Regilious Freedom Act

[bbtds]

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/matthew-tully/2015/04/01/tully-mike-pence-league-governor/70746540/

Mike Pence is out of his league as governor

When you have to "clarify" a horribly damaging piece of legislation that you raced to sign, when you dodge a question on national TV about whether discrimination is legal in your state, when you deal your state a crushing economic blow, when you seem incapable of understanding the role you have played in creating this mess — well, that makes clear that you are not in the right job.

I have a feeling there are some that will call for the impeachment of Mike Pence as governor. He has hurt the state beyond repair. I don't believe there will be enough votes for his impeachment but Indiana has not had this poor of leadership in a long time. 

[FWalum]

This is being blown completely out of proportion.  The law will be amended WAY before it takes effect in July. No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 
Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Explained

Fixing Indiana's Religious-Freedom Law

It will be interesting to see if this wakes up the religious right at all.  Hard to believe that such a small minority can cause so much angst.  Americans Have No Idea How Few Gay People There Are

[valpotx]

I won't say much on this topic, other than that I agree with FWalum that this has been blown completely out of proportion...

[crusaderjoe]

President Heckler's statement:

http://www.valpo.edu/news/2015/03/30/president-heckler-issues-statement-on-indianas-religious-freedom-restoration-act/

From the statement:

"Valparaiso University's Board-approved non-discrimination statement welcomes all people regardless of race, ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, or religion."

Interestingly, disabled individuals, who have federal protection mechanisms available to them in various capacities, were not included within that statement.  Why?  I find this extremely curious as an academic institution, since there may be students who attend VU currently that were eligible to receive services and supports under the Individuals With Disabilities Educational Act in lower, middle, or high school in order to get to college.

[a3uge]

This is being blown completely out of proportion.  The law will be amended WAY before it takes effect in July. No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 
Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Explained

Fixing Indiana's Religious-Freedom Law

It will be interesting to see if this wakes up the religious right at all.  Hard to believe that such a small minority can cause so much angst.  Americans Have No Idea How Few Gay People There Are

I agree that the bill is being blown WAY out of proportion. But this just isnt playing nice with moderates. The law probably will affect, what, 2-3 people a year... probably more lawsuit trolls than anyone legitimately being denied a service they want for being gay. Here's how a real life situation would likely go down between, say a  photographer uncomfortable with gay marriage and a gay couple:

Gay Couple: We are interested in your photography, do you have much experience in gay weddings?

Photographer: I've never worked a gay wedding before, so I'm not sure you'd get the best experience from our company. I know a few photographers that do good work...

Gay Couple: Okay, thanks!

Really, how many cake companies or photographers in Indiana are there that won't take money from clients because they're gay? I think I've read like one story of a pizza place that would refuse to cater gay weddings. Really? A pizza place catering a wedding? I've never even heard of pizza at a wedding. I think you'll find only 3-4 legitimate businesses actually stupid enough to publicly claim they'll deny service to gay couples for religious reasons.

With that being said, the idiots advising Pence need to be fired immediately. The bill is way more trouble than its worth. To have this passed right before the Final Four in Indianapolis was the cherry on top. Absolutely idiotic political consulting here.

Moving from Wisconsin to Indiana, its clear the Republican party is a LOT more competent up north. When Scott Walker passed ACT 10 barring collective bargaining on non-salary incentives, it was a battle worth fighting for with actual benefits. Wisconsin saved over $2 billion in taxes that were essentially wasted through the public sector union created insurance company that was artificially jacking up rates. That issue riled up the base and won over moderates, even though there was a massive temper tantrum from the always-protesting crowd. The pro-Walker crowd, got sick of these guys doing things like: (to name a few) writing death threats against Walker, interrupting a Special Olympics medal ceremony where Walker was presenting, and protesting with bullhorns outside of Scott Walker's parents house.

In this case? Well, it's not the taxpayers being saved from a massive ponzi scheme, its just a couple of people uncomfortable baking cakes for gay people. Is it really worth the mob for this? It just doesn't make sense why this bill needed to be passed.

[IndyValpo]

This is being blown completely out of proportion.  The law will be amended WAY before it takes effect in July. No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 
Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Explained

Fixing Indiana's Religious-Freedom Law

It will be interesting to see if this wakes up the religious right at all.  Hard to believe that such a small minority can cause so much angst.  Americans Have No Idea How Few Gay People There Are

And this is the entire problem. There was absolutely no need for this bill. All it did was play to Pence's base.

Sadly, business has already been lost, talk to the head of Visit Indy. Fishers just lost a potential new business because of it.

Actually this hurts all Hoosiers because Pence might have run for President. To do that he would not have run for re-election which would be a victory for all.

[valpopal]

I cannot speak highly enough of the statement by President Heckler.

Valparaiso has an overseas program in China, and many international students' tuitions apparently are funded by countries that discriminate and are terrible on their own records of civil rights or in tacitly complicit partnerships with other governments who engage in horrible treatment of gays, women, or Christians. I will be more impressed when a similarly public and high profile statement by the University is directed toward the practices of those bodies.

[78crusader]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

[IndyValpo]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

Yet another reason why this bill was unnecessary.  In the big scheme of things...not very important

[a3uge]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

Yet another reason why this bill was unnecessary.  In the big scheme of things...not very important

So every state's government should halt right now?

[bbtds]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

Yet another reason why this bill was unnecessary.  In the big scheme of things...not very important

So every state's government should halt right now?

Asa Hutchinson, the governor of Arkansas, is no dummy. He has told his legislature in Arkansas to recall or amend their RFRA bill or he will seek to balance the "competing constitutional obligations" if the Arkansas legislature does not amend their bill. Gov. Hutchinson has seen what happened in Indiana and has heard the backlash in his own state and is moving in a much more wise manner than his counterparts in Indiana. A much more wise leader.

Gov. Hutchinson says the Arkansas' RFRA needs to mirror exactly the federal RFRA and he can then avoid all the issues that have happened in Indiana. Pence acted unwisely. Hutchinson seeing the writing on the wall about loss of business to his state is a much more wise politician.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/us/arkansas-indiana-religious-freedom-hutchinson-pence.html?_r=0

[usc4valpo]

Pence had aspirations to run for President? That is hilarious. Maybe Michelle Bachmann can be his running mate.

[a3uge]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

Yet another reason why this bill was unnecessary.  In the big scheme of things...not very important

So every state's government should halt right now?

Asa Hutchinson, the governor of Arkansas, is no dummy. He has told his legislature in Arkansas to recall or amend their RFRA bill or he will seek to balance the "competing constitutional obligations" if the Arkansas legislature does not amend their bill. Gov. Hutchinson has seen what happened in Indiana and has heard the backlash in his own state and is moving in a much more wise manner than his counterparts in Indiana. A much more wise leader.

Gov. Hutchinson says the Arkansas' RFRA needs to mirror exactly the federal RFRA and he can then avoid all the issues that have happened in Indiana. Pence acted unwisely. Hutchinson seeing the writing on the wall about loss of business to his state is a much more wise politician.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/02/us/arkansas-indiana-religious-freedom-hutchinson-pence.html?_r=0

I agree with this, but the notion that state governments shouldn't be passing legislation deemed "not very important" because of conflict in Iran seems pretty stupid.

[bbtds]

No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2015/03/28/angies-list-canceling-eastside-expansion-rfra/70590738/

The continuing blowback over Indiana's new "religious freedom" law hit home Saturday, with Indianapolis-based Angie's List announcing it is canceling a $40 million headquarters expansion.

The decision is a direct result of passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, co-founder and chief executive officer Bill Oesterle said Saturday.

The proposed expansion of the online consumer ratings service was touted to add 1,000 good-paying jobs over five years and help revitalize a struggling Eastside neighborhood.

This could be a sign of other things to come," warned Zach Adamson, the Democrat councilman who represents the neighborhood where the $40 million expansion was planned.

"It has only been two days since the bill was signed and we're already hearing of other things. This is not good."

1,000 paying jobs lost in Indy. Listen to the video in which the CEO of Angie's List explains their reasoning for cancelling their expansion project. If that is not business lost, what is?

[usc4valpo]

78Crusader - yep, I saw this on Fox and Friends this morning as they were trying to defend Pence and the far right supporters. The best thing Indiana can do is completely bag this law and work on more important things.

[IndyValpo]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

Yet another reason why this bill was unnecessary.  In the big scheme of things...not very important

So every state's government should halt right now?

Passing unnecessary legislation that actually hurts the state, yes.

[a3uge]

No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2015/03/28/angies-list-canceling-eastside-expansion-rfra/70590738/

The continuing blowback over Indiana's new "religious freedom" law hit home Saturday, with Indianapolis-based Angie's List announcing it is canceling a $40 million headquarters expansion.

The decision is a direct result of passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, co-founder and chief executive officer Bill Oesterle said Saturday.

The proposed expansion of the online consumer ratings service was touted to add 1,000 good-paying jobs over five years and help revitalize a struggling Eastside neighborhood.

This could be a sign of other things to come," warned Zach Adamson, the Democrat councilman who represents the neighborhood where the $40 million expansion was planned.

"It has only been two days since the bill was signed and we're already hearing of other things. This is not good."

1,000 paying jobs lost in Indy. Listen to the video in which the CEO of Angie's List explains their reasoning for cancelling their expansion project. If that is not business lost, what is?

That's probably a bad example. Angies List hasn't turned a profit in 20 years and was getting an $18 million bond for their renovations. There's no way they would ever be able to pay back those obligations with a business model that charges for a service anyone can find for free from various reliable sources. This was likely Angie's List covering themselves - I highly doubt a $40 investment and 1000 new hires will come in a different state.

[valpopal]

the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it

For some, I think Indiana is just a warm-up for next year when the Final Four will be in Texas.

[a3uge]

the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it

For some, I think Indiana is just a warm-up for next year when the Final Four will be in Texas.

This wasn't my quote.

[78crusader]

78Crusader - yep, I saw this on Fox and Friends this morning as they were trying to defend Pence and the far right supporters. The best thing Indiana can do is completely bag this law and work on more important things.

I didn't watch Fox this morning but similar alarm bells have sounded recently from many sources, including many Democratic members of Congress, Amir Hossein Motaghi, an Iranian who covered the talks for his country and is now seeking asylum (and who has said that the "US negotiating team is mainly there to speak on Iran's behalf with other members of the 5+1 countries and convince them of a deal,"), and Lt. General Michael Flynn, former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency under President Obama, who recently said this Administration is displaying "willful ignorance" regarding Iran.

None of this is making the mainstream media.  It should.

Paul

[FWalum]

No business will be lost, the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it even happen.  This only probably hurts Pence as he will now most likely never be able to run for President. 

http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2015/03/28/angies-list-canceling-eastside-expansion-rfra/70590738/

The continuing blowback over Indiana's new "religious freedom" law hit home Saturday, with Indianapolis-based Angie's List announcing it is canceling a $40 million headquarters expansion.

The decision is a direct result of passage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, co-founder and chief executive officer Bill Oesterle said Saturday.

The proposed expansion of the online consumer ratings service was touted to add 1,000 good-paying jobs over five years and help revitalize a struggling Eastside neighborhood.

This could be a sign of other things to come," warned Zach Adamson, the Democrat councilman who represents the neighborhood where the $40 million expansion was planned.

"It has only been two days since the bill was signed and we're already hearing of other things. This is not good."

1,000 paying jobs lost in Indy. Listen to the video in which the CEO of Angie's List explains their reasoning for cancelling their expansion project. If that is not business lost, what is?

Maybe Angie's List ought to worry about more important things like their stock price and shareholders,.  To make a HUGE decision like this based on a knee jerk reaction to a law that WILL be amended or repealed is completely stupid and makes me wonder about the intellect of their management team.  Stock is down about 5% since they made their "moral" stand and now sits at $5.66 which is down over 50% in the last year.  I agree, they are in no position to make a 40 million dollar investment in Indy.  They probably were looking for some good PR and it appears to have backfired.

[a3uge]

[tweet]583384656466317312[/tweet]

So these guys are for ending Valpos study abroad center in China, right?

[wh]

[tweet]583384656466317312[/tweet]

So these guys are for ending Valpos study abroad center in China, right?

And, students from Muslim countries won't be returning home to their wonderful lands of tolerance and equality for all, I take it?

Take that crap and peddle it somewhere else.

[wh]

Overwhelming discussion about the Indiana RFRA yet very little media coverage of the Iran nuclear talks and whether President Obama is placing his personal hunger for a legacy ahead of his most solemn duty – protecting America's national security.

Paul

You could not be more accurate.  While everyone's focused on this petty nonsense, the President of the United State of America is paving the way for Iran and their fanatical mullahs to establish a multi-nation caliphate with nuclear weapons, act on their "destiny" to destroy the nation of Israel, and usher in Armageddon.  He either has no idea what he's doing - or, he knows exactly what he's doing.  Either way, he has clearly become the most dangerous person on the planet. 

[valpotx]

the NCAA will not move and in a year no average person will remember it

For some, I think Indiana is just a warm-up for next year when the Final Four will be in Texas.

Good luck in trying to get Texas to cancel our Religious Freedom Law.  Ours isn't in the same category as some of the things left out of the Indiana law, but you won't get our legislators to cater to the 2% movement, when the law is not designed to be against gay people.  Again, I'm not even 'religious,' and I don't want it overturned.  The only way such things will happen in TX, is if a liberal-leaning Federal court (I believe ours is in Louisiana) forces it on us.