(This year's) Transfer(s) (?!)

[VULB#62]

It's been so long ago.  Can someone go back in time and remember exactly why Vashil actually lost a year of eligibility? Based on his academic accomplishments it could not have been because of academic qualifying standards.  So it must have been about basketball.

[valpo4life]

If I remember right his ineligibility might have had something to do with jumping around high schools. Playing his last at a prep school in 2010-2011. Vashil was never redshirted. I don't think this is a case of 5 years to play 4. So unless the NCAA surprisingly went back on a ruling from 4 years ago, this is all nonsense to me.

[FWalum]

I still don't believe this could be happening unless other more recent cases of a similar nature had been ruled upon differently and Vashil has reopened his case with the NCAA based upon these more recent cases.  We all have been asking. "Vashil has already graduated with a Masters Degree, why would he want to stay instead of making money in Europe?"  However, I am not aware of at what stage his wife is in the education or job process.  Perhaps she is not ready to leave the school or the area with a very young child in tow.

[justducky]

I still don't believe this could be happening unless other more recent cases of a similar nature had been ruled upon differently and Vashil has reopened his case with the NCAA based upon these more recent cases.

I instantly drew the same conclusion. Any other path would seem extremely remote.

"Vashil has already graduated with a Masters Degree, why would he want to stay instead of making money in Europe?"  However, I am not aware of at what stage his wife is in the education or job process.  Perhaps she is not ready to leave the school or the area with a very young child in tow.

His performance last year was night vs day in comparison with the previous year. For somebody who has suddenly "learned" the game could his re'sume' be strengthened sufficiently with the additional year to warrant the loss of a years pro pay? I guess eventually enough will come out that we can understand the whole process and thinking. Or we can wipe the egg off our faces for being gullible enough to buy into this whole conversation.

[valpo64]

I have not seen comments lately regarding the Vashil discussion...is it a dead issue now?

[Chairback]

Not at all.

[Smj]

enough is enough ....   Could this Vashil talk get resolved already?   

[hoopfan22]

It will get resolved when they figure out who's getting "Creaned". He's coming back though.

[bbtds]

It will get resolved when they figure out who's getting "Creaned". He's coming back though.

I agree. It's not about Vashil coming back (unless he can find a better situation for him personally at another school) but who on this Valpo team gets told there is no longer an athletic scholarship for him. I'm sure it's an agonizing decision for Bryce. That decision must be made by August when Valpo takes off for it's Canada exhibition trip.

[78crusader]

Couldn't they simply put Vashil, or someone else, on an academic scholarship?

Paul

[VULB#62]

Vashil certainly would qualify.

[FWalum]

Should be easy to come up with a candidate, just make sure you dot the i's and cross the t's because this will get looked at from a compliance standpoint.  I would certainly think that we would have a number of players who would qualify.

[ValpoHoops]

It's not that simple. The NCAA has fairly strict rules about it, so schools can't simply abuse it to have more than the allowed number of scholarships.

There are certainly many qualifications that our players would have, but there are some that involve "official" visits, whether "athletic ability" had anything to do, etc.

It might be more trouble than its worth, if there's a player who could be moved off of scholarship and out of the program fairly easily.

[vu72]

It's not that simple. The NCAA has fairly strict rules about it, so schools can't simply abuse it to have more than the allowed number of scholarships.

There are certainly many qualifications that our players would have, but there are some that involve "official" visits, whether "athletic ability" had anything to do, etc.

It might be more trouble than its worth, if there's a player who could be moved off of scholarship and out of the program fairly easily.

Could it be as simple as Vashil applying for a need based/academic scholarship as he has already graduated.  No one would argue with a 4.0 GPA in the international commerce and policy student qualifying for a scholarship.  Wouldn't that make him a "walk-on"??

[VULB#62]

Gotta go with ValpoHoops on this  The NCAA would NEVER make it easy and would NEVER use basic logic.  If it were as simple as a need-based academic scholarship, the matter would have been resolved long ago and the announcement made.  On the other hand...... maybe it's just the NCAA bureaucracy slow-boating the probable tomes of meaningless paperwork it requires to be filed.

[vu72]

I found this on Wikipedia (so it has to be true right?) Read the part about Doug McDermott, the exact situation we are facing:

Finally, in rare cases, an established scholarship player may become a walk-on in order to open up his or her scholarship for another player. Three such cases in men's college basketball have received notoriety in recent years:
In 2011–12, three Louisville scholarship players, most notably Kyle Kuric and Chris Smith, became walk-ons to bring the Cardinals' scholarship totals down to the NCAA limit of 13.[1]
In 2013–14, Creighton's Doug McDermott (the son of Creighton's head coach) became a walk-on after a teammate was granted a rare sixth year of eligibility by the NCAA, putting the Bluejays over the 13-scholarship limit.[2]
In 2014–15, Xavier starting center Matt Stainbrook, enrolled in the school's MBA program, gave up his scholarship for his younger brother Tim, who had been a walk-on at Xavier the year before, in order to save their family a five-figure amount in school expenses. This led him to become a driver for the on-demand car service Uber, which gained him significant notoriety during that season.[3]

[nkvu]

As I posted before the part about Stainbrook was reported in the Cincinnati paper so assume it is accurate.  What wasn't reported was whether Stainbrook received any other type of financial aide from Xavier or whether he and/or his family paid the full cost of his last year.

[justducky]

It's not that simple. The NCAA has fairly strict rules about it, so schools can't simply abuse it to have more than the allowed number of scholarships.

There are certainly many qualifications that our players would have, but there are some that involve "official" visits, whether "athletic ability" had anything to do, etc.

It might be more trouble than its worth, if there's a player who could be moved off of scholarship and out of the program fairly easily.

This is something that I am glad is not simple. If it were simple the BIGS would figure out how to best exploit it towards controlling an even greater portion of the developed and developing talent pool. Vashil might be a perfect example of someone the BIGS might have recruited and stockpiled towards the goal of either getting 2 good years from him or encouraging him to transfer early (with Vashil that wouldn't have been an easy call).

[zvillehaze]

I found this on Wikipedia (so it has to be true right?) Read the part about Doug McDermott, the exact situation we are facing:

Finally, in rare cases, an established scholarship player may become a walk-on in order to open up his or her scholarship for another player. Three such cases in men's college basketball have received notoriety in recent years:
In 2011–12, three Louisville scholarship players, most notably Kyle Kuric and Chris Smith, became walk-ons to bring the Cardinals' scholarship totals down to the NCAA limit of 13.[1]
In 2013–14, Creighton's Doug McDermott (the son of Creighton's head coach) became a walk-on after a teammate was granted a rare sixth year of eligibility by the NCAA, putting the Bluejays over the 13-scholarship limit.[2]
In 2014–15, Xavier starting center Matt Stainbrook, enrolled in the school's MBA program, gave up his scholarship for his younger brother Tim, who had been a walk-on at Xavier the year before, in order to save their family a five-figure amount in school expenses. This led him to become a driver for the on-demand car service Uber, which gained him significant notoriety during that season.[3]

This topic can be confusing, but the NCAA has closed some loopholes to prevent larger schools (SEC football programs) from recruiting players, then putting them on something other than an athletic scholarship (ie. academic aid or a scholarship funded by a rich alum for students standing over 6'5" and weighing at least 320 lbs.).  The NCAA uses the definition of "recruited athlete".  If a player attends a university as a "recruited athlete", then they count against the scholarship limit if the receive any financial aid (athletic or otherwise).

The examples that vu72 provides shows that athletes can go from scholarship to walk-on, but what he doesn't cover is that if they received academic or need-based aid, they would still count against the scholarship limit.  I'm familiar with the examples he refers to and here are the facts:
1.  Kyle Kuric attended Louisville with the understanding that his athletic scholarship could be taken away if it was needed for other players.  His father, an surgeon in Evansville, paid the cost of attendance when Kyle's scholarship was needed for another player.
2.  McDermott gave up his scholarship.  His father was making millions as the head coach and was able to cover his son's cost of attendance.
3.  For the Stainbrook's, they chose to pay for Matt's Grad school because it was less expensive than his younger brother's undergrad tuition.

From what I know, all of Valpo's 14 players (assuming Vashil returns) will be designated as "recruited athletes".  That pretty much means that someone has to pay their own way or that someone has to go.  Just my take on the situation based on what I know.

[vu72]

It's not that simple. The NCAA has fairly strict rules about it, so schools can't simply abuse it to have more than the allowed number of scholarships.

There are certainly many qualifications that our players would have, but there are some that involve "official" visits, whether "athletic ability" had anything to do, etc.

It might be more trouble than its worth, if there's a player who could be moved off of scholarship and out of the program fairly easily.

This is something that I am glad is not simple. If it were simple the BIGS would figure out how to best exploit it towards controlling an even greater portion of the developed and developing talent pool. Vashil might be a perfect example of someone the BIGS might have recruited and stockpiled towards the goal of either getting 2 good years from him or encouraging him to transfer early (with Vashil that wouldn't have been an easy call).

I found this on Wikipedia (so it has to be true right?) Read the part about Doug McDermott, the exact situation we are facing:

Finally, in rare cases, an established scholarship player may become a walk-on in order to open up his or her scholarship for another player. Three such cases in men's college basketball have received notoriety in recent years:
In 2011–12, three Louisville scholarship players, most notably Kyle Kuric and Chris Smith, became walk-ons to bring the Cardinals' scholarship totals down to the NCAA limit of 13.[1]
In 2013–14, Creighton's Doug McDermott (the son of Creighton's head coach) became a walk-on after a teammate was granted a rare sixth year of eligibility by the NCAA, putting the Bluejays over the 13-scholarship limit.[2]
In 2014–15, Xavier starting center Matt Stainbrook, enrolled in the school's MBA program, gave up his scholarship for his younger brother Tim, who had been a walk-on at Xavier the year before, in order to save their family a five-figure amount in school expenses. This led him to become a driver for the on-demand car service Uber, which gained him significant notoriety during that season.[3]

This topic can be confusing, but the NCAA has closed some loopholes to prevent larger schools (SEC football programs) from recruiting players, then putting them on something other than an athletic scholarship (ie. academic aid or a scholarship funded by a rich alum for students standing over 6'5" and weighing at least 320 lbs.).  The NCAA uses the definition of "recruited athlete".  If a player attends a university as a "recruited athlete", then they count against the scholarship limit if the receive any financial aid (athletic or otherwise).

The examples that vu72 provides shows that athletes can go from scholarship to walk-on, but what he doesn't cover is that if they received academic or need-based aid, they would still count against the scholarship limit.  I'm familiar with the examples he refers to and here are the facts:
1.  Kyle Kuric attended Louisville with the understanding that his athletic scholarship could be taken away if it was needed for other players.  His father, an surgeon in Evansville, paid the cost of attendance when Kyle's scholarship was needed for another player.
2.  McDermott gave up his scholarship.  His father was making millions as the head coach and was able to cover his son's cost of attendance.
3.  For the Stainbrook's, they chose to pay for Matt's Grad school because it was less expensive than his younger brother's undergrad tuition.

From what I know, all of Valpo's 14 players (assuming Vashil returns) will be designated as "recruited athletes".  That pretty much means that someone has to pay their own way or that someone has to go.  Just my take on the situation based on what I know.

Thanks for those clarifications.  It adds much.

[a3uge]

So does Valpo have Uber yet? I used it in Merrillville a couple months ago... So maybe Vashil can make this work...

[nkvu]

Ok. Way, way back in the day the state of Indiana gave scholarships to achedemically qualified Indiana residents to go to Indiana colleges based on need.  That helped me finance my time at valpo. Has that program gone away or would that be something a Nick Davidson could qualify for?  It wouldn't be Valpo money but money available to any qualified Indiana resident.  Of course it wouldn't surprise me if that program died long ago.

[bbtds]

Ok. Way, way back in the day the state of Indiana gave scholarships to achedemically qualified Indiana residents to go to Indiana colleges based on need.  That helped me finance my time at valpo. Has that program gone away or would that be something a Nick Davidson could qualify for?  It wouldn't be Valpo money but money available to any qualified Indiana resident.  Of course it wouldn't surprise me if that program died long ago.

I think you missed zville's point about any "recruited athlete" receiving scholarship funds then those funds are considered "athletic scholarships" no matter the source of the funds. Nick Davidson or any other member of the Valpo team is considered a "recruited athlete" and per the NCAA only 13 members of the men's basketball team can receive any scholarship funds be they athletic funds or other funds.

The NCAA uses the definition of "recruited athlete".  If a player attends a university as a "recruited athlete", then they count against the scholarship limit if the receive any financial aid (athletic or otherwise).

[nkvu]

So the source of the aide doesn't matter. Even if it has nothing to do with the school?  If it comes from some other source entirely?

[bbtds]

So does Valpo have Uber yet? I used it in Merrillville a couple months ago... So maybe Vashil can make this work...

https://www.uber.com/cities/nw-indiana

Uber-NW Indiana does include the city of Valparaiso. I have people I know who work in the Uber-Indianapolis system. They have told me that unless there are large numbers of Uber drivers in an area the cost gets prohibitive due to the distance a driver from another area (in the case of Valpo it most likely means dispatching a driver from Lake County) has to travel to the passenger for a pick up. Uber prices will go down as more and more drivers from Valpo are recruited.