Rule changes in college basketball

[usc4valpo]

I was watching College Hoop Gameday where they are discussing various topics and proposing rule changes. As I reflect on the Valpo-CSU game last night and listening to these guys, I thought about what would be good for college basketball.

1. Shot clock needs to be reduced to no more than 30 seconds. The game requires more tempo. Being very pro-NBA, Stephen A. Smith recommended a 24 second shot clock and no zone defense. I do not go for that, but I would like to see a little more finesse and less 50-49 results. I think you will still see aggressive defense witj this change.

2. The proposal of revisiting freshman sitting out for a year is crap. Let them show their skills. Freshmen need comradery; this rule prohibits that.

3. This is a little radical - to reduce physical play
    - make the free throw area international
    - increase the floor width 5  feet.  Kids are bigger and stronger these days and more space is required.

4.  For crying out loud, please get rid of the alternating possession.  Do it NBA style.

5.  Enforce the 3 second violation rule.

[valpo84]

There do not need to be any rule changes in CBB. Please don't make it like the NBA where 95% of the games are not worth watching.

What needs to be done to free the flow is call the fouls in the rule book. Ex. Charlie Lee hanging on KC every possession. Ex. 2 jersey grabbing of Peters on every cut. Ex 3 quit calling flops and quit calling blocks/charges where the player is set but the other player seeks to avoid the contact. That's just from last night. CBB is still about designing Ds and designing Os. Being creative and letting the game reset itself. Also, if you want to improve O, the NBAPA needs to go to the mandatory 2 or 3 year rule of the. NFL or the MLB rule. Too many good players leave college early that should stay and develop their offensive games. Think about 2 or 3 years of that UK squad or Okafor at Duke. Heck, if Wiggins and Jabari were still in college how much better would offensive games be. The reason why. CBB was so good in the 80s was because players had to play 3 yrs and Ewing, Sampson, Jordan, Akeem, Drexler, Perkins, worthy, Barkley, Berry, Mullins, etc. we're still in college. And look how they turned out.

[usc4valpo]

To be fair, Garnett, Bryant, James, McGrady and some of these one and doners have not done bad either.

I do not want college hoop to be like the NBA.  I do want a little tempo and finesse - the game is starting to get a little too physical. Reducing the shot clock to 30 seconds would help.

[oklahomamick]

This will kill CSU strategy.  You know they don't want this.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Freshmen need comradery

so send 'em to siberia for a year

[usc4valpo]

ok, that was pretty slick Apostle. Heck, I even went to the dictionary to make sure I had the correct spelling! That hurts!!

[LaPorteAveApostle]

not picking on you.  i just pick on words : )

[vu84v2]

Thoughts on rule changes (I had started a thread on this previously):

-I like going to a 30 second shot clock, but not less than that.
-Making zone defense illegal?  I hate that. College is a far more strategic game, which I really like. Some people just want a structure to promote the superstar, which requiring only man defense does my making it a matchup contest.
-Requiring 2 or 3 years. For the life of me, I don't understand legally how they can have 1 required year. I agree with some other previous comments that the baseball format is the way to go, but the NBA won't like it because it may require them to be more serious about a minor league system.
-Widening the court?  I like it, but I bet it would be very hard for some stadiums (it certainly would be for Allen). Additonally, for NCAA tournament play it would have to coincide with the NBA doing the same thing, since many facilites used also host NBA games.
-Widening the lane?  Sounds like an interesting idea, but I am not sure how keeping the offensive big men more away from the basket would help. Could there be a defensive version where you cannot camp your big man in front of the basket (oh wait, Valparaiso does that now and it is very effective since Vashil has improved so much on defense)
-Freshmen ineligible?  Bad idea that will never happen.
-Election on 6 fouls instead of 5?  Bad idea - it reduces the disincentive for fouls.

Some other ideas:
-Bring back the 3 to make 2 and 2 to make 1 free throws for shooting fouls when the fouling team has 10 or more fouls. The point here is not to add to the "excitement" of shooting free throws, but rather to disincent fouling.
-Reduce the time to get the ball over half court to 8 seconds.
-If a team calls timeout when the TV timeout threshold has passed (16 minutes, 12 minutes, etc.), have that be the TV timeout. I know that this would never happen due to the reduction of commercial time, but volume of timeouts hurts the flow.
-Reduce game timeouts from 5 to 4, still requiring 1 in the first half.
-Create the basketball equivalent of the blue line (in hockey). Instead of not allowing the offensive team to go backwards across the center court line, have a line in each offensive end that is maybe 8-10 feel in front of half court. This would incent faster breaks and getting your offense to a shot rather than just holding the ball out near half court for the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.

[agibson]

Ex. 2 jersey grabbing of Peters on every cut.

This one's definitely been catching my attention.  Is it normal not to call jersey grabs?  I mean, I guess boxing out is a sort of similar flavor of impeding the opposing player. 

I'm used,  I suppose, to soccer where really obvious jersey grabs to slow down a cutting player get called pretty often.

[a3uge]

Thoughts on rule changes (I had started a thread on this previously):

-I like going to a 30 second shot clock, but not less than that.
-Making zone defense illegal?  I hate that. College is a far more strategic game, which I really like. Some people just want a structure to promote the superstar, which requiring only man defense does my making it a matchup contest.
-Requiring 2 or 3 years. For the life of me, I don't understand legally how they can have 1 required year. I agree with some other previous comments that the baseball format is the way to go, but the NBA won't like it because it may require them to be more serious about a minor league system.
-Widening the court?  I like it, but I bet it would be very hard for some stadiums (it certainly would be for Allen). Additonally, for NCAA tournament play it would have to coincide with the NBA doing the same thing, since many facilites used also host NBA games.
-Widening the lane?  Sounds like an interesting idea, but I am not sure how keeping the offensive big men more away from the basket would help. Could there be a defensive version where you cannot camp your big man in front of the basket (oh wait, Valparaiso does that now and it is very effective since Vashil has improved so much on defense)
-Freshmen ineligible?  Bad idea that will never happen.
-Election on 6 fouls instead of 5?  Bad idea - it reduces the disincentive for fouls.

Some other ideas:
-Bring back the 3 to make 2 and 2 to make 1 free throws for shooting fouls when the fouling team has 10 or more fouls. The point here is not to add to the "excitement" of shooting free throws, but rather to disincent fouling.
-Reduce the time to get the ball over half court to 8 seconds.
-If a team calls timeout when the TV timeout threshold has passed (16 minutes, 12 minutes, etc.), have that be the TV timeout. I know that this would never happen due to the reduction of commercial time, but volume of timeouts hurts the flow.
-Reduce game timeouts from 5 to 4, still requiring 1 in the first half.
-Create the basketball equivalent of the blue line (in hockey). Instead of not allowing the offensive team to go backwards across the center court line, have a line in each offensive end that is maybe 8-10 feel in front of half court. This would incent faster breaks and getting your offense to a shot rather than just holding the ball out near half court for the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.

-Ban sleeved jerseys in college basketball as a proactive measure.

[VU75]

Disallow the huddle during player substitution following a fifth foul.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Ban sons of NBA fathers from playing.  It's unfair.

Mandate coaches keep their jackets on.  To maintain decorum.

and...

...oh wait

[usc4valpo]

I would like to see coaches wear sweats instead in suits - I mean what purpose is there to dress like someone in a GQ magazine?

I really like the 30 second shot clock - I think it is imperative.

[valpospartan]

When the ball is being taken out in your own offensive side, it can't be thrown to a man on the other side of the half court line.

[classof2014]

One rule change I'd like to see is at the end of a game when a team fouls to their advantage, give the coach of the fouled team the option to either take the shots or just inbound the ball again. I hate rewarding a team for doing something illegal. Then again make your FTs and you have the opportunity to close it out. But in no other sport is doing something illegal is rewarded.

Just my 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Not to hijack this thread totally but I was complaining somewhere else about the "auto bench" coaches do, and look what happened today:

With about seven minutes left in the first half, Michigan coach John Beilein was faced with a familiar first-half quandary: sit a player with two fouls or keep him in the game.

As has been Beilein's custom, he chose former — and Zak Irvin went to the bench, with UM leading, 19-18. The Wolverines were outscored, 12-2, in the remainder of the first half.

Their leading scorer.  Benched along with the starting point guard for two walk-ons BECAUSE THEY HAD TWO WHOPPING FOULS.

Irvin finished the game with...two fouls.

AAAAUUUUUGGGGH

[valporun]

The huddle after a player's fifth foul disqualification is due to the rule that coaches have 60 seconds to decide on a substitute for the disqualified player. You would have to change that the time for the substitution, as the teams will huddle anyway you look at it.

[wh]

One rule change I'd like to see is at the end of a game when a team fouls to their advantage, give the coach of the fouled team the option to either take the shots or just inbound the ball again. I hate rewarding a team for doing something illegal. Then again make your FTs and you have the opportunity to close it out. But in no other sport is doing something illegal is rewarded.

Just my 

I don't know about that.  The penalty for defensive pass interference in college football is to advance the ball to the spot of the foul, up to 15 yards maximum.  How many times do you see a defensive back who gets beat way down the field manhandle the intended receiver rather than give up the pass play, knowing the ball will only be advanced 15 yards.  IMO that should have been changed to the NFL rule a long time ago, but for some reason it hasn't.  But to your point, this is clearly an example from another sport where doing something illegal is rewarded. 

[classof2014]

One rule change I'd like to see is at the end of a game when a team fouls to their advantage, give the coach of the fouled team the option to either take the shots or just inbound the ball again. I hate rewarding a team for doing something illegal. Then again make your FTs and you have the opportunity to close it out. But in no other sport is doing something illegal is rewarded.

Just my 

I don't know about that.  The penalty for defensive pass interference in college football is to advance the ball to the spot of the foul, up to 15 yards maximum.  How many times do you see a defensive back who gets beat way down the field manhandle the intended receiver rather than give up the pass play, knowing the ball will only be advanced 15 yards.  IMO that should have been changed to the NFL rule a long time ago, but for some reason it hasn't.  But to your point, this is clearly an example from another sport where doing something illegal is rewarded. 

I wouldn't say a 15 yard penalty is a reward, it's still a first down it's just less of a negative. While fouling is basically rewarded, sometimes less than a second runs off the clock and you automatically get the ball back, unless the rare offensive rebound occurs. If it's a 4 point game with 3 seconds left when a team hits a three to make it a 1 point game, then fouls with 2.5 seconds left, even if the other team sinks both their FTs that gives the other team a chance to tie. The 15 yard penalty, isn't a reward while a foul in basketball is.

[VULB#62]

Agree with WH.  Anytime you're beaten on a 40 yard pass play and only have to take 15 yard penalty for interfering is a "reward" for the team committing the foul. Rather I would would say it is a calculated benefit.    To my way of thinking it is the same as giving up a FT in exchange for the ball with only few seconds run off the clock and the possibility of a missed FT that would be yet an additional benefit.

[StlVUFan]

One rule change I'd like to see is at the end of a game when a team fouls to their advantage, give the coach of the fouled team the option to either take the shots or just inbound the ball again. I hate rewarding a team for doing something illegal. Then again make your FTs and you have the opportunity to close it out. But in no other sport is doing something illegal is rewarded.

Just my 

Every sport has this to some degree.

Do you realize that in many (not all) ways in each sport, punishment is the responsibility of the opposing team, and they can easily fail in that regard?

This is something I've noticed a lot in every sport.  The job of the official is to give the victim team a chance to punish the offending team, but that's it (for the most part).  It's kind of an interesting quirk in sports.

Exceptions: goaltending (basketball), ... others?

[agibson]

This is something I've noticed a lot in every sport.  The job of the official is to give the victim team a chance to punish the offending team, but that's it (for the most part).  It's kind of an interesting quirk in sports.

Exceptions: goaltending (basketball), ... others?

You're looking for examples where points are directly awarded as a penalty?

You could see e.g. yardage penalties as a direct penalty.  But, obviously it's only _points_ that ultimately matter.

I suppose the idea is that points should only be awarded for skill.  You might make the job easier, but you're reluctant to automatically award them by referee fiat.

Obviously in some sports the advantage given by a penalty is more significant than others.  In soccer a red card ejection is pretty significant.  At the top level, a penalty kick is pretty significant (70% conversion? and a goal means a _lot_).  There's been discussion that an extreme infraction, like intentionally handling the ball to prevent a goal, should lead to an automatic goal.  But, I don't think it does.

Can you get a safety awarded in football as a result of a penalty?  Or is it like advancing the ball, where it seems to be at best "half the distance to the goal"?

[classof2014]

I guess something more minor regarding fouling in college basketball is when a player comes up with a steal and has a breakaway to the basket for a layup and the player fouls. This happened in the CSU game, KC had a clean break to the basket after a steal and was fouled. He was rewarded no free throws since we were yet to the 1 and 1, thus it was just an inbound play. To me that is an intentional foul and I wish it would be called intentional more often.

To me in those instances where it is obviously intentional, 2 free throws and the ball after. To me if you made a mistake like turning it over, he was rewarded for fouling, didn't give up an automatic 2.

Every sport at every level has rules that are questionable or should be looked at. I cannot think of a sport where fouling is used as a strategy other than basketball.

[Kyle321n]

Can you get a safety awarded in football as a result of a penalty?  Or is it like advancing the ball, where it seems to be at best "half the distance to the goal"?

Yes. If you commit a holding penalty while in your opponent's endzone it's a safety. Since holding calls are spot penalties you can't move the ball backwards from the endzone.

[valpo84]

Another coach's take on the current rules. He also said quite a bit about the hand checking and failure to call the rules they said would be called last year and which stopped. I also agree with him about the micromanaging of coaches over offensive flow.  If you trust your offensive sets and your players, let them play.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/sports/ncaabasketball/ionas-offense-goes-80-as-other-teams-hit-the-brakes.html?_r=0