Horizon League considering Detroit as tourney location?

[oklahomamick]

I understand HailVU, but building the HL comes at the opportunity cost of Valpo basketball.  You even said it, we lose a huge recruiting advantage.  We cannot host recruits in front of a packed crowd on ESPN.  What about the Chicago kids we depend so much on?  Do we lose them?  Currently we tell them that there's a good chance your mum, pa, and grand dad can come watch you earn a ticket to the NCAA tournament just a hour drive from your home.  Now they have to go to Detroit....Hope we don't lose our Chicago kids and recruiting advantage just so the HL can brand itself better. 

[IndyValpo]

http://m.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/motor-city-madness----a-coach-s-take/article_4abac516-f520-11e4-8be6-2fccd14f8c11.html?mobile_touch=true

I am surprised this hasn't shown up here before, perhaps I missed it.  The new tourney site gave Paul Oren the chance to interview his man crush Kampe about the plan.  Apparently with a straight face he said the following: 

On perceived home-court advantage for Detroit and Oakland -- "I don't see it as an advantage to Oakland or Detroit at all."

Well if he says so.......

[valporun]

It has been awhile since I've commented on anything here, but while Detroit doesn't sound appealing at all, I do like the neutral site location for the entire tournament. I like it for a major reason of you have all the games in one location, house all 10 teams, cheerleaders, bands, and fans in one hotel, and make a good event of fan fellowship at the arena and hotel, as fans from all schools can purchase all session passes for a weekend of basketball, instead of paying 4 individual price points for games. I know in the two years the Mid-Con was in Kansas City, the hotel was the host for all of the teams, cheerleaders, and bands, plus the fans stayed in the same hotel. The hotel made a great chunk of money at the bar too because fans stayed there to eat or drink with other fans. Having this tourrnament in Detroit will help their economy because fans will stay in the hotels, eat in some of their restaurants, purchase beer/alcohol at local grocery stores or liquor stores/gas stations. It also, as HailVU said, is logistically easier to work with because the HL doesn't have to move everything overnight from say Green Bay to Dayton for banners, people, technology, tv, ESPN because it's all in one location for a weekend.  For those complaining about losing the Saturday game to Red Wings hockey, the tournament is planned early enough now to help Joe Louis Arena plan for hockey being on the road for a week, depending on what the tournament dates will be each year, giving time for setup of the basketball court and banners, games played, then time to tear down the banners and remove the court to setup the ice again. Too many of you forget that arenas host numerous events a year, not just basketball or hockey during the winter, so they know how to make the logistics for this work. They now have enough time to work with the Red Wings and the NHL for what dates the HL tournament will need Joe Louis Arena so the Red Wings are on the road at that point.

Reading most of this thread, I felt like Chicken Little was screaming the sky was falling...

[valpopal]

Having this tourrnament in Detroit will help their economy because fans will stay in the hotels, eat in some of their restaurants, purchase beer/alcohol at local grocery stores or liquor stores/gas stations.

I don't understand why this aspect is offered as a positive for Valpo fans to support. Why should we be concerned about helping the Detroit economy at the cost of losing possible income to businesses and members in the Valparaiso community, including some who I know also are season ticket holders or financial supporters of the university and athletics program? Valpo administrators will tell you the tournament at Valparaiso was one of those desired opportunities for university-community cooperation with benefits to both.

[VULB#62]

Now, if only Valpo had a 6-7,000 seat arena, the HL would have a complex of good sized arenas (OU and UDM would be required to rent such a facility, of course - YSU ?  Ugh, not in the next decade) where the WHOLE HL tournament could be played at the home venue of the regular season winner.  It would be a Thursday through Sunday affair with the double bye (?) retained (or maybe not).  It would:

Reward the season champ,
Fill mid sized arenas and create quite an atmosphere
Congregate all teams at the same venue,
Bring a sizable cash influx to the local economy
Put great pressure on HL teams to upgrade their programs in pursuit of hosting the tournament
Allow a 'natural' rotation of venues to help all (eh, maybe some) programs and locations

I'm pretty much being a little facetious, but .... If only   

[oklahomamick]

Here are two questions I would like to get everyone's feelings on.

1.  If Mercy or Oakland try to play a regular season game at the Joe Louis Arena should the HL forbid them? 

2.  Would must of us be as upset  about the neutral location if Chicago hosted? 

3.  If the 20K per team is supposed to help offset travel costs, should UDM and OU get a full share?

[webbvufan]

Here are two questions I would like to get everyone's feelings on.

1.  If Mercy or Oakland try to play a regular season game at the Joe Louis Arena should the HL forbid them? 

2.  Would must of us be as upset  about the neutral location if Chicago hosted? 

1. If the HL wants to maintain the pretext of Joe Louis Arena being a neutral site, then they should not allow UDM or OU to use the arena as a home court during the regular season.

2. No, I would not be as upset, but only for purely selfish reasons.  I would certainly understand if other schools or their fans complained that the site was not neutral.  I would also prefer the current (I mean former) format over a Chicago tournament because of the great atmosphere that our tournament creates every year.  I hope that I'm wrong, but I fear that the HL will never create that electricity at a neutral site, regardless of the location.

There may be one other question to ask:  If the 20K per team is supposed to help offset travel costs, should UDM and OU get a full share?

[talksalot]

OK let's compare access....

ARC TO JOE LOUIS  (AMTRAK from Chicago $35, 3 trains per day~~ $34 from Michigan City, 2 trains/day)
via I-94 W
250 miles
3 h 34 min without traffic


ARC TO THE ARCH    (Amtrak from Chicago $27... 6 trains per day)
via I-55 N   
317 miles
4 h 38 min without traffic

[vu72]

OK let's compare access....

ARC TO JOE LOUIS  (AMTRAK from Chicago $35, 3 trains per day~~ $34 from Michigan City, 2 trains/day)
via I-94 W
250 miles
3 h 34 min without traffic



ARC TO THE ARCH    (Amtrak from Chicago $27... 6 trains per day)
via I-55 N   
317 miles
4 h 38 min without traffic

Is your point that Amtrak needs to review their pricing?  Seriously, the issue isn't location as much as it is whether or not it is truly a neutral site.

[a3uge]

OK let's compare access....

ARC TO JOE LOUIS  (AMTRAK from Chicago $35, 3 trains per day~~ $34 from Michigan City, 2 trains/day)
via I-94 W
250 miles
3 h 34 min without traffic


ARC TO THE ARCH    (Amtrak from Chicago $27... 6 trains per day)
via I-55 N   
317 miles
4 h 38 min without traffic

What does Amtrak have to do with anything? The team isn't going to use it, and 99% of the fans aren't going to use it either.

[valpospartan]

Here are two questions I would like to get everyone's feelings on.

1.  If Mercy or Oakland try to play a regular season game at the Joe Louis Arena should the HL forbid them?  If a tree falls in a forest does anyone hear it?  What you all have to realize is that NO ONE in the Detroit Metro area gives a rat's butt about Oakland nor UDM basketball. It's no big deal. 

2.  Would must of us be as upset  about the neutral location if Chicago hosted? 

3.  If the 20K per team is supposed to help offset travel costs, should UDM and OU get a full share?

[oklahomamick]

If a tree falls in a forest does anyone hear it?  What you all have to realize is that NO ONE in the Detroit Metro area gives a rat's butt about Oakland nor UDM basketball. It's no big deal. 

That's fine, they don't care.  However, does Oakland or Mercy (the teams, not city of Detroit) receive an advantage by playing an out of conference game there?

I also think they receive a financial advantage, $20,0000.  OU can splurge a little on their international trip this summer.  They also receive an advantage because it's in detroit.  Not the fans but the players.  My experience playing division I sports and then coaching at division I, is that home teams are at an advantage.  No bus trip, no hotel. 

[FWalum]

No bus trip, no hotel.

Would have to agree that No bus trip, No hotel = Advantage

[vusupporter]

I would be willing to bet that Oakland, being a 40-minute drive away, would stay in a hotel closer to JLA for the tournament.

[historyman]

I would be willing to bet that Oakland, being a 40-minute drive away, would stay in a hotel closer to JLA for the tournament.

I agree. It's what Butler did when they played in the Final Four in Indianapolis in 2010.

[IndyValpo]

Last year I can think of two examples on this type of "neutral" site tourney.  The OVC in Nashville and CUSA in Birmingham.  in both cases, the local team (not the #1 seed) won. 

[talksalot]

What does Amtrak have to do with anything? The team isn't going to use it, and 99% of the fans aren't going to use it either.

I guess for the first time in my life I'm in the "1%"... Love that amtrak route to Michigan...(and the one to St. Louis)... cheaper than driving, AND you can get up and get a beer... and it's fully WiFi...  and it's a 4 mile cab ride down to Cobo...

This could be a real party train !   

[bbtds]

What does Amtrak have to do with anything? The team isn't going to use it, and 99% of the fans aren't going to use it either.

I guess for the first time in my life I'm in the "1%"... Love that amtrak route to Michigan...(and the one to St. Louis)... cheaper than driving, AND you can get up and get a beer... and it's fully WiFi...  and it's a 4 mile cab ride down to Cobo...

This could be a real party train !   

The Wolverine Train arrives twice a day on Friday, March 4, 2016. 7:13 p.m. EST and 12:18 a.m. (just after midnight) EST at the downtown Detroit Amtrak Station. You can catch it in Michigan City or Whiting (Hammond).

http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak

http://tinyurl.com/mk9cgxv (Michigan City station)

http://tinyurl.com/kzm4c2w (Detroit Amtrak station)

http://tinyurl.com/ojfr92e (Detroit Amtrak to Joe Louis Arena)

http://tinyurl.com/kxvttan (Whiting/Hammond Amtrak station)


7:13 p.m. would be running it too close or too late but if you find a place to stay you can't beat the price of $34 each way.

Just a little caution. Nothing says "tourist" like getting off the train a little tipsy in downtown Detroit just after midnight. 

[talksalot]

there is a 3rd Wolverine that stops in New Buffalo (not Michigan City)...   9:30am to 2:00pm into Detroit...it stops across the street from the Stray Dog... also very handy.

[bbtds]

there is a 3rd Wolverine that stops in New Buffalo (not Michigan City)...   9:30am to 2:00pm into Detroit...it stops across the street from the Stray Dog... also very handy.

Ok, the 350 Wolverine stops in New Buffalo--9:37 a.m. EST and Detroit 2:04 p.m. EST (not Whiting or Mich City). There must be a fee to Amtrak that Indiana doesn't want to pay to make the extra stops on this earlier train. That's weird because the Mich City station and New Buffalo station are only 11 minutes apart by train and only 10 miles apart by car.

http://tinyurl.com/kx3wju6
New Buffalo Amtrak Station--no building just a platform.
(turn the view around to see the Stray Dog--very quaint--it's the more whiteish building on the right past the colored B&B's)

http://tinyurl.com/ltj877j
Michigan City Amtrak station--only a platform too--I thought there was a building in Mich City at one time. I could be mistaken.
Is that the infamous Indiana State Prison, including death row, just behind the railroad tracks? The one Dillinger escaped from?

[FWalum]

Michigan City Amtrak station--only a platform too--I thought there was a building in Mich City at one time. I could be mistaken.

Well at least your "station" is located in a city.  Amtrak made a very "smart" move in 1990 to abandon rail service in Fort Wayne because of track maintenance and moved the line so that our closest stop is about 25-30 miles north in Waterloo, IN.  Would love to see service restored from here to Chicago.

[motowntitan]

Now, if only Valpo had a 6-7,000 seat arena, the HL would have a complex of good sized arenas (OU and UDM would be required to rent such a facility, of course - YSU ?  Ugh, not in the next decade) where the WHOLE HL tournament could be played at the home venue of the regular season winner.  It would be a Thursday through Sunday affair with the double bye (?) retained (or maybe not).

Why would Detroit have to rent a facility as small as 6-7,000 seats?

[VULB#62]

Now, if only Valpo had a 6-7,000 seat arena, the HL would have a complex of good sized arenas (OU and UDM would be required to rent such a facility, of course - YSU ?  Ugh, not in the next decade) where the WHOLE HL tournament could be played at the home venue of the regular season winner.  It would be a Thursday through Sunday affair with the double bye (?) retained (or maybe not).

Why would Detroit have to rent a facility as small as 6-7,000 seats?

My original response, Titian,  was "to fill it and create a really insane atmosphere instead of having echos bouncing off 10K empty seats."  However, your question prompted me to review the capacities of current (and new ) HL Teams:

CSU - 13,600
UWM - 12,700 10,783
WSU - 10,449
UWGB - 10,000
NKU - 9,400
UDM - 8,295
UIC - 8,000
YSU - 6,300
Valpo - 5,000
OU - 4,000

Clearly, it's Valpo, OU and YSU who need to up their capacity.  I've been to Rensch and the Panther Arena and feel they would be great venues for a HL Tourney.  Obviously anything in the 8K-10K range would play to packed houses. Larger arenas might not sell out, but who would notice? But 18K is a lot of seats to fill.

So I revise my "if only" for this make-believe scenario and say:

Now, if only Valpo had an 8,000 seat arena, the HL would have a complex of good sized arenas (OU would be required to rent such a facility, of course - YSU ?  Ugh, not in the next decade) where the WHOLE HL tournament could be played at the home venue of the regular season winner.

[dylanrocks]

Love the board and agree with the vast majority on here about the relocation of the H League tournament. The time has come for LeCrone to step aside, but first we need most of our university administrators to stop agreeing with him.

Anyway, the seating capacity for men's basketball games at UWM Panther Arena is 10,783 and we've averaged around 10,250 for five title games, so I would agree that the size of the facility is perfect for the tournament.

Thanks for letting me weigh in. Please continue.

[valpopal]

Mark LaBarbera has posted an end-of-year "thank you" message to the residents of Valparaiso and Northwest Indiana. I like this note and applaud ML. I hope it sets a precedent for more frequent direct messages to the surrounding community on a regular basis to help engender support and increase the local fan base.  Additionally, in light of the discussion on this thread, I found the following section of Mark's letter rather interesting, especially since I know a number of community members feel their long-time support has been ignored or betrayed by the Horizon League, and reassurance to them by Valpo is necessary. Mark's message indirectly further emphasizes part of the reasoning for Valpo's opposition to the league's decision to make Detroit a permanent location for the men's basketball tournament: "In the past year we have earned Horizon League championships in women's soccer and men's basketball. Both titles were won in tournaments contested right here in Valparaiso. Our student-athletes were greatly encouraged by the significant number of local fans who attended the events and cheered them to victory. During several live ESPN broadcasts we showed multiple national television audiences the quality and passion of basketball fans in Northwest Indiana."


http://www.valpoathletics.com/news/articles/2014-15/14706/athletics-director-thanks-northwest-indiana/#.VVpFvlVViko