Horizon League 2015-2016

[a3uge]

OK.  Educate me.

What in the world is so bad about their new floor?

Hmm... I wonder?

[StlVUFan]

OK.  Educate me.

What in the world is so bad about their new floor?

Hmm... I wonder?

I asked first.

[valpopal]

3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters.  They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference. 

Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.

[vu72]

3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters.  They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference.

Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.

No doubt.  They lost their other star(Lee) to graduation so their top 3 from last year are all gone.  Something must be going on there.  Just too many kids not sticking around.  It may be due to all the redshirts.  Obviously, if you sit a year then logically you can graduate and still have a year of eligibility left.  Waters must be crushed.

[oklahomamick]

It's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools. 

[valpopal]

Center recruit Julian Torres (6'9" 240 lb.) who de-committed from Green Bay after Wardle left has now committed to UIC.

[valporun]

Green Bay also lost Antwon Pittman, from Rockford, IL, after Wardle left. Have not heard where he'll end up, but he opened up his recruitment again.

[VULB#62]

From the Peoria Journal Star:

PEORIA – Bradley men's basketball received a fourth commitment to coach Brian Wardle's new regime Friday when 6-foot-3 shooting guard Antoine Pittman gave his verbal commitment to attend Bradley.
Pittman, a senior at Rockford Auburn High School who led his team to a 29-2 season, signed with Wardle's Green Bay program in the fall and then decommitted upon Wardle's move to BU.
Since he already signed his one allowed National Letter of Intent, Pittman's process for admission will take a bit longer. Wardle isn't allowed to comment on Pittman and point guard Joel Okafor, another Green Bay recruit who committed to BU earlier this week, until they are officially enrolled.

[agibson]

3. CSU - Grady and Lewis are back and that is all that matters.  They have the potential to be a top 100 RPI team coming into conference.

Word this morning has it that Anton Grady has received his release, and Lewis is already gone. These losses should take CSU out of the top tier next year.

Argh!  I even checked this thread before posting the news elsewhere.  Not carefully enough, obviously...

[wh]

I think this Milw poster makes a good point about mid major conferences working together for scheduling and RPI building:


   BBFran
Clay Tucker Fan Club

Apr 28, 2015 at 5:44pm
Quote
Good info JG; I was just thinking about it from a Men's BB standpoint.

To dylan's point, that's why I think it's vital for mid-major leagues to work together. Imagine if the MAC, Horizon, Big West, Colonial Athletic, West Coast and Metro Atlantic leagues would do this. With the exception of a tiny handful of schools in those conferences (and they are all named Gonzaga) every member of those leagues has the same problem. So why not play each other more often and leave the low majors to play their buy games against the big boys. There will still be opportunities (mostly in pre-season tournaments, and through affinity connections like UW/UWM) to play some high majors. But to think the world is going to shift on its axis suddenly and the power conference teams are going to start doing straight 1 to 1 home and homes with mids? I wish it were otherwise but that's simply not going to happen in an age when every power conference school is desperate for home game ticket revenue because of what they have to pay their coaches, and fearful that a loss to a non-power school will threaten their tournament chances or seeding.

[vu72]

My understanding is that next year The Big Ten is doing a challenge with the Big East, in addition to their challenge with the ACC.  Obviously this adds quality games and strength of schedule.  The Horizon needs to be in at least one such challenge for the same reasons.

[blackpantheruwm]

I wrote a little diddy on PantherU that is very similar to what has been said here and in Fran's post on the UWMFreak board:

http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/

As far as how the league shakes out next year, I will say that in this league there are NO sure things. The closest thing to a sure thing is Valpo, and Oakland not too far after that. I know what we have coming in and what we have coming back, but as usual I try not to play it up too much. So I won't say things like I think we're going to own the Horizon League much because I know I'll get laughed out of the conversation. We also have a couple pieces to add (one won't play next season but walk-on and then get a scholarship after his transfer) so we're not set.

But things happen anyway. Valpo looks strong, but what kind of team will be on the court if they don't have one of the Walkers and Peters? That's the season Wright State faced last year. I don't care if you're Kentucky - take away a team's best player or 2nd best player and you have a completely different team. When we lost Arians for the year (he recovered from the injury and could have played beginning of December but he decided to redshirt), there was a big learning curve we had to deal with. Akeem Springs broke his hand during the Auburn game and was playing hurt through mid-January. See how mediocre we were because of it? Yet once Springs got back and we figured out how to play without Arians, we won 7 of our last 9. We almost beat you guys in the second game, and would have won 8 of 9. We'll be just fine. The point is that injuries happen, so predicting the order of finish is foolhardy.

[vu72]

I wrote a little diddy on PantherU that is very similar to what has been said here and in Fran's post on the UWMFreak board:

http://pantheru.com/2015/05/horizon-league-should-seek-all-challengers/

As far as how the league shakes out next year, I will say that in this league there are NO sure things. The closest thing to a sure thing is Valpo, and Oakland not too far after that. I know what we have coming in and what we have coming back, but as usual I try not to play it up too much. So I won't say things like I think we're going to own the Horizon League much because I know I'll get laughed out of the conversation. We also have a couple pieces to add (one won't play next season but walk-on and then get a scholarship after his transfer) so we're not set.

But things happen anyway. Valpo looks strong, but what kind of team will be on the court if they don't have one of the Walkers and Peters? That's the season Wright State faced last year. I don't care if you're Kentucky - take away a team's best player or 2nd best player and you have a completely different team. When we lost Arians for the year (he recovered from the injury and could have played beginning of December but he decided to redshirt), there was a big learning curve we had to deal with. Akeem Springs broke his hand during the Auburn game and was playing hurt through mid-January. See how mediocre we were because of it? Yet once Springs got back and we figured out how to play without Arians, we won 7 of our last 9. We almost beat you guys in the second game, and would have won 8 of 9. We'll be just fine. The point is that injuries happen, so predicting the order of finish is foolhardy.

All valid points. We have had some experience playing without key players.  Last year we had our starting point guard miss the entire season and our backup point guard miss 14 games with an injury.  We played the title game with both Walkers either out or hurting. Obviously Alec is a different story.  If he goes down things are different but still, in the title game, by his own admission, he "couldn't throw it in the ocean".  Somehow we still won.  We will be adding some key guys next year as will most teams.  Hopefully your team can win some OC games.

[justducky]

I've mentally gathered cows from every county which I'll now herd before you under this general topic.

First off it will be great to get back to Thursday-Saturday and Friday-Sunday conference weekend road trips and long home week ends. A 10'th team just makes scheduling and travel so much easier! Having UIC for a travel partner instead of Butler-- well thats another story. I watched the Steve McClain introduction and speech and just maybe he is the type of coach who can get that program turned around. UIC should win a couple extra HL games next season just by virtue of being our partner. VU on the other hand might drop a couple extra by virtue of everyone focusing on us. 

An unmentioned benefit to NKUs HL acceptance is that we now need to find 2 fewer OOC opponents. I am almost afraid to bring this subject up but we are getting into late May with only one scheduled OOC game and that with Indiana St. Somebody correct me if Ball St or IPFW or any other unfinished or renewed contracts exist? Any rumors or thoughts? I am afraid that we are just too good in todays world of basketball to easily find the kind of of opponents the we want.

Would still love to make the trip to ND for a game. They lost only 2 senior players (not sure about transfers or injuries) and we lost only one. In the old days they would have jumped at such an opportunity. A trip to Purdue would also be nice. Yes I realize that the state of todays game has turned many otherwise honorable coaches into silent cowards but?

If with 10 teams a conference challenge can't be done then we should be prepared to quickly drop the concept and move on.

[covufan]

Any rumors or thoughts?

Hmm, I'm sure there are many.  Rumor: The OOC home schedule will not include 3 teams that are less than Division I. 

[Chuck A]

It's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.

It might be, but don't count out Milwaukee and Detroit. As a matter of fact, while others keep complaining about the League, this will be another competitive season. Heck, UIC might surprise this season!

[a3uge]

It's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.

It might be, but don't count out Milwaukee and Detroit. As a matter of fact, while others keep complaining about the League, this will be another competitive season. Heck, UIC might surprise this season!

We just want to see more than one other school with a winning record.

[valpopal]

Oakland has announced their non-conference schedule. I think it looks like a good mix this year: http://www.goldengrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/060815aab.html

[blackpantheruwm]

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

[VULB#62]

Hope we do the same.  to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past.  If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.

[valpospartan]

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East

w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC

w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)

w Non-D1

We'd complain if we had these teams at home.

[blackpantheruwm]

Hope we do the same.  to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past.  If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.

The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East

w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC

w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)

w Non-D1

We'd complain if we had these teams at home.

You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:

Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.

Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.

[StlVUFan]

Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.

I'm not the least bit connected in the way you describe, and *I* can figure this much out.

There might be room for improvement, but if anyone is forming a posse to descend on our Men's basketball program and demand better scheduling at gunpoint, you can count me out.  It's not a fair fight, and I think that's about more even than just getting the high majors to play us.  For whatever reason, getting quality mid-majors to play each other on a regular basis is hardly child's play (it's easi-er, I get that, but it's still not easy).  We all worship the big boys and desperately want to be liked by them, no matter what it takes, even to the point of shunning each other and pretending we are like them by turning the tables with those who would be considered cup-cakes to us..  If the fabled Mid-Majority ever started boycotting guarantee games with the big schools en masse in favor of playing each other, I'd faint from shock.

The most extreme reaction I can muster to weak non-conference scheduling in the HL is disappointment and sadness.

[a3uge]

Hope we do the same.  to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past.  If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.

The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East

w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC

w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)

w Non-D1

We'd complain if we had these teams at home.

You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:

Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.

Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.

Spot on, can't blame any mid major team for not having decent home opponents. If you look around the league, some schools only have 1 or 2 DI opponents at home. I think Valpo has done a good job of getting better schools at home - Murray State, Purdue, Marquette, New Mexico, and SLU have all come

Hope we do the same.  to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past.  If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.

The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East

w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC

w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)

w Non-D1

We'd complain if we had these teams at home.

You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:

Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.

Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.

Spot on, can't blame any mid major team for not having decent home opponents. If you look around the league, some schools only have 2 or 3 DI opponents at home each year. Power conference schools in contention will only play 1-2 road games, and only against top teams. I think Valpo has done an average job of getting better schools at home - Murray State, Purdue, Marquette, New Mexico, and SLU have all come recently.

Hope we do the same.  to get to the next level, our kids need better challenges than we've given them in the past.  If Kampe can adjust like this, we should be able to to do likewise.

The problem is that Valpo looks considerably better than Oakland on paper. That is a big deal to high-majors looking at scheduling the Crusaders, who may want to wait for Valpo to have a down year before stepping in the ring with them.

I think OU put together a balanced, solid schedule. I was hoping they'd get around to doing that.

w Binghamton -- 6-26, 5-11 America East

w Chicago State -- 8-24, 4-10 WAC

w Eastern Michigan -- 21-14, 8-10 MAC (CBI Opening Round)

w Non-D1

We'd complain if we had these teams at home.

You would? A sampling of Valpo home games over the past three years:

Maine - 3-27
Arkansas Pine Bluff - 12-20
Ball State - 6-23
Loyola Marymount - 12-19
James Madison - 11-20
UCF - 11-18
Georgia Southern - 12-19
Northern Illinois - 4-25
Chicago State - 7-21
Bethune-Cookman - 12-20
IUPUI - 4-26

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know what you're talking about. Mid-major scheduling is extremely difficult, no more so than when you are a successful mid-major (50-150 RPI or better). I'm sure there are people on this board who are as connected to Valpo hoops as I am to Milwaukee hoops, so hopefully they can share some examples. Just this offseason we've had two Big Ten teams negotiated for buy games back out on us once they took a real look at our roster. I imagine many high-majors (or at least those who don't have the stones) would look at Valpo, who looks even better than Milwaukee on paper, and not even entertain the idea of a game.

Low-major games and non-D-I games are the nature of the beast. If you ask me, I'd rather play another non-D-I game that wouldn't hurt our RPI instead of a low-major like IUPUI, but you have to take what you can get and D-I victories are part of the deal.

[valporun]

Maine, Arkansas Pine Bluff, and Bethune Cookman were tournament games at neutral courts. We were designated the home team, but they weren't true home games. The LMU game was a return matchup from Bracketbusters. Also, if you look at the rosters we had during those seasons, we were coming into each season with huge questions left unanswered from the year before. I get that most of you dislike us playing non D-1 schools during the season, but either we draw the short end of the stick in a tournament, or we schedule these games as "breathers" after a stretch of tough opponents so our starters can get some rest, and the bench can get some quality minutes/action, even if some of the players on the bench shouldn't be playing D-I basketball. I know it sucks watching Valpo destroy a non D-I opponent, but some of those games are also meant to prepare us for trap games or give us an idea of what a Max Joseph or Clay Yeo could do at the D-I level, not just make it so Alec scores 20 points in 15 minutes, and sits most of the game because we're leading by 45 at halftime.