Oren's article = HL expansion and new tournament format

[oklahomamick]

[url]http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/horizon-league-likely-to-expand-in-near-future/article_cbe63b1a-eec6-532f-bc28-f9c3fa0d60e6.htm]http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/horizon-league-likely-to-expand-in-near-future/article_cbe63b1a-eec6-532f-bc28-f9c3fa0d60e6.htm[/url]

I didn't know the HL proposed a double elemination format but was rejected by the NCAA.  Also mentions a neutral site for the future. 

[HC]

Double elim:bad idea
Neutral site:horrible idea

[valpopal]

I was at the commissioner's conference, and one of the subjects he also discussed involved a challenge with another league, which LeCrone seemed to indicate as desirable and perhaps connected to adding a team to the Horizon League. Announcement about adding another team possibly could be given as early as this spring or summer with the actual date of entry as "variable." He said that the Horizon League had identified one conference partner that seemed receptive to the idea of a challenge series, and he "might have some news on that" in the future. Needless to say, everything he mentioned was shaped by qualifying language such as "could" or "possibly," and Belmont was the only other team actually mentioned by LeCrone during the conference, but that was in relation to the existing arrangement in which Belmont participates in soccer and on the basketball schedule. As it stands, Belmont's current cooperation with the Horizon League has three years to go, and LeCrone has been pleased by their presence.

[classof2014]

I think the HL has one of the better conference tournament formats out there. If the HL manages to get back to 10 team, top two get double-bye everybody else plays two extra games. A neutral court is an awful idea. Would it be in Indy? Where the league headquarters are. Which there isn't a team in the conference in Indy and the only two schools that are close to Indy are Valpo and Wright State. So many conference championship games look empty when played on a neutral court. The last thing the league wants is to have... CSU play GB in Indy, or something like that where both teams have a ways to travel and very few fans will be able to attend. Keep the format as it is.

As the old adage goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'

[usc4valpo]

I like the format as is.  If I were the Horizon conference, I would snatch Belmont ASAP. A good school with a great music tradition and a basketball program with success.

[agibson]

As the old adage goes, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'

LeCrone's comments about this format maybe being toward the end of its lifetime are interesting.  I remember our complaints, or at least misgivings, about the format when we joined the league.  And others counciled that we'd enjoy it when we were hosting, when/if we were on top.

The well-known UWM fan (Lemke?) aside, are the other schools getting tired of coming to Valparaiso?

[historyman]

I fixed oklahomamick's Times story to make it easier to click on. (it's actually pgmado's story)

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/horizon-league-likely-to-expand-in-near-future/article_cbe63b1a-eec6-532f-bc28-f9c3fa0d60e6.htm

Horizon League Likely to Expand in Near Future

[valpotx]

It would be a horrendous idea to go to the neutral site format.  You get much less attendance for a mid-major league under this format, and you don't protect your #1 seed, who played 16 games to earn the right to have the best chance to represent the conference in the NCAA tourney.  Even when we have lost in the past on someone else's court for the conference tourney, I always felt good about hopefully having our best representative in the NCAAs, until we can become a multiple bid league.  Adding Belmont would help us achieve this goal...

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Agreed that neutral site is not going to be a successful idea, but it may happen anyway as people get tired of having it in Valpo 8 times out of 10.  Here's another reason it's a bad idea: exactly what is the point of playing all those tournament games, then, if all you get is basically the same thing as the second seed gets?

[Pathfinder]

My preference would be to play it at the regular season champs' place, but with 8 teams playing games on 3 consecutive days. You could cut the field to 8 with first round games on Tuesday, then play Friday, Saturday, Sunday at the home of the regular season champion. It's very tough for visiting fans to attend a game Saturday, then have two days off and have to return for a Tuesday final. Of course, if the regular season champ loses on Friday or Saturday, attendance for the final goes to hell. Nothing's perfect, eh?

A variation would be to do that, but with games Friday and Saturday (no double bye), and then a final on Tuesday at the highest remaining seed. That brings back the double travel issue for fans of the lower seed in the final, but presumably assures a better turnout for the final.

While eliminating the double bye in that format would work a bit against top teams, the top teams still get an advantage. It would mean the #1 and #2 teams play games against teams seeded 7th or lower in the first round, and then it looks the same as now, with a semi-final and final. While I don't mind favoring the top teams in the regular season, the double bye is a big edge, and not always all that fair, either. Suppose, for example, Oakland had won one more game during the season, say beating Detroit in their first matchup. They would have finished tied for second with GB at 12-4. It's not clear to me why Oakland should then get the benefit of a double bye simply because they beat Cleveland State twice and Green Bay only beat Cleveland State once.

In the end, there is no perfect format unless you're a high major and can sell 12,000 seats every session at a neutral site. And then who needs a "perfect" format?

[crusaderjoe]

I personally don't think the HL should mess with the number of teams that make the conference tournament.  Everyone in the conference should be eligible for the post season tournament regardless of wins and losses.  We don't need to go back to the old Mid-Con days where the last placed team packed up its stuff without an opportunity to play in the post season by not being eligible for the conference tournament.  Most of the time that was Valpo back then.  Let every student athlete get at least an opportunity to make the NCAAs.

[elephtheria47]

Belmont would be a great addition. Are they possible though? Ovc had a great year at least at the top. While something like arch madness would be nice, I don't think attendance would be that great unless they are having AD poll their fan bases or season ticket holders to see If they would travel. I think if it's one or the other, most fans would wait and travel to NCAA.

[Pgmado]

Nothing concrete, but don't get excited about Belmont. I don't believe it's happening.

[agibson]

Nothing concrete, but don't get excited about Belmont. I don't believe it's happening.

So, you figure soccer was a one-off?  Or a false start, perhaps?

[wh]

Agreed that neutral site is not going to be a successful idea, but it may happen anyway as people get tired of having it in Valpo 8 times out of 10.  Here's another reason it's a bad idea: exactly what is the point of playing all those tournament games, then, if all you get is basically the same thing as the second seed gets?

Realistically, we could host the next 2 years, which would make 5 of the last 6 tournaments.  To be able to bring in recruits and have them watch the crazy environment at the ARC at tournament time is huge.  You just don't see that at the mid major level.  Have them gaze at all the banners, NCAA appearances, notoriety, "the shot," a head coach that played in the NBA for 6 years, etc.  Think about what Alec said about being in attendance the day that Ryan hit "the shot-2'' to beat GB 2 years ago and picturing himself doing something like it some day.

If I were a fan of another HL team, I would not be pleased, just as I wasn't pleased when Butler was dominating.  Looking back, it was ridiculously simple to see how the rich would get richer with this system to the detriment of the other league members.  Then, to learn that the double bye was orchestrated by a self-serving Butler AD and egged-on by self promoter Bruce Pearl only confirmed my feelings.  Many fans around the league naively believed that "rising tide" Butler would float all HL boats ("the Butler effect"), but that was never anything more than a pipe dream. They just became known as the program that had outgrown its competition and were being held back from being everything it could be.  Butler itself did nothing to discourage that perception either.  Never once that I'm aware of did good old "Brad" or Collier credit the other HL programs for preparing them for doing well in the tournament.  Everything was self-promoting - the "Butler Way" nonsense and the whole 9. Every time I think of it, it only confirms my hatred for that program and it's arrogant, condescending, knuckle-headed fan base.   

I know I've gotten some good natured teasing here lately about flip flopping about my well known disdain for the double bye system.  Well, here's my answer.  Of course, I'm happy that we have benefitted from "the system."  But, in my heart of hearts I know that this "system" is not in the best interest of the league as a whole. 

[a3uge]

"All good ideas over time have a beginning, a middle and an end," he said. "I think (with our tournament) we're past the middle with this idea. We may be near the end with this format. I think we ought to rethink our format. I think we're ready for that."

So we finally get 1 vs 2 again and now it's time to rethink the format? We're guaranteed to send either of our best two teams (a 12-13 seed) into the tourney, and NOW we want to toy with a neutral-site tournament? Ask the OVC how their neutral site worked out this year. Murray State doesn't lose a league game and had to play Belmont in Nashville. So instead of sending a ranked 12 seed, they're sending a 15 seed. Coastal Carolina hosted the Big South tournament despite finishing 3rd... shocking they won the tournament.

I've been a defender of the format, and if anything, I think it needs to give a bigger advantage to the top 2 seeds. Having a team picked last make a run is cute and all, but when they're playing as a 15 seed in the tournament, it's not so nice for the league. The main problem I see is that the #2 seed isn't protected at all. The two games in two days doesn't really seem to slow teams down on a neutral court. I think it would be better to just have that game played at the higher seed's site, or have the tournament run friday, saturday, sunday and force non-1 seeds to win 3 games in 3 days if they want to dance. I'm not sure how ratings would be for a Sunday night championship vs Tuesday night, but I'm sure ESPN has space for it. I'm not sure why they'd switch to a neutral site. Money? Would a city dish out money for the right to host the Horizon League tournament? Convenience?

As for expansion: I'd like to see Murray State or Belmont. Both of those teams consistently finish above .500 out of conference, which is something that's apparently very difficult for Horizon League teams to do. We shouldn't expand for the sake of expanding, just like we shouldn't switch conference tournament formats for the sake of switching formats. Adding a team like NKU, IPFW, Lipscomb, or IUPUI would be very short-sided.

[justducky]

Many fans around the league naively believed that "rising tide" Butler would float all HL boats ("the Butler effect"), but that was never anything more than a pipe dream. They just became known as the program that had outgrown its competition and were being held back from being everything it could be.  Butler itself did nothing to discourage that perception either.  Never once that I'm aware of did good old "Brad" or Collier credit the other HL programs for preparing them for doing well in the tournament.  Everything was self-promoting - the "Butler Way" nonsense and the whole 9. Every time I think of it, it only confirms my hatred for that program and it's arrogant, condescending, knuckle-headed fan base.   

I know I've gotten some good natured teasing here lately about flip flopping about my well known disdain for the double bye system.  Well, here's my answer.  Of course, I'm happy that we have benefitted from "the system."  But, in my heart of hearts I know that this "system" is not in the best interest of the league as a whole.

He's back! He's Back!          wh has rejoined the flock! Our point man top-gun has once again taken to the air! As for StLVUFan I don't remember you being fully with us a few years ago but welcome aboard because we need all the wing men we can find.    Who else is lurking out there? A few more volunteers and we can buzz around the board in the ceremonial missing man formation in honor of RLH.

It is my fervent hope that we never fall into the Butler arrogance mentality. I would much prefer life as a perennial top mid-major program than the next Butler wanna be emulator.

[Valpo89]

I used to enjoy the old neutral-site Mid-Continent Conference Tournament. I thought it was cool to have all the schools there in one building, going to four games on the first day.
But the attendance at those tournaments was basically awful. Sure, it was in the days when VU dominated and a good share of Crusader fans showed up. But it was only the die-hards.
And it was hard to win the tournament, really, having to play three games in three days. That's not good for anyone.

Now, in the Horizon, I love the fact that winning the regular-season means something besides playing the No. 8 seed in the first round. Proving yourself throughout the entire conference season is a bigger deal to me than a team getting hot in the first couple weeks of March. I think the league should WANT its top team to advance to the NCAA Tournament with the best possible seed, and it should give that team every conceivable advantage to do so. A double-bye with a homecourt advantage is the best way to do that, and I hope the Horizon continues this format.

[a3uge]

Agreed that neutral site is not going to be a successful idea, but it may happen anyway as people get tired of having it in Valpo 8 times out of 10.  Here's another reason it's a bad idea: exactly what is the point of playing all those tournament games, then, if all you get is basically the same thing as the second seed gets?

Realistically, we could host the next 2 years, which would make 5 of the last 6 tournaments.  To be able to bring in recruits and have them watch the crazy environment at the ARC at tournament time is huge.  You just don't see that at the mid major level.  Have them gaze at all the banners, NCAA appearances, notoriety, "the shot," a head coach that played in the NBA for 6 years, etc.  Think about what Alec said about being in attendance the day that Ryan hit "the shot-2'' to beat GB 2 years ago and picturing himself doing something like it some day.

If I were a fan of another HL team, I would not be pleased, just as I wasn't pleased when Butler was dominating.  Looking back, it was ridiculously simple to see how the rich would get richer with this system to the detriment of the other league members.  Then, to learn that the double bye was orchestrated by a self-serving Butler AD and egged-on by self promoter Bruce Pearl only confirmed my feelings.  Many fans around the league naively believed that "rising tide" Butler would float all HL boats ("the Butler effect"), but that was never anything more than a pipe dream. They just became known as the program that had outgrown its competition and were being held back from being everything it could be.  Butler itself did nothing to discourage that perception either.  Never once that I'm aware of did good old "Brad" or Collier credit the other HL programs for preparing them for doing well in the tournament.  Everything was self-promoting - the "Butler Way" nonsense and the whole 9. Every time I think of it, it only confirms my hatred for that program and it's arrogant, condescending, knuckle-headed fan base.   

I know I've gotten some good natured teasing here lately about flip flopping about my well known disdain for the double bye system.  Well, here's my answer.  Of course, I'm happy that we have benefitted from "the system."  But, in my heart of hearts I know that this "system" is not in the best interest of the league as a whole. 

wh, I thought you were anti-socialism???

I have no way of proving this, but considering the Horizon is now 16th in RPI and only had 2 teams finished above .500 outside of league play, I think there's been a drop in recruiting. The perception of the league is important and recruits want to play in the most competitive conference possible. It had to have been a good sell for recruits that they'd be playing against Sweet 16, Final Four teams. Would Cleveland State have gotten Grady in 2011 without referencing the league's postseason success? Alec Brown? Forbes? Jay Harris (laugh, he was a ESPN top 100 recruit)? The league's recruiting in the past couple of years seems to be weaker than what it was in the past going off of the ESPN recruiting ranks.  The recruiting seems to be reflected in the competitiveness of the league outside of the conference. It's not like Butler was steamrolling everyone with this format. Butler may have been getting richer, but when Butler left, they hadn't hosted the tournament in 2 seasons. They didn't win the regular season in 2011 (neutral site for Butler vs UWM would have made it LESS competitive against Butler), and in 2009 the league actually sent two teams to the tournament because Butler lost (and Cleveland State went on to win a game in the tourney). Wright State actually won the tournament in 2007 and we sent 2 teams again. Before that was UWM's run. Imagine our run in 2013 being played at on a neutral court, which may have been the difference between a postseason berth and a loss. That would've been the most depressing NIT game ever. Or this year, maybe Cleveland State beats us on a neutral court and rolls into Indianapolis to beat Green Bay. How would watching another HL 15 seed be in the best interest of the conference? At this point Valpo isn't an at-large, and I doubt next year they'll be at-large-caliber either. It's way too premature to be labeling Valpo as a team getting rich while the others are getting poorer. We're sitting at 1 total appearance and 0 tournament victories.

I think you can see a similar thing going on in the MVC with Wichita State. Is Wichita State not doing anything for the MVC? I think that'd be a silly conclusion. They have two legitimate at-large programs and the legitimacy of the conference is at its highest point despite losing Creighton.

[wh]

Agreed that neutral site is not going to be a successful idea, but it may happen anyway as people get tired of having it in Valpo 8 times out of 10.  Here's another reason it's a bad idea: exactly what is the point of playing all those tournament games, then, if all you get is basically the same thing as the second seed gets?

Realistically, we could host the next 2 years, which would make 5 of the last 6 tournaments.  To be able to bring in recruits and have them watch the crazy environment at the ARC at tournament time is huge.  You just don't see that at the mid major level.  Have them gaze at all the banners, NCAA appearances, notoriety, "the shot," a head coach that played in the NBA for 6 years, etc.  Think about what Alec said about being in attendance the day that Ryan hit "the shot-2'' to beat GB 2 years ago and picturing himself doing something like it some day.

If I were a fan of another HL team, I would not be pleased, just as I wasn't pleased when Butler was dominating.  Looking back, it was ridiculously simple to see how the rich would get richer with this system to the detriment of the other league members.  Then, to learn that the double bye was orchestrated by a self-serving Butler AD and egged-on by self promoter Bruce Pearl only confirmed my feelings.  Many fans around the league naively believed that "rising tide" Butler would float all HL boats ("the Butler effect"), but that was never anything more than a pipe dream. They just became known as the program that had outgrown its competition and were being held back from being everything it could be.  Butler itself did nothing to discourage that perception either.  Never once that I'm aware of did good old "Brad" or Collier credit the other HL programs for preparing them for doing well in the tournament.  Everything was self-promoting - the "Butler Way" nonsense and the whole 9. Every time I think of it, it only confirms my hatred for that program and it's arrogant, condescending, knuckle-headed fan base.   

I know I've gotten some good natured teasing here lately about flip flopping about my well known disdain for the double bye system.  Well, here's my answer.  Of course, I'm happy that we have benefitted from "the system."  But, in my heart of hearts I know that this "system" is not in the best interest of the league as a whole. 

wh, I thought you were anti-socialism???

I have no way of proving this, but considering the Horizon is now 16th in RPI and only had 2 teams finished above .500 outside of league play, I think there's been a drop in recruiting. The perception of the league is important and recruits want to play in the most competitive conference possible. It had to have been a good sell for recruits that they'd be playing against Sweet 16, Final Four teams. Would Cleveland State have gotten Grady in 2011 without referencing the league's postseason success? Alec Brown? Forbes? Jay Harris (laugh, he was a ESPN top 100 recruit)? The league's recruiting in the past couple of years seems to be weaker than what it was in the past going off of the ESPN recruiting ranks.  The recruiting seems to be reflected in the competitiveness of the league outside of the conference. It's not like Butler was steamrolling everyone with this format. Butler may have been getting richer, but when Butler left, they hadn't hosted the tournament in 2 seasons. They didn't win the regular season in 2011 (neutral site for Butler vs UWM would have made it LESS competitive against Butler), and in 2009 the league actually sent two teams to the tournament because Butler lost (and Cleveland State went on to win a game in the tourney). Wright State actually won the tournament in 2007 and we sent 2 teams again. Before that was UWM's run. Imagine our run in 2013 being played at on a neutral court, which may have been the difference between a postseason berth and a loss. That would've been the most depressing NIT game ever. Or this year, maybe Cleveland State beats us on a neutral court and rolls into Indianapolis to beat Green Bay. How would watching another HL 15 seed be in the best interest of the conference? At this point Valpo isn't an at-large, and I doubt next year they'll be at-large-caliber either. It's way too premature to be labeling Valpo as a team getting rich while the others are getting poorer. We're sitting at 1 total appearance and 0 tournament victories.

I think you can see a similar thing going on in the MVC with Wichita State. Is Wichita State not doing anything for the MVC? I think that'd be a silly conclusion. They have two legitimate at-large programs and the legitimacy of the conference is at its highest point despite losing Creighton.

You make some interesting points, but I can just as easily argue that the decline in recruiting is due to coaching changes and has nothing to with Butler.  I like Rob Jeter, but let's face it, he's no Bruce Pearl.  I like Billy Donlon, but he has proven to be no Brad Brownell.  Pearl and Brownell are excellent coaches and recruiters everywhere they've been.  They didn't need scraps off Butler's table to kick start their success. Bryce is out of the same mold.  He's an excellent coach and recruiter, with or without the presence Butler.  Like Brownell and Pearl, he's already had offers from bigger programs and will continue to do so. Even Jimmy Collins had some big time players and powerhouse teams before Butler was anything to talk about.  I think most people would agree that at this point Howard Moore has been a poor replacement. 

[a3uge]

Agreed that neutral site is not going to be a successful idea, but it may happen anyway as people get tired of having it in Valpo 8 times out of 10.  Here's another reason it's a bad idea: exactly what is the point of playing all those tournament games, then, if all you get is basically the same thing as the second seed gets?

Realistically, we could host the next 2 years, which would make 5 of the last 6 tournaments.  To be able to bring in recruits and have them watch the crazy environment at the ARC at tournament time is huge.  You just don't see that at the mid major level.  Have them gaze at all the banners, NCAA appearances, notoriety, "the shot," a head coach that played in the NBA for 6 years, etc.  Think about what Alec said about being in attendance the day that Ryan hit "the shot-2'' to beat GB 2 years ago and picturing himself doing something like it some day.

If I were a fan of another HL team, I would not be pleased, just as I wasn't pleased when Butler was dominating.  Looking back, it was ridiculously simple to see how the rich would get richer with this system to the detriment of the other league members.  Then, to learn that the double bye was orchestrated by a self-serving Butler AD and egged-on by self promoter Bruce Pearl only confirmed my feelings.  Many fans around the league naively believed that "rising tide" Butler would float all HL boats ("the Butler effect"), but that was never anything more than a pipe dream. They just became known as the program that had outgrown its competition and were being held back from being everything it could be.  Butler itself did nothing to discourage that perception either.  Never once that I'm aware of did good old "Brad" or Collier credit the other HL programs for preparing them for doing well in the tournament.  Everything was self-promoting - the "Butler Way" nonsense and the whole 9. Every time I think of it, it only confirms my hatred for that program and it's arrogant, condescending, knuckle-headed fan base.   

I know I've gotten some good natured teasing here lately about flip flopping about my well known disdain for the double bye system.  Well, here's my answer.  Of course, I'm happy that we have benefitted from "the system."  But, in my heart of hearts I know that this "system" is not in the best interest of the league as a whole. 

wh, I thought you were anti-socialism???

I have no way of proving this, but considering the Horizon is now 16th in RPI and only had 2 teams finished above .500 outside of league play, I think there's been a drop in recruiting. The perception of the league is important and recruits want to play in the most competitive conference possible. It had to have been a good sell for recruits that they'd be playing against Sweet 16, Final Four teams. Would Cleveland State have gotten Grady in 2011 without referencing the league's postseason success? Alec Brown? Forbes? Jay Harris (laugh, he was a ESPN top 100 recruit)? The league's recruiting in the past couple of years seems to be weaker than what it was in the past going off of the ESPN recruiting ranks.  The recruiting seems to be reflected in the competitiveness of the league outside of the conference. It's not like Butler was steamrolling everyone with this format. Butler may have been getting richer, but when Butler left, they hadn't hosted the tournament in 2 seasons. They didn't win the regular season in 2011 (neutral site for Butler vs UWM would have made it LESS competitive against Butler), and in 2009 the league actually sent two teams to the tournament because Butler lost (and Cleveland State went on to win a game in the tourney). Wright State actually won the tournament in 2007 and we sent 2 teams again. Before that was UWM's run. Imagine our run in 2013 being played at on a neutral court, which may have been the difference between a postseason berth and a loss. That would've been the most depressing NIT game ever. Or this year, maybe Cleveland State beats us on a neutral court and rolls into Indianapolis to beat Green Bay. How would watching another HL 15 seed be in the best interest of the conference? At this point Valpo isn't an at-large, and I doubt next year they'll be at-large-caliber either. It's way too premature to be labeling Valpo as a team getting rich while the others are getting poorer. We're sitting at 1 total appearance and 0 tournament victories.

I think you can see a similar thing going on in the MVC with Wichita State. Is Wichita State not doing anything for the MVC? I think that'd be a silly conclusion. They have two legitimate at-large programs and the legitimacy of the conference is at its highest point despite losing Creighton.

You make some interesting points, but I can just as easily argue that the decline in recruiting is due to coaching changes and has nothing to with Butler.  I like Rob Jeter, but let's face it, he's no Bruce Pearl.  I like Billy Donlon, but he has proven to be no Brad Brownell.  Pearl and Brownell are excellent coaches and recruiters everywhere they've been.  They didn't need scraps off Butler's table to kick start their success. Bryce is out of the same mold.  He's an excellent coach and recruiter, with or without the presence Butler.  Like Brownell and Pearl, he's already had offers from bigger programs and will continue to do so. Even Jimmy Collins had some big time players and powerhouse teams before Butler was anything to talk about.  I think most people would agree that at this point Howard Moore has been a poor replacement.

I can't disagree with this at all, but I still think both play a role. Some of the recruits in 2009, 2010, 2011 these coaches were getting aren't having as much success now. I'd imagine recruits perceive the MVC as a vastly superior conference due to Wichita State and UNI being ranked and high profile teams.

Anyways, I think you touched on a good point with the coaching - its not really the tournament format  that's holding the league back, its the poor coaching and poor performance outside of the conference. Moore, Jeter, the fossil Slocum... these guys aren't going to elevate the league regardless of the format.

[oklahomamick]

I would place Ray in there too. Even though he has recruited well I think he is a bad coach.  It's street ball and the players disrespect each other and the coach. 

[agibson]

It is my fervent hope that we never fall into the Butler arrogance mentality. I would much prefer life as a perennial top mid-major program than the next Butler wanna be emulator.

I get that, I think.  But, I'd sure love to do that while acting like a Milwaukee or a Butler (or maybe a Xavier, etc.) of the Horizon of years past.  It'd be really cool to have an at-large one day.  At least as an insurance policy.  Or even a serious chance at one as an insurance policy.  To come into the NCAA tournament with a >25% chance, maybe >35%, chance of winning a game

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Someone somewhere argued for reseeding--e.g. we'd have played UIC while GB got CSU--but that actually works against the double bye, part of the rationale for which includes insulating top schools from the RPI hits of playing the YSUs and UICs of the league.

[a3uge]

Someone somewhere argued for reseeding--e.g. we'd have played UIC while GB got CSU--but that actually works against the double bye, part of the rationale for which includes insulating top schools from the RPI hits of playing the YSUs and UICs of the league.

They should just make the bottom 5 seeds play each other until 2 teams reach a respectable RPI level. They could just play one game a day for a week straight, and then take the top 2 RPI teams from that.