219]

If we win out is cracking the top 25 possible?

[agibson]

If we win out is cracking the top 25 possible?

It's a tough question!  No neat mathematical answer like "What will our RPI be?".  Not even the same more-or-less understood set of guidelines that the NCAA selection committee receives.  Just a collection of writers, and coaches, under instructions to name the best 25 teams in the country.

National attention, media, social media, etc. could certainly matter.  Momentum can matter (in the voting as well as on the basketball court).  Big wins, or narrow wins, can matter.

I'm still tempted by a quick "no".  But, the bottom few of the top 25 do seem still to be pretty fluid.  But, VCU, a current team on the 25/26 line, has a _lot_ prettier resumee than we do.

[agibson]

If we win out is cracking the top 25 possible?

Or, here's the reply I gave last night:

If Valpo wins out any possibility of us being ranked?

I'm tempted to give a quick no.

But, it is fun to think about.

Tomorrow will be an interesting test, after a decent win, and another expected win.  And a little help from Stephen F Austin.  Can we gain a little momentum with voters? At least a second AP vote?  And some additional coaches votes?  Maybe a place, or most of a place, in the MM top 25?

Seems like if you're in the top 25 you should be practically a shoe-in for an at-large.  And, winning out, it feels like we're in no kind of shoe-in at large position.  Bubble discussion, maybe, but outside looking in.  We're talking high 40's RPI?  Maybe high 30's if we win out the tournament.  With easy beefs to pick re quality wins, medium-bad losses, and SOS.

At-large caliber would be ~12 seed caliber?

Top 25 would be 6-7 seed?

Anyway, no, I'm not feeling top 25.  But, it'd be good momentum for the NCAA.  A nice win streak!

So, we have a little momentum going in the AP poll.  Not as much in the coaches' poll, but we're not sliding _backwards_ there.

Could a decisive win over Wright State (30?) help get the snowball rolling?  With a couple of key losses from other teams in the top-30, and the 25-30 range?   A solid win _at_ Cleveland State?  Victories over Oakland and UWGB in the tourney to close the deal?

I'm sure there are scenarios where it could come together.  Some claim that we still have an outside chance at an at-large even with a loss in the conference tourney... I'm certainly not holding my breath!

[vu84v2]

Need to get Tom Keegan here in Lawrence to get Valparaiso in his rankings. Keegan is a good writer and a fair guy.

[agibson]

Tweet him a tweet!

[vu84v2]

No, I will send him an email tomorrow or Wednesday to justify why Valpo should get a vote from him (at least 25). Lots of good reasons, though laying an egg in Missouri does not help sell yourself in Lawrence. Still, Keegan is a fair guy and there is good reason to give them a vote.

[historyman]

Just a collection of writers, and coaches, under instructions to name the best 25 teams in the country.

And yet that is exactly what the top 25 poll actually is. The opinion of that collection of people put to a vote with a numerical outcome based on the thoughts of those people. It amazes me sometimes why it is so important to so many fans and others involved in college athletics.

[Valpower]

And yet that is exactly what the top 25 poll actually is. The opinion of that collection of people put to a vote with a numerical outcome based on the thoughts of those people. It amazes me sometimes why it is so important to so many fans and others involved in college athletics.

It's less an opinion of who's good as who's worthy of media coverage. This is why it matters, especially to mid-majors and their fans.

[FWalum]

It's less an opinion of who's good as who's worthy of media coverage. This is why it matters, especially to mid-majors and their fans.

Couldn't agree more.  I think this push began with the VU @ WGB game followed up with the return game at the ARC.  Great games creating some buzz that got both teams some media attention. Great for the HL to have two spots in Sunday's Sportscenter Top 10. Tevonn winning the weekly Lou Henson award was certainly facilitated by the national ranking, Top 10 highlight and probably Bryce's success and celebrity. March Madness is already revving up as witnessed by the pictures of "young Bryce" and stills of "the shot" being bookmarked around our game broadcasts.

[agibson]

Seth Davis keeps us at #25, so we're still alive in the AP poll (and why not?  WSU's nothing special, but the win streak continues, the win total grows, we're still hoping to gain momentum here!).

[tweet]569668369613516802[/tweet]

I think he jumped up VCU from unranked to #23, ahead of us. Dropped Butler to #24 but kept them in.  Murray State he kept at #22.

[agibson]

And we continue to take some flak on twitter for it.

[tweet]569669550930849792[/tweet]

[tweet]569668982313226240[/tweet]

[SanityLost17]

Maryland only played 1 out of conference road game...  They can go F*** themselves.   

[agibson]

[tweet]569671643217465345[/tweet]

Well done!

[agibson]

Maryland only played 1 out of conference road game...  They can go F*** themselves.   

[tweet]569673294904889344[/tweet]

#ValpoNation - represent!

[talksalot]

Most wins. {period}

Through games 2/21... except as noted. 
1 Kentucky 27 0 100.0
2 Gonzaga 28 1 96.6
3 Virginia 25 1 96.2   (includes win over FSU on Sunday)   
4 UNI 26 2 92.9
5 Villanova 25 2 92.6
  Wisconsin 25 2 92.6
7 Wichita St. 25 3 89.3 (includes win over Evansville on Sunday)
8 Valparaiso 25 4 86.2

[bbtds]

No, it's not easy playing on the road during non-conference, is it TERRAfied-pins







Maybe we should try justducky's idea on the suburban DC team. That would be a fine how-do-you-do to the B1G team!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

#ValpoNation - represent!

careful don't cheese off the admin here

[a3uge]

If Maryland wants to join a weaker conference to improve their ranking, I'm sure the Horizon would gladly take them in

[a3uge]

If Maryland wants to join a weaker conference to improve their ranking, I'm sure the Horizon would gladly take them in

[LaPorteAveApostle]

oh man double posting your slander will not get you back into 04's good graces

[valpo84]

Maryland already joined a weaker conference (rimshot/cymbal). Agree that if Maryland wants to play someone, anyone on the road in non-conf, they are welcome to come to the ARC. Sounds like a nice 2 for 1. The last time we played Maryland was 1999 in Orlando against a team that would win the Tourney in 2002 -- TMorris was unstoppable in that game. Stevie Francis was really good too. Juan Dixon was a pretty good freshman. Add in size with Baxter and Ekezie and it's easy to see why they were a #2 seed and a favorite to make it to Final Four. This was during a stretch when we seemed to draw a later-to-be national champion (Arizona in 96 won in 97; Maryland in 1999, won in 2002; Michigan State in 2001/won in 2001).

[oklahomamick]

bracketology has us against Maryland in Pittsburg.