2014-15 HL Tournament Thread

[a3uge]

No travel, two steps: here's a YouTube (can we embed this too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiChPLWPTwU

[wh]

Two people that may have been more physical than anyone on the court last night were Jubril and Derrik.  Jubril at 6-7, 235, 0 body fat uses great lower body leverage and his man is constantly trying to unlock his arms from Jubril's.  Derrik is just a street brawler, not someone I would want to mess with. 

I'm confused.  Are you talking about Derek Sloan who got one minute for CSU last night?  Or are you maybe talking about recruit Derrik Smits?

Hey, give me a break, guys!  This is only about the 10th time in the past 2 weeks I've used Derrik instead of Darien.  No one's perfect! 

[agibson]

If anything, the chairbacks were about as full as they ever have been.

Yeah, I'm really surprised to see it listed at 3,629.  On TV the upper decks didn't look jammed, but were filled much of the way up.  I figured probably some fans left after the first game, so figured it for easily 4,000+.  3,629 seems small even for those in attendance at the second game.  Unless they recalibrated whatever (normally a bit generous) system they usually use.

Maybe fewer no-show-but-counted people than usual, since the game wasn't covered by season ticket packages?

[agibson]

No travel, two steps: here's a YouTube (can we embed this too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiChPLWPTwU

Ah, nice.  The slow mo there is good.  Do we start counting after the ball bounces the last time?  Seems like his right foot might still be coming down.  So, if we count that (and the right hit foot seems to hit _just_ after the ball bounces), maybe it is three steps.  But, doesn't seem at all criminal.  Two great bigs steps, and then a funny sort of a low leap to the basket.

[valpopal]

If anything, the chairbacks were about as full as they ever have been.

Yeah, I'm really surprised to see it listed at 3,629.  On TV the upper decks didn't look jammed, but were filled much of the way up.  I figured probably some fans left after the first game, so figured it for easily 4,000+.  3,629 seems small even for those in attendance at the second game.  Unless they recalibrated whatever (normally a bit generous) system they usually use.

Maybe fewer no-show-but-counted people than usual, since the game wasn't covered by season ticket packages?

Yes, the chairbacks were full during the Valpo game. I checked my photos, such as the one below, and they all show a packed section. During the Green Bay game there were some gaps because many from the chairback section were at the Crusader Club pep rally.






...and here is one of my photos showing the bleachers side of the court:

[WiscoCrusader]

LOL!  The guy in the White Valpo hat and Black Valpo shirt right behind the Cleveland State bench is me.  The dude in the Yellow Valpo shirt is my son. 

We drove all the way from Wisconsin - about 4 hours - and headed all the way back after the game.  It was totally worth it.

That's awesome - great pic and thanks for posting.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

you just take the "s" out of https to embed:

Alec Peters Clutch Layup for Valparaiso

let's enjoy this, friends--Tevonn's and and Lexus' injuries are reminders that between "oh man next year we're going to be AMAZING" and "oh welp wait 'til NEXT next year" there's really only one knee ligament.

[valpopal]

I was right next to the official under the basket when I took this photo of Alec's lay up, and from our angle, it didn't look like he walked.

[wh]

If anything, the chairbacks were about as full as they ever have been.

Yeah, I'm really surprised to see it listed at 3,629.  On TV the upper decks didn't look jammed, but were filled much of the way up.  I figured probably some fans left after the first game, so figured it for easily 4,000+.  3,629 seems small even for those in attendance at the second game.  Unless they recalibrated whatever (normally a bit generous) system they usually use.

Maybe fewer no-show-but-counted people than usual, since the game wasn't covered by season ticket packages?

I can tell you by the look, feel and sound that 3600 was not close.  That would mean about 1600 empty seats, or over half of the upper level open.  No way. 

Here's a theory.  The HL wants to move the tournament to a neutral site.  Opposition forces will argue that it will be an attendance failure.  HL office will counter, how much do we have to lose?  There were only 3600 at the semi-finals this year and 3602 at the championship game.  Next thing you know, faster than it takes to say "does someone have an agenda here" a press release will be issued that next year's tournament will be held in Indianapolis (which coincidently is the same location as our esteemed HL office).

   

[ValpoHoops]

3600 was pretty close to actual butts in seats during the second game. There were a lot of seats in the upper corners that were open, and a high number of Green Bay fans left.

Keep in mind, that while "capacity" at the ARC is over 5000, there are only about 4500 actual ticketed seats (not including student sections). I used to know the exact number, but I can't recall what it is...

[wh]

3600 was pretty close to actual butts in seats during the second game. There were a lot of seats in the upper corners that were open, and a high number of Green Bay fans left.

Keep in mind, that while "capacity" at the ARC is over 5000, there are only about 4500 actual ticketed seats (not including student sections). I used to know the exact number, but I can't recall what it is...

What difference would that make whether they were there or not?  Everyone who bought a ticket paid for both games.  Or, are you saying that the 3600 number is a guesstimate based on how full the place looked rather than an actual ticket count?

[talksalot]

I saw the banner --- who is the "V" man?

Dave Hildebrand... Mr Valpo Superfan for YEARS was the guy holding the V sign and waving during the fight song.   A few games ago, his widow, Pat, arranged to have the student section receive "V" man t-shirts...

[ValpoHoops]

3600 was pretty close to actual butts in seats during the second game. There were a lot of seats in the upper corners that were open, and a high number of Green Bay fans left.

Keep in mind, that while "capacity" at the ARC is over 5000, there are only about 4500 actual ticketed seats (not including student sections). I used to know the exact number, but I can't recall what it is...

What difference would that make whether they were there or not?  Everyone who bought a ticket paid for both games.  Or, are you saying that the 3600 number is a guesstimate based on how full the place looked rather than an actual ticket count?

I think 3600 was about how many butts were in the seats. That's what the place looked like to me. I don't know how they arrived at their count for the games...whether they took actual tickets or did what they do during the regular season and guess. I suppose it doesn't really matter to me how many tickets were sold, I was disappointed that there were so many empty seats.

[classof2014]

1st Team

Trey Lewis
1-9, 0-5, 3-5 -- 5 points
5-17, 3-10, 0-0 -- 13 points
4-14, 2-9, 0-0 -- 10 points

Anton Grady
8-12, 3-6 -- 18 points, 6 RBs
1-6, 3-4, -- 5 points 13 RBs
7-14, 6-7 -- 20 points, 11 RBs, 6 assists

Keifer Sykes
4-17, 1-3, 2-2 -- 11 points, 6 assists
2-13, 1-2, 2-5 -- 7 points, 2 assists

Khalil Felder
6-14, 1-5, 19-24 -- 32 points, 6 RBs, 5 assists
8-18, 1-6, 3-4 -- 20 points, 7 assists

2nd Team

Greg Mays
4-4, 1-2 -- 9 points
3-9, 0-2, 4-5 -- 10 points

Corey Petros
3-11, 2-5 -- 8 points, 12 RBs
7-13, 2-4 -- 16 points, 11 RBs

Juwan Howard
6-11, 4-5, 3-4 -- 19 points
2-10, 1-3, 3-3 -- 8 points

Matt Tiby
5-11, 0-5, 5-5 -- 15 points, 5 RBs
3-11, 1-2, 7-8, 14 points, 8 RBs

Steve McWhorter
5-8, 0-1, 2-4, 12 points, 5 assists
6-10, 2-3, 0-0, 14 points, 4 assists

These are the stat lines of all the first and second teamers, this show how strong our defense is. The best night goes to Felder, with 32 points but 19 of those came from the FT line. Only 3 times did a player on the first or second team score 20 or more points. Some of the best players in the league have off nights or aren't as effective against us. I think this shows how strong defensively we are. These are some of the best scorers in the league and only 3 times did somebody amount to 20 or more points. Only 1 player had more than 20 points.

[SanityLost17]

3600 was pretty close to actual butts in seats during the second game. There were a lot of seats in the upper corners that were open, and a high number of Green Bay fans left.

Keep in mind, that while "capacity" at the ARC is over 5000, there are only about 4500 actual ticketed seats (not including student sections). I used to know the exact number, but I can't recall what it is...

What difference would that make whether they were there or not?  Everyone who bought a ticket paid for both games.  Or, are you saying that the 3600 number is a guesstimate based on how full the place looked rather than an actual ticket count?

I think 3600 was about how many butts were in the seats. That's what the place looked like to me. I don't know how they arrived at their count for the games...whether they took actual tickets or did what they do during the regular season and guess. I suppose it doesn't really matter to me how many tickets were sold, I was disappointed that there were so many empty seats.

I think everyone is forgetting that Saturday was Sectional Finals for high school basketball.  High school basketball may not be what it once was, but you still have a lot of people that go to the finals, regardless if their team made it or not.  Now, if it is not a sell out on Tuesday, I think you have a right to be disappointed.   

[agibson]

Now, if it is not a sell out on Tuesday, I think you have a right to be disappointed.   

2013 attendance for the final seems to have been listed at 4,457.  (After a measly 3,285 listed for the semifinal...)

I'm not counting on a sell out for a Tuesday game, during spring break, premium priced, on relatively short notice. 

In a more perfect world, it'd be a sellout.  But, in this world, I'm probably going to gamble on it _not_ being a sellout.  (I'm only going to be able to make the tail end of the 2nd half, and I'm probably going to skip advanced tickets, unless sales pickup today.)

I'll be delighted if I'm wrong!  If they actually turn me away Tuesday night, I'll be disappointed.  But, still mostly delighted!

[wh]

Now, if it is not a sell out on Tuesday, I think you have a right to be disappointed.   

2013 attendance for the final seems to have been listed at 4,457.  (After a measly 3,285 listed for the semifinal...)

I'm not counting on a sell out for a Tuesday game, during spring break, premium priced, on relatively short notice. 

In a more perfect world, it'd be a sellout.  But, in this world, I'm probably going to gamble on it _not_ being a sellout.  (I'm only going to be able to make the tail end of the 2nd half, and I'm probably going to skip advanced tickets, unless sales pickup today.)

I'll be delighted if I'm wrong!  If they actually turn me away Tuesday night, I'll be disappointed.  But, still mostly delighted!

There are approximately 1500 seats still available in the upper level.  That includes all the seats in the first 3 rows that they show as not available so people won't purchase them not knowing that the view is partially obstructed by the railing.  At $20 a pop I would be surprised if more than half sell.  Even if that's true, that's only 750 short of capacity, or a crowd of approximately 4250 if not another ticket is sold.  It will be interesting to continue to see how much advance ticket sales rise, and then compare the crowd we anticipate to what is announced.  I am willing to bet the announced crowd will be 500 fewer than what we anticipate based on the ticket sales seating chart.

[valpopal]

I have uploaded a gallery at the following link with more than 30 photos from the semi-final win over Cleveland State. Enjoy the images, which include a number of crowd shots as well! https://www.flickr.com/photos/96208998@N05/sets/72157651184346506/

[agibson]

There are approximately 1500 seats still available in the upper level.  That includes all the seats in the first 3 rows that they show as not available so people won't purchase them not knowing that the view is partially obstructed by the railing.  At $20 a pop I would be surprised if more than half sell.  Even if that's true, that's only 750 short of capacity, or a crowd of approximately 4250 if not another ticket is sold.  It will be interesting to continue to see how much advance ticket sales rise, and then compare the crowd we anticipate to what is announced.  I am willing to bet the announced crowd will be 500 fewer than what we anticipate based on the ticket sales seating chart.

I've always sort of run the numbers like this, or comparing the feeling of the crowd on a given night vs. quoted attendance for previous games. I've never tried running the numbers the way ValpoHoops suggests, actually counting the number of seats that _are_ sold or filled.

I guess some number (maybe not as many as years past) are removed for the tournament.

Was it 2012 where they had a bunch of media at tables in Section E, running well up into the bleachers?

[StlVUFan]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-john-mutka-column-st-0309-20150308-story.html

Fortunately, the flow didn't include bloodshed, but left me wondering who was playing middle linebacker for the overly aggressive Vikings.

[justducky]

Ok just spotted something that can and needs to be resolved in the future. I would link (if I knew how) the Calendar sports -- TODAY'S TV/RADIO HIGHLIGHTS for today's Post Trib on page 4. Anyway there are a number of games, events listed with their radio or TV coverages and including the IHSAA girls state finals, Flyers at Bruins, Sprint Cup practice, and EPL: Tottenham vs. Queens Park. What is not listed in the College Basketball section is any mention of the game of highest interest for northwest Indiana basketball fans which will be live on ESPNU from the ARC.

I take the lack of mention in the on air radio-tv coverage as a slap in the face. Hey they didn't forget to list DePaul at Marquette because hey they might be the 140th and 160th best teams in the country facing off with everything at stake and  a handful of local fans interested! Something from the back of my mind tells me that they made this same ommission at least one of the other times we hosted. So however they addressed the problem then it apparently had no lasting effect.

Hey I don't want to get uppity because I realize those are real BB programs from a real conference not some phony-balony wanna be conference like the Horizon.

Separate question. Are there really more NW indiana BB fans interested in the Clemson at ND 3PM tipoff on WCIU-DT 26.2, WLS-AM 890 than for VU vs CSU? I would argue that there isn't and if by some slight margin there is then I think I may have already proposed the solution!

Since nobody addressed my original concerns, let me pose the same question. Will the Tuesday editions of the Times and Post Trib include in their Calendar TODAY'S TV/RADIO HIGHLIGHTS  College Basketball Tournaments -game listings sections that the Horizon Mens BB Title will be on ESPN at 6:00? Yes I know that should not be our responsibility but since we are aware of this mistake it now becomes our job to make sure that it is fixed.

[Valpo89]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, it will be listed in the Sports on TV listings in The Times on page 2 of the sports section. I'm sure the TV/radio will also be listed in the pre-game capsule that will be contributed by Paul Oren. I'd also say that 9 of 10 times that VU has been on TV this season, it has been listed in the Times sports section in at least one format. I can only say with regard to ESPNU, maybe some papers don't list all the sports on all the "fringe" channels because not everyone gets them. Just a theory. Odds are they are going to list the sports that are on CBS because everybody has CBS, but due to space constraints they're not going to list the 10 p.m. west coast game on Fox Sports. Still, I get what you're saying - if VU is involved it should be in the paper.

[vu84v2]

I looked at the video on Peters' move. Honestly, it looks like three steps to me.

I agree with other comments that the tournament format, as it is, is fine. Don't break it! It rewards regular season performance.

[sliman]

The attendance figure is probably more accurate for the HL tournament than for any of our home games.  There is a ticket for virtually everyone in the ARC (media, HL officials, school officials, etc. excluded) so there is an accurate count, an I suspect it's an "audited" count to make sure dollars match tickets sold.  For home games, faculty-staff and students don't have tickets so the count is less accurate and probably estimated and probably counting every season ticket holder in attendance whether the seat is occupied or not.  Also at many home games, the upper level may look fuller than it is because many people put coats on seats next to them and everyone simply adjusts by a row or seat to accommodate it.  If you look at Valpopal's photos from some home games with similar estimates in attendance (GB?) I think you'll see many more empty seats than there were Saturday night.

[wh]

There are approximately 1500 seats still available in the upper level.  That includes all the seats in the first 3 rows that they show as not available so people won't purchase them not knowing that the view is partially obstructed by the railing.  At $20 a pop I would be surprised if more than half sell.  Even if that's true, that's only 750 short of capacity, or a crowd of approximately 4250 if not another ticket is sold.  It will be interesting to continue to see how much advance ticket sales rise, and then compare the crowd we anticipate to what is announced.  I am willing to bet the announced crowd will be 500 fewer than what we anticipate based on the ticket sales seating chart.

I've always sort of run the numbers like this, or comparing the feeling of the crowd on a given night vs. quoted attendance for previous games. I've never tried running the numbers the way ValpoHoops suggests, actually counting the number of seats that _are_ sold or filled.

I guess some number (maybe not as many as years past) are removed for the tournament.

Was it 2012 where they had a bunch of media at tables in Section E, running well up into the bleachers?

All I can do is repeat some simple math - all the seats in the lower level are sold. 1500 seats are still available in the upper level. The reported capacity is 5000. That means that if not even 1 more advance ticket is sold and not so much as 1 person buys a ticket at the door, the reported attendance should be 3500. If half of the 1500 unsold seat are purchased between now and game time the attendance should be 4250. Knowing that renders guesstimates meaningless. It also renders meaningless who didn't show, who left early, how many people are out of their seats at the restroom or up getting concessions, or how many people chose to stand around the track instead of sitting in their assigned seat. Every ticket has a unique seat assignment, thus 2 tickets are alike. Every ticket is scanned. The only guesswork that might be involved is counting people who don't have to buy a ticket like band members, workers, staff, etc. even there presumably those people are given passes to get in. This is not (or should I say should not be) that difficult to figure out in the modern age we live in.