2015-16 Season

[Kyle321n]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Apparently you don't know how preseason conjecture works. Also was UCF not a large conference program? They are in the same conference as UCONN. We beat them 2 years ago and a large part of this team (Alec, Jubril, Lexus, Keith, Vashil) were part of that team

[a3uge]

Maryland has a top 5 recruit - Diamond Stone. They're much better this year.

[atkins]

Preseason conjecture is tons of fun, and it's all in good spirit of course.  But I really doubt we would outduel UNC, Kentucky or Kansas.  We have to beat the Mizzou's and Nebraskas first...and not just the UCF's. 

[Valpower]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make.

We can predict a victory against a top-25 team any time we want UNTIL we've beaten one.  Then it will no longer be a prediction.  Also, many "large-conference programs are quite miserable so beating one doesn't make a prediction more sound.  The narrow loss to Maryland, like most things by themselves, may not indicate much, but in the context of the team's entire 28-6 season, it pretty much soundly answers the question of whether they are competitors.

[a3uge]

Preseason conjecture is tons of fun, and it's all in good spirit of course.  But I really doubt we would outduel UNC, Kentucky or Kansas.  We have to beat the Mizzou's and Nebraskas first...and not just the UCF's.

Because Mizzou > Murray State because logic.

[vu72]

Maryland has a top 5 recruit - Diamond Stone. They're much better this year.

[/b]

They also lost two starters who played a combined 55 minutes against.  Does Dez Wells ring a bell? 

[Chairback]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

[wh]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

Speaking of whom, comments yeterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

[bbtds]

I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

The real blowhards in power at Butler wouldn't even consider Valpo for the same reason Indiana or Notre Dame won't consider Valpo. They are way too full of themselves these days.

[classof2014]

It's amazing to see how far this team has come over the past few seasons. From making it back to the tournament for the first time in nearly a decade to what can potentially be a national championship contender. 

This team can be by far the best team in school history. Am I saying we are a national championship team? Not by any means. If we do play to our potential we can easily be in the discussion of the best of the best. This is all just preseason wishful thinking but if everything goes as I hope this could easily be a Top 15 team.

[vu72]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

Speaking of whom, comments yeterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

[/b]

Nice of them to remember!  Actually it is a four game win streak. The streak began against a "bad" Butler team in the 2010-2011 season.  That "bad" team played in the NCAA Title game.  The streak continued with three more wins in the 2011-2012 season when a "bad" Butler team went 22-15 and won two games in the CBI post-season tournament.  Then they quit playing us.   

[VULB#62]

Well said 72!

[Valpo18]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

Speaking of whom, comments yeterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

[/b]

Nice of them to remember!  Actually it is a four game win streak. The streak began against a "bad" Butler team in the 2010-2011 season.  That "bad" team played in the NCAA Title game.  The streak continued with three more wins in the 2011-2012 season when a "bad" Butler team went 22-15 and won two games in the CBI post-season tournament.  Then they quit playing us.   

Not to discredit anything that we have done, but that 2011-2012 team was not a good Butler team at all. The early departures of Hayward and Mack to the NBA left them with so little offense. I remember watching their games, all you had to do was put your defense in the paint as no one could shoot on their team. They went 22-15 because they weren't a bad team mid-major team, but they weren't anything like their other teams. Sometimes I read these posts and Paul's tweets and think we thump our chest a little too much about capitalizing on their worst year in a long time (yes even worse than 2013-2014 BE team they had).

[Valpo18]

It's amazing to see how far this team has come over the past few seasons. From making it back to the tournament for the first time in nearly a decade to what can potentially be a national championship contender. 

This team can be by far the best team in school history. Am I saying we are a national championship team? Not by any means. If we do play to our potential we can easily be in the discussion of the best of the best. This is all just preseason wishful thinking but if everything goes as I hope this could easily be a Top 15 team.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. I think these team can compete with most teams in the top 25, but to me there is still a lot more to prove. Playing a close game to high majors isn't enough for me to say we will be a top 15 team. Though I'm hopeful 

[valpotx]

We don't tout the 4 straight wins against Butler because that 2011-2012 was a fantastic Butler team.  We tout the wins because most/many of us despise Butler, and love every win we get against them in any sport!  I saw a car with a Butler license plate holder on my way home from work the other day, got them to roll down their window, and yelled 'Butler sucks, go Valpo' .  I cringe every time I see Pat Neshek (Houston Astros, Butler alum) pitch against the Texas Rangers, just hoping that we drill long-ball after long-ball off of him.  I respect, but despise Butler .

[vu72]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

Speaking of whom, comments yeterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

[/b]

Nice of them to remember!  Actually it is a four game win streak. The streak began against a "bad" Butler team in the 2010-2011 season.  That "bad" team played in the NCAA Title game.  The streak continued with three more wins in the 2011-2012 season when a "bad" Butler team went 22-15 and won two games in the CBI post-season tournament.  Then they quit playing us.   

Not to discredit anything that we have done, but that 2011-2012 team was not a good Butler team at all. The early departures of Hayward and Mack to the NBA left them with so little offense. I remember watching their games, all you had to do was put your defense in the paint as no one could shoot on their team. They went 22-15 because they weren't a bad team mid-major team, but they weren't anything like their other teams. Sometimes I read these posts and Paul's tweets and think we thump our chest a little too much about capitalizing on their worst year in a long time (yes even worse than 2013-2014 BE team they had).

And their other teams that were "anything like their other teams"??  They had Hayward, Howard and Mack plus Ronald Nored.  They probably will never have a team with that much talent.

[a3uge]

Did Butler used to play in our conference?

[vu72]

Did Butler used to play in our conference?

Very funny.  But I'll humor you.  They have briefly been in our conference, specifically for 36 of the last 65 years. In football, just a little longer. 65 of the last 65 years.

[Valpower]

Did Butler used to play in our conference?

Very funny.  But I'll humor you.  They have briefly been in our conference, specifically for 36 of the last 65 years.

Must be a different Butler.  This one (the one we beat) had its fans suggesting they might have been a "bad team".  The other one's fans believed that its excrement did not emit a foul odor.

[wh]

Speaking of whom, comments yesterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

Exactly because we hold a 4-game winning streak against them is why they most likely will not be scheduling us anytime soon.  Why would they risk extending their losing streak to as many as 7 games against what should be loaded Valpo teams for at least the next 3 seasons?  Speaking of which, imagine a 2017-18 team anchored by 7-1 (and still growing) junior center Derrik Smits and 4 highly talented, battle-tested seniors in David Skara, Tevonn Walker, Lexus Williams and Max Joseph (and who knows who else by then). 

[Valpo18]

Um...don't we actually have to win a game against an actual large conference program before we can predict a victory against a top-25 team?  A narrow loss to Maryland does not a competitor make. 

Yeap.  We have more moral victories than anyone.  I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves with all of these predictions and "rankings".  We have yet to beat anyone of substance (other than Butler) since 1999.

Speaking of whom, comments yeterday from the Butler message board:

The Indiana teams will be really good this year.
One team to keep in mind...Valpo. They return like their entire freakin' roster.
EDIT: Evansville should be pretty decent too.

I agree. Valpo is going to have one hell of a team. I read somewhere that they are returning 99% of their scoring. They could easily crack the top 25.
I would love to get some series against them again and shut their fans up about their win streak (mind you the 3 wins came from a bad Butler squad).

[/b]

Nice of them to remember!  Actually it is a four game win streak. The streak began against a "bad" Butler team in the 2010-2011 season.  That "bad" team played in the NCAA Title game.  The streak continued with three more wins in the 2011-2012 season when a "bad" Butler team went 22-15 and won two games in the CBI post-season tournament.  Then they quit playing us.   

Not to discredit anything that we have done, but that 2011-2012 team was not a good Butler team at all. The early departures of Hayward and Mack to the NBA left them with so little offense. I remember watching their games, all you had to do was put your defense in the paint as no one could shoot on their team. They went 22-15 because they weren't a bad team mid-major team, but they weren't anything like their other teams. Sometimes I read these posts and Paul's tweets and think we thump our chest a little too much about capitalizing on their worst year in a long time (yes even worse than 2013-2014 BE team they had).

And their other teams that were "anything like their other teams"??  They had Hayward, Howard and Mack plus Ronald Nored.  They probably will never have a team with that much talent.

I'm not saying that the 2009-2010 is the status quo for Butler's teams because it obviously isn't. You're right, they might not ever have a team that talented again. All I'm saying is that the 2011-2012 team was not the normal quality team that we see from Butler. We capitalized on it, as did other teams.

[IrishDawg]

For some reason I thought this thread was about the 2015-16 season, not the 2011-12 season for Butler.    Looking at the advanced metrics though, the 2011-12 team was the worst Butler team in the last decade.  Valpo had a good team that year and took advantage of it (as good teams should).  It'll be awhile before I could see the two schools scheduling each other, simply because Butler's in the Big East now so they see themselves as a major conference program, yet every other program in the state still sees them as the team from the Horizon League, so the Valpos, Ball States and Evansvilles won't give them a 2 for 1 deal or something similar like they would other schools in their league.  I'm not suggesting one school is right or wrong in their thinking, just that is likely the reality of the situation.  It's the same reason Notre Dame won't schedule a home and home with Butler, but Brey said he wants Notre Dame to open up DePaul's new facility when it's done being built.

Back to next year though...In all honesty, if the two teams played next season I wouldn't be surprised if Valpo won because they have way size than Butler and Alec Peters is an offensive force.  Valpo's defense could also be as good as Butler's was last season (7th nationally in defensive efficiency) considering their length and they bring all that experience back.  However, I do expect both to be good and represent the state (along with IU, ND and Purdue) in the NCAA tournament.  Hopefully this year they don't all get put in the same bracket.

[FWalum]

.

For some reason I thought this thread was about the 2015-16 season, not the 2011-12 season for Butler.    Looking at the advanced metrics though, the 2011-12 team was the worst Butler team in the last decade.  Valpo had a good team that year and took advantage of it (as good teams should).  It'll be awhile before I could see the two schools scheduling each other, simply because Butler's in the Big East now so they see themselves as a major conference program, yet every other program in the state still sees them as the team from the Horizon League

• Perception: It is perceived by the Butler faithful, and the rest of "the basketball nation", that Butler consistently plays at a high major level, they back this perception up every year by beating top 50 level BCS teams.  How we perceive ourselves vs Butler is completely different than what "the basketball nation" sees when comparing Butler and Valpo.
• Expectations: I believe that people and teams tend to gravitate towards the level of expectation.  Butler is now always expected to be a top 50 and higher level team and in many instances they play like it against much larger schools.  With few exceptions this has not been the expectation for Valpo.
• Confidence: Confidence enhances performance and is influenced by perception and expectations.  Butler has 'IT" and Valpo needs "IT'.

I understand why the Butler faithful look down their noses at us, they are not alone, there is no way the casual basketball fan would put Butler and VU on the same level. All of this can turn on this year for Valpo and when it does then we can tell Butler and Notre Dame where to stick it.  There is no doubt in my mind that this years team will be competitive on a national level.  There is no doubt in my mind that this team is better than the current Butler squad.  I expect us to win games against any and all competition. The time of moral victories and close calls is over.  When it happens we need to capitalize on it.

[RedHawk]

I've lived in Indy for 20 years and have become a casual Butler fan during that time. (Heresy around here, I know.)  I went to Miami of Ohio, so I needed someone to root for.  My daughter will be a freshman at VU in 2 weeks, so I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to Valpo until last season when it became clear that Valpo was the right school for her.

Last year, I watched a lot of Valpo games and attended a lot of Butler games.  I agree with others that Valpo would beat Butler this year.  Butler is a good team and has become a consistently nationally relevant team, but right now they don't have the height and depth that Valpo does.

I've learned what you all know and the rest of the country will see soon - this year's Valpo team could be REALLY special.

P.S. From my jaded perspective, many of the issues that Valpo faces are similar to what Miami OH faces.  They are both academic leaders in their conferences, fans would like to have better facilities (ironically, many Miami fans would love an intimate facility like the ARC), nobody wants to play them on their home court, and fans expect the teams to be competitive every year.  But at least Valpo has won lately and is likely to win in the future.

[wh]

I've lived in Indy for 20 years and have become a casual Butler fan during that time. (Heresy around here, I know.)  I went to Miami of Ohio, so I needed someone to root for.  My daughter will be a freshman at VU in 2 weeks, so I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to Valpo until last season when it became clear that Valpo was the right school for her.

Last year, I watched a lot of Valpo games and attended a lot of Butler games.  I agree with others that Valpo would beat Butler this year.  Butler is a good team and has become a consistently nationally relevant team, but right now they don't have the height and depth that Valpo does.

I've learned what you all know and the rest of the country will see soon - this year's Valpo team could be REALLY special.

P.S. From my jaded perspective, many of the issues that Valpo faces are similar to what Miami OH faces.  They are both academic leaders in their conferences, fans would like to have better facilities (ironically, many Miami fans would love an intimate facility like the ARC), nobody wants to play them on their home court, and fans expect the teams to be competitive every year.  But at least Valpo has won lately and is likely to win in the future.

Very interesting.  Glad to have you join the conversation.