Valpo in the National Rankings 2015-16 edition

[agibson]

Looks like we can start this off already in the pre-season.  I'm open to suggestions about whether we keep the mid-major stuff segregated, or not.

But, for now, the national polls.

To list a few references, bookmarks for myself if nothing else, I've been appreciating:

Warren Nolan
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/schedule/Valparaiso
for his historical ranking lists of the AP and Coaches', and numbering the places past 25.

http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/
for having a nice interface to get at some recent historical info, and the voters' individual ballots for the AP.

http://collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/index.cfm
has what seems like a comprehensive archive of the AP poll.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2015-polls.html
has a pretty useful archive of both polls, but nothing beyond #25?

I believe that the 2014-15 season, starting with the Feb 2 poll, is the first time _ever_ that we've received votes in both polls simultaneously. 

Our high water mark in the 2014-15 season was 31st with 10 points in the AP poll (Feb 23, week 16).  That was our high water mark for the coaches' poll also, at 29th with 16 points.

I believe we've only received votes in the AP poll twice before the 2014-15 season, in the 2012-2013 pre-season poll where we had three points and in the March 11, 2013 poll where we received one point.

We were nationally ranked in the coaches' poll, only, after the Sweet 16 run.  #23.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/1998-polls.html
We also received votes in the coaches' poll for four weeks in the 2010-2011 season (weeks 13-16) [added 11/16/15]
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2011/schedule/Valparaiso
In 2011 there's a reference http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2010-11/10447/crusaders-travel-to-cleveland-state-thursday/ to "Valpo last made an appearance in one of the national polls in March of 2002, accumulating five points in the last poll prior to the NCAA Tournament that season." I don't know of an easy, comprehensive, reference to past Coaches polls, so I'm not confident these are all instances of receiving votes there.

[agibson]

I've not seen the full details yet, but local journalists have some news
[tweet]661247248110649348[/tweet]

5 points is a step _up_ from where we ended the AP before the NCAA tournament last year (3 points, a #24 and a #25).  But, #42 is a step down (at the beginning of the season the votes are spread all over the place, one assumes) from where we left off at #35.

[vu84v2]

For Valparaiso (like any other team), I would argue that national rankings are pretty meaningless. And I would also argue that, for Valparaiso, national rankings are very important this year. This looks like a very good team, but in my opinion you will not get people other than those that already know Valparaiso to take notice unless Valpo gets nationally ranked or wins one or two NCAA tournament games (preferably both). I really hope that Valparaiso can make an early run to develop national visibility of the program.

[agibson]

I've not seen the full details yet

Still waiting for the aggregators to aggregate.  But it seems that it was none of John Feinstein, Seth Davis, or Dick Vitale that voted for us this time. All three liked us last season.

[vu72]

For Valparaiso (like any other team), I would argue that national rankings are pretty meaningless. And I would also argue that, for Valparaiso, national rankings are very important this year. This looks like a very good team, but in my opinion you will not get people other than those that already know Valparaiso to take notice unless Valpo gets nationally ranked or wins one or two NCAA tournament games (preferably both). I really hope that Valparaiso can make an early run to develop national visibility of the program.

Uh, I agree, I think.   We were told at a recent alumni gathering that the University was embracing the "Butler Model" of focusing attention on the Men's basketball success as a means of gathering attention for the University.  Getting ranked in the top 25 gets scores scrolled across tv's nationally and regular mentions on newscast.

[agibson]

Still waiting for the aggregators to aggregate.  But it seems that it was none of John Feinstein, Seth Davis, or Dick Vitale that voted for us this time. All three liked us last season.

OK - here we go.
http://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/vu/2015

Elton Alexander, from the Cleveland Plain Dealer, did give us some love last year, and has us at #24.

The other #24 seems to be new to the poll. Graham Couch.  Lansing, MI (!).

The other vote is a #25, from an ACC guy. Bret Strelow, Fayetteville, NC.  Didn't vote for us last year.

Feinstein was a maverick, more or less as usual I guess.  Rhode Island #22.  Butler #19.  Yale #25.

[crusaderjoe]

For Valparaiso (like any other team), I would argue that national rankings are pretty meaningless. And I would also argue that, for Valparaiso, national rankings are very important this year. This looks like a very good team, but in my opinion you will not get people other than those that already know Valparaiso to take notice unless Valpo gets nationally ranked or wins one or two NCAA tournament games (preferably both). I really hope that Valparaiso can make an early run to develop national visibility of the program.

Uh, I agree, I think.   We were told at a recent alumni gathering that the University was embracing the "Butler Model" of focusing attention on the Men's basketball success as a means of gathering attention for the University.  Getting ranked in the top 25 gets scores scrolled across tv's nationally and regular mentions on newscast.

The bold italicized comment above is one of the most exciting things I've read on this board in quite awhile.  Although, to be fair, IMO the "Butler Model" is not a recent concept, but rather the cultivation of a mindset that has spanned decades with its roots entrenched in the "2 for 1" mentality. This is a mentality that I'm not sure Valpo would ever feel comfortable pursuing given that we were technically on the opposite end of it.

Maybe Barry Collier can send us the cliffs notes version so we can run the "Butler Model lite". Can we accomplish any version of the "Model" without facility upgrades?  Not sure.  Nonetheless, it is really exciting that the school is embracing the flagship program like this.

[wh]

For Valparaiso (like any other team), I would argue that national rankings are pretty meaningless. And I would also argue that, for Valparaiso, national rankings are very important this year. This looks like a very good team, but in my opinion you will not get people other than those that already know Valparaiso to take notice unless Valpo gets nationally ranked or wins one or two NCAA tournament games (preferably both). I really hope that Valparaiso can make an early run to develop national visibility of the program.

Uh, I agree, I think.   We were told at a recent alumni gathering that the University was embracing the "Butler Model" of focusing attention on the Men's basketball success as a means of gathering attention for the University.  Getting ranked in the top 25 gets scores scrolled across tv's nationally and regular mentions on newscast.

The bold italicized comment above is one of the most exciting things I've read on this board in quite awhile.  Although, to be fair, IMO the "Butler Model" is not a recent concept, but rather the cultivation of a mindset that has spanned decades with its roots entrenched in the "2 for 1" mentality. This is a mentality that I'm not sure Valpo would ever feel comfortable pursuing given that we were technically on the opposite end of it.

Maybe Barry Collier can send us the cliffs notes version so we can run the "Butler Model lite". Can we accomplish any version of the "Model" without facility upgrades?  Not sure.  Nonetheless, it is really exciting that the school is embracing the flagship program like this.

Excellent post!

[agibson]

The bold italicized comment above is one of the most exciting things I've read on this board in quite awhile. 

I'll confess that I read it as lip service.  I'm not sure what it would mean in practice, or what's being done in practice to pursue it.

[vu84v2]

I would argue that the Valparaiso model and the "Buter way" are not incredibly different. Both emphasize character and leadership, combined with athletic ability and effort. Thus, for Butler I would argue that once they became successful they started framing their success around the "Butler way". Its not a fluke that Butler is successful - they have had great coaches and have been very good at recruiting the right players for their system.

So I reiterate again that visible national success is more important this season than most any other previous season. Getting and staying ranked, with the regular visibility on sports' highlights shows and the seemingly endless sports talk world, is no better advertisement for the program. That said, I know that Bryce, the other coaches, and the players will always make every effort to win and do the right thing - so I don't feel anyone can get too upset if Valpo does not get consistently ranked during the season. Hoping for more national visibility this year, but looking forward to a great season regardless.

[valpo84]

Bret Strelow is a good guy and a good Twitter follow: @bretstrelow

[oldgraydog]

Just noticed that Valpo was given the number one ranking of the Mid-Majors by NBC Sports.  This should put a large bull's on our backs going forward.
To new to post the external link, maybe someone else could do that.

[78crusader]

I have a sense of foreboding about this coming season.   Not sure why. Can't put my finger on it. However, getting shellacked by the Canadian team we played this summer and then apparently getting spanked by a mediocre Big 10 team in the recent scrimmage does not exactly inspire confidence.   Beating a Division II team by eight points at home does not help, either. Yes, I realize the Canadian team was a good team and University of Indianapolis is no slouch, but still...

Paul

[a3uge]

Can we wait till we play a legitimate game before panicking?

[vu84v2]

Valpo is #1 in a mid-major ranking where the Atlantic 10 and the top teams in the MVC and the WCC are removed. Hard to take that poll very seriously, but again visibility, recognition and being part of the national discussion is more important this  year.

[classof2014]

I have a sense of foreboding about this coming season.   Not sure why. Can't put my finger on it. However, getting shellacked by the Canadian team we played this summer and then apparently getting spanked by a mediocre Big 10 team in the recent scrimmage does not exactly inspire confidence.   Beating a Division II team by eight points at home does not help, either. Yes, I realize the Canadian team was a good team and University of Indianapolis is no slouch, but still...

Paul

These are all practic games. The coaches are using lineups they wouldn't normally use. Even as a player its in the back of your mind that these games mean nothing and probably don't go 100% on every play like they would during games that matter. Preseason is preseason; I'm sure many of the players use these games to work on their mechanics, yes they want to win but in the end its just practice.

[a3uge]

Valpo is #1 in a mid-major ranking where the Atlantic 10 and the top teams in the MVC and the WCC are removed. Hard to take that poll very seriously, but again visibility, recognition and being part of the national discussion is more important this  year.

"This is my plea: Don't argue the semantics of who we rated as high-major vs. mid-major. That's not the point of this. The point is to highlight the best teams in the country that you're probably not aware of, the teams you'll want to track this season if you want to accurately predict upsets come March."

The rankings are centered around Cinderellas, not certain conferences.

[covufan]

Just noticed that Valpo was given the number one ranking of the Mid-Majors by NBC Sports.  This should put a large bull's on our backs going forward.
To new to post the external link, maybe someone else could do that.

Valpo is #1 in a mid-major ranking where the Atlantic 10 and the top teams in the MVC and the WCC are removed. Hard to take that poll very seriously, but again visibility, recognition and being part of the national discussion is more important this  year.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2015/11/02/mid-major-power-rankings-the-best-from-the-rest-of-the-country/

http://www.midmajormadness.com/horizon-league/2015/10/17/9560287/mid-major-madness-preseason-power-15-countdown-valparaiso-crusaders

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php

http://www.midmajormadness.com/rankings/2015/10/6/9459255/preseason-mid-major-power-15-released

would love to see some of these teams end up on our schedule in future years.

[VULB#62]

We've got 3 (4?) of them this season with URI, Iona and Belmont (twice).  Not too shabby to start.

[covufan]

We've got 3 (4?) of them this season with URI, Iona and Belmont (twice).  Not too shabby to start.

Yes, and not a complaint on this years schedule.  Would like to see Central Michigan (and maybe other MAC teams), Illinois St., Evansville, etc., in future years.   If we are having trouble with scheduling, some of these teams might be as well.  Good place to start?

[justducky]

Would like to see Central Michigan (and maybe other MAC teams), Illinois St., Evansville, etc., in future years.   If we are having trouble with scheduling, some of these teams might be as well.

You have forgotten that Central Michigan ducked us last year when we went there to beat up on Pine Bluff and Maine. The MAC is becoming a master at gaming the system to produce OOC wins and artificially elevated RPIs.

[bbtds]

Opinions Are Like Butts Everybody Has One and Most Stink

"polls are just opinions expressed by larger numbers of people than a few. In the end they mean absolutely nothing"


While it is fun to speculate and imagine and wonder I wanted everyone to keep perspective and realize it means absolutely nothing to be voted highly in a poll. In the end it must be earned on the court, field, etc.

[bbtds]

I have a sense of foreboding about this coming season.   Not sure why. Can't put my finger on it. However, getting shellacked by the Canadian team we played this summer and then apparently getting spanked by a mediocre Big 10 team in the recent scrimmage does not exactly inspire confidence.   Beating a Division II team by eight points at home does not help, either. Yes, I realize the Canadian team was a good team and University of Indianapolis is no slouch, but still...

Paul

These are all practic games. The coaches are using lineups they wouldn't normally use. Even as a player its in the back of your mind that these games mean nothing and probably don't go 100% on every play like they would during games that matter. Preseason is preseason; I'm sure many of the players use these games to work on their mechanics, yes they want to win but in the end its just practice.

For those with a less than extensive vocabulary I looked up the word practic:

A person concerned with action or practice, as opposed to one concerned with theory.

[agibson]

Strelow (@bretstrelow) apparently has us at #22 (up from #24 last week).  Above Purdue, Butler, LSU.
http://www.fayobserver.com/blogs/sports/acc_basketball/acc-basketball-bret-strelow-s-ap-top-ballot/article_257f1754-8c7c-11e5-93b0-aff501f015dd.html

I don't see @eaPeeDee or @Graham_Couch posting their ballots.

Presumbaly we'll move up a bit, for not losing, for beating Iona, for smashing Iona, but likely not crack the top 25.  Last week that took 126 points.  With votes all over the place in the early season, paradoxically, being ranked #25 on all 65 ballots wouldn't get you #25 overall.

Seth Davis (their only voter last week) has said he dropped Iona.  Had us, with three other teams, on his "almost in" list.

The coaches' poll is out first this week, no love there
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/

[agibson]

The coaches' poll is out first this week, no love there
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/basketball-men/polls/coaches-poll/

Not even from Tim Cluess!

Michigan enters, Wisconsin exits, Oregon at #27. 

Oregon was #26 in the AP last week, and I guess their moving up to #25 and Wisconsin falling out of the top 25 is our best bet at a top 25 game this season, at least pre-NCAA (hopefully _not_ in the first round!).

Though, I notice Belmont has gone from 2 points to 4 points in the coaches' poll.  So, who knows?