Stetson 10/24

vu72 · October 26, 2015, 08:09:02 PM

Quote from: Vinny on October 26, 2015, 06:34:22 PM
Yep. I think the school needs to give the football program a long and thorough examination. It's one thing to have a bad few seasons, but outside of a handful of years, Valpo football has been a failure for the better part of three decades. According to the school's archives, the team even has a losing record all time AT HOME. How does that happen?

I'm not sure I buy the argument that football is a $$ maker for the school when you consider coaching salaries, equipment, recruiting, travel and everything else. And in the end what is the return on investment? A whole lot of losses. I have to think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Maybe the new field house?

Wow! Kind of harsh. For the record, we have won two PFL championships since 2015. It was only a few months ago that we thought the new coach walked on water and now?? The facts are that we are starting two-thirds freshman and sophomores, somewhat hampered by mono and the flu. The seniors left have had season ending injuries and we are playing our third string quarterback, with one of the former starters out for the season with a head injury.

Coach C has had one full year of recruiting. He has more athletes from Florida then any state accept Illinois. It took Tom Horne years before he brought home two titles in four years. If, in two more years, we still are losing more than winning, then I will agree that the sport need reevaluation. Not until then. Even in failure we are adding outstanding students, not just males studying basket weaving. 25% are engineers and 25% are in the Business School.

usc4valpo · October 26, 2015, 08:43:04 PM

OK, 25% are in engineering

VU2624 · October 27, 2015, 08:34:38 AM

Quote from: vu72 on October 26, 2015, 02:33:00 PM
Quote from: VU2624 on October 26, 2015, 11:51:00 AM
Is it really any worse than the 1200 at San Diego or 2000 at Drake? It's a function of the level and interest. Interest is earned.

3183 for the San Diego game.

My reference was not to the attendance at Valpo for the SD game. It was the attendance at SD and Drake last Saturday for their home games.

VU2624 · October 27, 2015, 08:38:00 AM

Quote from: Vinny on October 26, 2015, 06:34:22 PM
Yep. I think the school needs to give the football program a long and thorough examination. It's one thing to have a bad few seasons, but outside of a handful of years, Valpo football has been a failure for the better part of three decades. According to the school's archives, the team even has a losing record all time AT HOME. How does that happen?

I'm not sure I buy the argument that football is a $$ maker for the school when you consider coaching salaries, equipment, recruiting, travel and everything else. And in the end what is the return on investment? A whole lot of losses. I have to think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Maybe the new field house?

It appears your sole purpose here is to declare which sports should be cut.

VU2624 · October 27, 2015, 08:42:32 AM

Quote from: vu72 on October 26, 2015, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: Vinny on October 26, 2015, 06:34:22 PM
Yep. I think the school needs to give the football program a long and thorough examination. It's one thing to have a bad few seasons, but outside of a handful of years, Valpo football has been a failure for the better part of three decades. According to the school's archives, the team even has a losing record all time AT HOME. How does that happen?

I'm not sure I buy the argument that football is a $$ maker for the school when you consider coaching salaries, equipment, recruiting, travel and everything else. And in the end what is the return on investment? A whole lot of losses. I have to think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Maybe the new field house?

Wow! Kind of harsh. For the record, we have won two PFL championships since 2015. It was only a few months ago that we thought the new coach walked on water and now?? The facts are that we are starting two-thirds freshman and sophomores, somewhat hampered by mono and the flu. The seniors left have had season ending injuries and we are playing our third string quarterback, with one of the former starters out for the season with a head injury.

Coach C has had one full year of recruiting. He has more athletes from Florida then any state accept Illinois. It took Tom Horne years before he brought home two titles in four years. If, in two more years, we still are losing more than winning, then I will agree that the sport need reevaluation. Not until then. Even in failure we are adding outstanding students, not just males studying basket weaving. 25% are engineers and 25% are in the Business School.

Stokes likely would have been the starter but Clarke has been 2nd string all along. Stokes probably fits the offense better but there's a reason both were playing early. I don't think the freshman/sophomore argument holds a whole lot of water for last week. That was a complete meltdown by the staff.

Vinny · October 27, 2015, 10:59:04 AM

When I receive mailings asking to increase my annual donation to the Crusader Fund, then yes, I begin to look at the entity and wonder if my money is being spent well. Granted, my $500 is a tiny drop in the bucket, but I apply the same thought process to companies in which I own stock. God forbid I use a little critical thinking.

vu72 · October 27, 2015, 12:39:53 PM

Quote from: Vinny on October 27, 2015, 10:59:04 AM
When I receive mailings asking to increase my annual donation to the Crusader Fund, then yes, I begin to look at the entity and wonder if my money is being spent well. Granted, my $500 is a tiny drop in the bucket, but I apply the same thought process to companies in which I own stock. God forbid I use a little critical thinking.

The Crusader Fund allows you to pick the sport(s) you want to support. Thanks for your support, regardless of what sport you pick.

valpochgo · October 27, 2015, 11:26:53 PM

If Valpo cut the football program they'd have 100 less students at the school. If the average player on the team is paying $25K in tuition after academic scholarships to attend Valpo that's $2.5 million dollars in lost revenue. I really don't think the school is paying over $2.5M in coaches salaries, equipment and travel expenses. If Valpo is losing money by having a football team it's not a substantial loss. I don't think football at Valpo is going away any time soon. I also don't think the new coaching staff should panic a year into turning around a program. New weight room and locker room should help with recruiting so I feel that the next couple of years we should see some real improvement. Also, Cecchini may have to also make some adjustments with his coaching staff in the future if the program is going to improve.

Here is a very interesting read on D3 programs profiting from football so I would assume Valpo falls into this category also.

http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611

covufan · October 28, 2015, 11:11:17 AM

Quote from: valpochgo on October 27, 2015, 11:26:53 PMHere is a very interesting read on D3 programs profiting from football so I would assume Valpo falls into this category also.http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611

Good article. I'm guessing that Evansville and other schools that have dropped football in the last few decades did not have this view of football and $$ income.

usc4valpo · October 28, 2015, 08:33:08 PM

Outstanding article, and comparing Valpo's football program to a Div. 3 program is certainly fair.

Cripe, MIT draws more fans for their games!

FWalum · October 29, 2015, 06:49:30 AM

Quote from: covufan on October 28, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: valpochgo on October 27, 2015, 11:26:53 PMHere is a very interesting read on D3 programs profiting from football so I would assume Valpo falls into this category also.http://deadspin.com/how-division-iii-colleges-profit-from-football-no-one-w-1440369611
Good article. I'm guessing that Evansville and other schools that have dropped football in the last few decades did not have this view of football and $$ income.

I sat on the parents board at UE from 2002-2006 and believe me they found out about "this view of football and $$ income". Not only did they lose quite a few of the players, but donations and applications went down. It was a very sore subject when I was on that board and took them some time to recover.

usc4valpo · October 29, 2015, 07:41:24 AM

I would guess that the return on investment for Division 3 football is higher than it is for Division I.

VU2624 · October 31, 2015, 10:38:05 AM

One last note on the game last week. I was on campus during the week to see my guys and what came up was much of what was mentioned here. Couldn't understand why the offense was changed for the game. Why was it done for Stetson which was a winnable game from the players perspective. Players weren't comfortable with new scheme. Both offense and defense were affected according to the guys in the locker room. Can't say the offensive side of the ball has a lot of faith in the staff right now. Apparently a number of players aren't happy and are looking at other options. Whether that's just locker room talk or comes to fruition we'll see.

usc4valpo · October 31, 2015, 04:39:06 PM

I wonder what those other options are. If they are coming to Valpo primarily to play football instead of an education, they need to get a clue.

VU2624 · October 31, 2015, 07:25:09 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on October 31, 2015, 04:39:06 PM
I wonder what those other options are. If they are coming to Valpo primarily to play football instead of an education, they need to get a clue.

If anyone thinks that the opportunity to play football doesn't factor into probably 90% of the football roster's school choice then it is they who need to get a clue. Other options can include many things which may or may not include playing football.

usc4valpo · October 31, 2015, 07:58:01 PM

Here is my point - if you leave Valpo because of football, you may be missing something in your life in the long term. To spend cash primarily to play on a football team is not sensible. In Division 3, academics should always take over football endeavors.

dime life · November 01, 2015, 09:03:28 AM

Heard same type comments as 2624...think the offensive side "overcoaching" VS Stetson and continued lack of, or zero, playing time for many returners has hit home. These are very smart kids and they see what is going on. It's a shame.

usc4valpo · November 01, 2015, 01:13:39 PM

A few things:

1. Cecchini is making mistakes, and he admits making mistakes as well as the coaching staff. I think he is trying to build a foundation for successful football in the long term. He will continue to make mistakes, and making an offensive change before Stetson was wrong.

2. That being said, I will take Cecchini over Carlson any day of the weak. No contest.

3. But let's face reality - the offensive is young and weak, and the upper classmen have not exactly been world beaters during their time at Valpo. I would like to know which upperclassmen should get more playing time over these freshmen. Id there that much of a talent difference? Or is it a seniority right to start?

4. What are the upperclassmen going to do at their college stage? Transfer? They are over halfway done in completing a degree!

2.

IndyValpo · November 01, 2015, 04:07:14 PM

Quote from: dime life on November 01, 2015, 09:03:28 AM
Heard same type comments as 2624...think the offensive side "overcoaching" VS Stetson and continued lack of, or zero, playing time for many returners has hit home. These are very smart kids and they see what is going on. It's a shame.

As said previously if you look our roster I just don't see a lot of contributors from last year who are not playing short of the punter as Chef mentioned unless injured. The closest I see is WR Shea but in reality prior to injuries last year he was about WR #6. Quite frankly there will always be guys who do not play. If they choose not to stick it out it is understandable.

IndyValpo · November 01, 2015, 04:09:29 PM

Didn't we try something completely different for the Butler game last year and
the coach was a genius.

usc4valpo · November 01, 2015, 04:34:51 PM

You do not start upperclassmen just because they have been around. It is not a right.

valpochgo · November 01, 2015, 07:27:59 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on October 31, 2015, 07:25:09 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 31, 2015, 04:39:06 PM
I wonder what those other options are. If they are coming to Valpo primarily to play football instead of an education, they need to get a clue.

If anyone thinks that the opportunity to play football doesn't factor into probably 90% of the football roster's school choice then it is they who need to get a clue. Other options can include many things which may or may not include playing football.

I actually heard the same thing.... Actually that many of the freshman aren't happy and our considering transferring. Yet most freshmen have a difficult time adjusting so they may change their mind after the season.

usc4valpo · November 01, 2015, 08:50:55 PM

There recruited 50 freshmen? Several will leave just based on that number, and that would be for any season. Valparaiso is not an ideal school for everyone for various reasons.

VU2624 · November 03, 2015, 10:17:45 AM

Quote from: IndyValpo on November 01, 2015, 04:09:29 PM
Didn't we try something completely different for the Butler game last year and
the coach was a genius.

There was more of an emphasis on the run for Butler but the basic sets those plays were run out of didn't change. That was the problem with the Stetson game.

VU2624 · November 03, 2015, 10:19:22 AM

Quote from: usc4valpo on November 01, 2015, 04:34:51 PM
You do not start upperclassmen just because they have been around. It is not a right.

This is less of an issue than thought by some....the upperclassman issue that is.

There are a lot of questions regarding the coaching staff and their choices. For the Stetson game, the entire game plan was questioned by the team. We've already discussed that aspect of it. The complaints are coming from players who are playing although there is some question regarding the overall playing time of some of the kids who are playing. The staff hasn't stuck to a z receiver all year long using 5 or 6, can't figure out what to do with Morgan, designs a gameplan which removes Rene from the field in favor of TEs playing...in some cases...in roles not accustomed to. These are just some of the issues.