Horizon League considering Detroit as tourney location?

[a3uge]

They should have named this year's tourney the "La

Crone Memorial".  Could both items (Location and LaC) be gone after this year?

Contractually obligated to Detroit for 5 years. Woof.

[webbvufan]

Olympia said there would be "growing pains" and there is "lots of work to do" -- see above advance ticket sales numbers. They are hoping for an OU-Detroit final.   

Nice to see that the folks who are putting on the "Neutral Site" HL Tournament are remaining neutral. 

[StlVUFan]

Sounds like UDM could play a last game at JLA next season, prior to the tournament. There are also discussions underway that could lead to the Titans playing an inaugural hoops event at the new arena in 2017.

That'd be next season not this season.  Joe Louis is shutting down in 2017, I believe.  Tournament will be there this year and next year.

[valpospartan]

Big surprise that so few tickets have been sold so far-maybe because it's JANUARY!
Not many fans are thinking about the tourney, let alone buying tickets .  This might end up to be a colossal FAIL.

[talksalot]

Welllll...putting myself in the mind of someone who might actually care...

the bottom 5/6 teams realize they will be probably be out after a game or two... so why buy a full package?
the top 4/5 teams are all still hoping for the double-bye... so why buy a full package?

Oh, wait... OAK and UDM,  draw sooooo well, that they have ____ number of folks + the UofM and MSU fans that didn't get B1G tournament tickets, who will go to JLA to watch the games for the sheer glory of the sport.

[a3uge]

Welllll...putting myself in the mind of someone who might actually care...

the bottom 5/6 teams realize they will be probably be out after a game or two... so why buy a full package?
the top 4/5 teams are all still hoping for the double-bye... so why buy a full package?

Oh, wait... OAK and UDM,  draw sooooo well, that they have ____ number of folks + the UofM and MSU fans that didn't get B1G tournament tickets, who will go to JLA to watch the games for the sheer glory of the sport.

I've been to 1 game of the conference tournament every year since Valpo joined the Horizon, and this will be the first year I don't go to any games. I can't take off 3 days of work - the Monday to get up there, the Tuesday of the championship game, and the Wednesday to drive back (assuming the fog is equally as bad after the game as last year). Switching to a neutral location and having the semis and finals on a Monday and Tuesday is idiotic. I get ESPN probably had those dates locked in, but it's a real problem for the majority of out of town fans.

[VULB#62]

They should have named this year's tourney the "La

Crone Memorial".  Could both items (Location and LaC) be gone after this year?

Contractually obligated to Detroit for 5 years. Woof.

I wonder if there is an "out" clause for either or both sides if after, say, 2 years the draw does not meet certain levels?  That certainly is not going be publicized by either the HL or Olympia, but it would be foolish to continue a money loser ( if that happens) -- then it would be cut bait time. I would assume  that the smart people on both sides thought of that and wrote it into the contract.

[agibson]

I wonder if there is an "out" clause for either or both sides if after, say, 2 years the draw does not meet certain levels?  That certainly is not going be publicized by either the HL or Olympia, but it would be foolish to continue a money loser ( if that happens) -- then it would be cut bait time. I would assume   that the smart people on both sides thought of that and wrote it into the contract.

I assume that most multi-year contracts these days have an "out clause" of some sort.  For sports employment contracts, they're normal, and may just involve a significant financial penalty, right?

Worst case, I guess, you break the contract, let them sue you, and let the courts decide what's it worth.  I'd hope the Horizon League doesn't have to resort to that, but... Contracts aren't signed in blood.

[Grizz]

Can't be a money loser for the Horizon League. Olympia is paying the league 200,000k, each year. 1 million over 5 years. The tournament lost money last year at Valpo. Maybe this is just about money. Olympia is the one who will lose money, not the league.

[valpo95]

Can't be a money loser for the Horizon League. Olympia is paying the league 200,000k, each year. 1 million over 5 years. The tournament lost money last year at Valpo. Maybe this is just about money. Olympia is the one who will lose money, not the league.

The payment by Olympia to the HL is the key driver behind the move to Detroit. The League saw the chance to reduce its cost and complexity of organizing and promoting a tournament, while increasing the potential revenue. Of course, Olympia also will do everything possible to promote the tournament in hopes of making their money back.

[a3uge]

Can't be a money loser for the Horizon League. Olympia is paying the league 200,000k, each year. 1 million over 5 years. The tournament lost money last year at Valpo. Maybe this is just about money. Olympia is the one who will lose money, not the league.

If the Horizon sends a 15-seeded Detroit area team instead of Valpo at a 11-12 seed, they're pretty much guaranteeing they won't see the (at least) additional $1.7 million over 6 years from a round of 64 win. Last year the OVC screwed up their chance to make millions by having the tournament in Nashville. Belmont won over ranked Murray State, and got a 15 seed, eventually losing to #2 seed Virginia. 15 seeds have a 6% success rate vs 32% for 12 seeds. Sorry, but making it easier for a 100+RPI team to make the tournament is bad for the league. Home teams win ~67% of the time (Valpo has a 82% conference record at home in the past 5 years), and there's clearly an advantage for teams that do not have to travel at all.

Once the money from the tournament wins dried up, the Horizon had to take the guaranteed check. You can blame Valpo and Green Bay for that, but the fact is the Horizon missed out on an at-large in UWGB and a solid 12 seed twice for Valpo because of RPI killers at the bottom of the league, and teams like Oakland that finished below .500 because of crazy over-scheduling.

[vu72]

Can't be a money loser for the Horizon League. Olympia is paying the league 200,000k, each year. 1 million over 5 years. The tournament lost money last year at Valpo. Maybe this is just about money. Olympia is the one who will lose money, not the league.

If the Horizon sends a 15-seeded Detroit area team instead of Valpo at a 11-12 seed, they're pretty much guaranteeing they won't see the (at least) additional $1.7 million over 6 years from a round of 64 win. Last year the OVC screwed up their chance to make millions by having the tournament in Nashville. Belmont won over ranked Murray State, and got a 15 seed, eventually losing to #2 seed Virginia. 15 seeds have a 6% success rate vs 32% for 12 seeds. Sorry, but making it easier for a 100+RPI team to make the tournament is bad for the league. Home teams win ~67% of the time (Valpo has a 82% conference record at home in the past 5 years), and there's clearly an advantage for teams that do not have to travel at all.

Once the money from the tournament wins dried up, the Horizon had to take the guaranteed check. You can blame Valpo and Green Bay for that, but the fact is the Horizon missed out on an at-large in UWGB and a solid 12 seed twice for Valpo because of RPI killers at the bottom of the league, and teams like Oakland that finished below .500 because of crazy over-scheduling.

Exactly.  But, Oakland made out just fine because of all the big payday games. The League(everyone except Oakland) took it in the shorts.

[valpospartan]

Welllll...putting myself in the mind of someone who might actually care...

the bottom 5/6 teams realize they will be probably be out after a game or two... so why buy a full package?
the top 4/5 teams are all still hoping for the double-bye... so why buy a full package?

Oh, wait... OAK and UDM,  draw sooooo well, that they have ____ number of folks + the UofM and MSU fans that didn't get B1G tournament tickets, who will go to JLA to watch the games for the sheer glory of the sport.

Good luck to them to expect UM & MSU fans to attend.

[wh]

Thoughts from the HL commercial (played during game broadcasts) featuring 5 or 6 coaches promoting the tournament in Detroit.

•The NKU coach promotes the "experience" for the fans. My question has always been - what fans?  Most HL teams play home games in large, mostly empty barns. Empty seats stand out on TV like a sore thumb. Student cheering sections are practically nonexistent.  How many fans are UIC, CSU, YSU and NKU going to bring to watch "exciting" HL bb in Detroit MI with the semis and finals on work/school days?  50 - maybe?  How many GB fans are going to make that long trip around the lake?  Another 50?  How many Valpo, WSU or Milw fans will be there?  When we hosted WSU in the 2013 championship game, I seriously doubt they had more than a hundred fans there. How many are they going to have in Detroit? 

•Some of the coaches mention that this is what all the major conferences do, as if all we have to do is hold the tournament in a "neutral" location to gain that level of respect. Unfortunately, this is typical of people in positions of authority who are in over their heads - always looking for quick, easy solutions and shortcuts to complicated issues.

[StlVUFan]

Thoughts from the HL commercial (played during game broadcasts) featuring 5 or 6 coaches promoting the tournament in Detroit.

•The NKU coach promotes the "experience" for the fans. My question has always been - what fans?  Most HL teams play home games in large, mostly empty barns. Empty seats stand out on TV like a sore thumb. Student cheering sections are practically nonexistent.  How many fans are UIC, CSU, YSU and NKU going to bring to watch "exciting" HL bb in Detroit MI with the semis and finals on work/school days?  50 - maybe?  How many GB fans are going to make that long trip around the lake?  Another 50?  How many Valpo, WSU or Milw fans will be there?  When we hosted WSU in the 2013 championship game, I seriously doubt they had more than a hundred fans there. How many are they going to have in Detroit? 

•Some of the coaches mention that this is what all the major conferences do, as if all we have to do is hold the tournament in a "neutral" location to gain that level of respect. Unfortunately, this is typical of people in positions of authority who are in over their heads - always looking for quick, easy solutions and shortcuts to complicated issues.

1.  As a fan, I would say, "ME!!!"  As for how many, my response would be "I don't care".  As a fan, I absolutely love it.

2.  On this point, you are spot on.  I mentioned this before.  If this was the only reason why they did it, then I would have no problem with shouting them down.  As indicated in (1), however, that's not the only reason.

[HC]

I would probably make the drive just for the title game, no chance of going to all the games so they're missing out on my money. Also, I'd be much more inclined to drive to an opponents gym who was hosting and was Valpo's opponent knowing the place was going to be packed with (soon to be) disappointed fans then I am to drive 4 hours both ways to watch a game where you can probably hear every snarky comment made from know it all bleacher coaches/refs. Rather watch it on tv.


I might be proved wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to be a disaster.

[Valpower]

I would probably make the drive just for the title game, no chance of going to all the games so they're missing out on my money. Also, I'd be much more inclined to drive to an opponents gym who was hosting and was Valpo's opponent knowing the place was going to be packed with (soon to be) disappointed fans then I am to drive 4 hours both ways to watch a game where you can probably hear every snarky comment made from know it all bleacher coaches/refs. Rather watch it on tv.


I might be proved wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to be a disaster.

It will be a disaster for most fans, but probably not for the Oakland-University dealmakers who are behind all this--George Hynd,  Horizon's board chairman and president of Oakland University, Jeff Konya, Chair of Horizon's Executive Council and Director of Athletics at Oakland, Grosse Pointe's Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner, and King Kampe himself.  They've probably all gotten their reward for making it happen, perhaps some of it coming from Oakland's years of playing guarantee games.  Of course the ultimate payoff of Oakland ruling the Horizon has yet to materialize and there are never any guarantees of that, but all the advantages have been put in place.

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Articles-Community-i-2016-01-21-259536.114135-Horizon-League-championship-comes-to-the-D.html

[historyman]

IMO, in 4 years, these two schools will be dominating HL MBB and, with the HL tourney in Detroit annually, it will be self-perpetuating.

I'm sorry, VULB#62, I just can't believe this will happen. You are discounting the Valpo coaching staff and the way they recruit to say that Detroit and Oakland will dominate the HL in 4 years with no murmur even from Valpo. You remember who said they would dominate the Mid-Con? Look what happened.

[VULB#62]

Whoa, that was a month ago. At that point OU and Detroit hadn't lost an HL game yet. But my comment was not to denigrate our program. It was to emphasize that the deck was being stacked against us and it kinda smelled (to me at least) that it was by design. And, yes, I checked in with Oliver Stone to see if my intuition was properly directed.   

I know the HL wanted a big city for the splash, but to be fair geographically, Ft. Wayne would have been a truly neutral site and kind of equally accessible by everyone. And I think they have a pretty decent arena, don't they?

In today's electronic world a packed FW arena on ESPN looks just as cool as any other place. And certainly better than a ⅓ full JLA.

[oklahomamick]

I would probably make the drive just for the title game, no chance of going to all the games so they're missing out on my money. Also, I'd be much more inclined to drive to an opponents gym who was hosting and was Valpo's opponent knowing the place was going to be packed with (soon to be) disappointed fans then I am to drive 4 hours both ways to watch a game where you can probably hear every snarky comment made from know it all bleacher coaches/refs. Rather watch it on tv. I might be proved wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to be a disaster.

It will be a disaster for most fans, but probably not for the Oakland-University dealmakers who are behind all this--George Hynd,  Horizon's board chairman and president of Oakland University, Jeff Konya, Chair of Horizon's Executive Council and Director of Athletics at Oakland, Grosse Pointe's Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner, and King Kampe himself.  They've probably all gotten their reward for making it happen, perhaps some of it coming from Oakland's years of playing guarantee games.  Of course the ultimate payoff of Oakland ruling the Horizon has yet to materialize and there are never any guarantees of that, but all the advantages have been put in place. http://www.grossepointenews.com/Articles-Community-i-2016-01-21-259536.114135-Horizon-League-championship-comes-to-the-D.html

How did all these new kids on the block get to be on the board?  Shouldn't they gain some experience or buy some time? 

[StlVUFan]

I know the HL wanted a big city for the splash, but to be fair geographically, Ft. Wayne would have been a truly neutral site and kind of equally accessible by everyone. And I think they have a pretty decent arena, don't they?

I think that would have been better as well, but it's never going to happen.  It has to be in a conference city or you're never going to see the place anywhere close to packed for any of the games.  Mind you, that's not me talking, that's everyone who matters talking.  I actually think it's possible at a place like Fort Wayne to fill the place, but you have to admit the chances are slim.  We used to play there in March, remember?  3 years, if I'm not mistaken.

Of course, I never cared whether the place was full or not, because I never cared how it looked on TV

[VULB#62]

I would probably make the drive just for the title game, no chance of going to all the games so they're missing out on my money. Also, I'd be much more inclined to drive to an opponents gym who was hosting and was Valpo's opponent knowing the place was going to be packed with (soon to be) disappointed fans then I am to drive 4 hours both ways to watch a game where you can probably hear every snarky comment made from know it all bleacher coaches/refs. Rather watch it on tv.


I might be proved wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to be a disaster.

It will be a disaster for most fans, but probably not for the Oakland-University dealmakers who are behind all this--George Hynd,  Horizon's board chairman and president of Oakland University, Jeff Konya, Chair of Horizon's Executive Council and Director of Athletics at Oakland, Grosse Pointe's Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner, and King Kampe himself.  They've probably all gotten their reward for making it happen, perhaps some of it coming from Oakland's years of playing guarantee games.  Of course the ultimate payoff of Oakland ruling the Horizon has yet to materialize and there are never any guarantees of that, but all the advantages have been put in place.

http://www.grossepointenews.com/Articles-Community-i-2016-01-21-259536.114135-Horizon-League-championship-comes-to-the-D.html

This is exactly what Olliver Stone told me when he said my reply to H-man was spot on.  At least I think it was Ollie - I hear so many voices these days it's sometimes difficult to sort them out

[VULB#62]

Seriously, after reading that article, my advice to my alma mater can best be stated by Monte Python:  "Run away, run away!"  What a hose job. How can one school, a new one at that, consolidate so much power in so short a time?

[bbtds]

I would probably make the drive just for the title game, no chance of going to all the games so they're missing out on my money. Also, I'd be much more inclined to drive to an opponents gym who was hosting and was Valpo's opponent knowing the place was going to be packed with (soon to be) disappointed fans then I am to drive 4 hours both ways to watch a game where you can probably hear every snarky comment made from know it all bleacher coaches/refs. Rather watch it on tv. I might be proved wrong, but I have a feeling this is going to be a disaster.

It will be a disaster for most fans, but probably not for the Oakland-University dealmakers who are behind all this--George Hynd,  Horizon's board chairman and president of Oakland University, Jeff Konya, Chair of Horizon's Executive Council and Director of Athletics at Oakland, Grosse Pointe's Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner, and King Kampe himself.  They've probably all gotten their reward for making it happen, perhaps some of it coming from Oakland's years of playing guarantee games.  Of course the ultimate payoff of Oakland ruling the Horizon has yet to materialize and there are never any guarantees of that, but all the advantages have been put in place. http://www.grossepointenews.com/Articles-Community-i-2016-01-21-259536.114135-Horizon-League-championship-comes-to-the-D.html

How did all these new kids on the block get to be on the board?  Shouldn't they gain some experience or buy some time? 

FYI, Valpower goes back on Valpo message boards much longer than you and most posters on this board and previous boards.

[valpotx]

What a freaking joke.  Why not 2016, she said?  Of course, why not, since nobody was going to win home court advantage this season outside of Valpo.  Also, the other HL schools that were not happy with the attention that the HL tournament was receiving, is because it was always Valpo that was receiving the attention.  It happens when you move on from being the Monsters of the Mid-Con to the Hosts of the Horizon League every season .  It won't ever happen, but I still dream of a MVC invite.  STL is a true neutral venue that embraces their tournament.