Valpo in the National Rankings 2015-16 edition

[historyman]

Voters: Ben Miraski, Parks Smith, Will Maupin, Jimmy Kelley, John Hooper, Cam Newton, Tyler Bennett (College Court Report), Brandon Hickey (Hustle Belt), Michael James (@ivybball), Jordan Majewski (Staring at the Floorboards), Dan Bogle, Ryan McFarland, Michael Mallory

How long has the Panthers quarterback been a voter in the basketball mid-major poll?

[talksalot]

Defense - Points Per Game

1.   Arkansas-Little Rock   57.5
2.   Louisville   57.8
3.   Saint Mary's College   58.1
4.   Villanova   60.0
5.   San Diego State   60.4
6.   Old Dominion   60.7
7.   Purdue   60.8
8.   Virginia   61.2
9.   SMU   61.2
10.   Cincinnati   61.3
11.   Valparaiso   62.2   
12.   Clemson   62.4
12.   Navy     62.4
14.   Georgia State   62.6
15.   Michigan State   62.7
16.   Loyola-Chicago   62.9
17.   Texas State   63.2
18.   UC Irvine   63.3
19.   Wichita State   63.3
20.   Ball State   63.4

[a3uge]

Defense - Points Per Game

1.   Arkansas-Little Rock   57.5
2.   Louisville   57.8
3.   Saint Mary's College   58.1
4.   Villanova   60.0
5.   San Diego State   60.4
6.   Old Dominion   60.7
7.   Purdue   60.8
8.   Virginia   61.2
9.   SMU   61.2
10.   Cincinnati   61.3
11.   Valparaiso   62.2   
12.   Clemson   62.4
12.   Navy     62.4
14.   Georgia State   62.6
15.   Michigan State   62.7
16.   Loyola-Chicago   62.9
17.   Texas State   63.2
18.   UC Irvine   63.3
19.   Wichita State   63.3
20.   Ball State   63.4

Crazy, considering 3 Horizon teams (that we've already played) are in the top 10 in tempo/possessions per game - #7 UDM, #10 Oakland, and #2 UWGB. YSU and UIC are also in the top 100. Milwaukee, Valpo, Wright State, and CSU are still all the same, but the conference is moving more towards run and gun and less towards the old slogfests that we're used to.

[agibson]

but the conference is moving more towards run and gun and less towards the old slogfests that we're used to.

It really is a change from the Wright State defense, probably also Butler, when we joined the league.  Wright State still seems to play some defense.  But, for the league as a whole, it seems like a huge change.  And a big change, perhaps, even from last season to this season?

[hailcrusaders]

but the conference is moving more towards run and gun and less towards the old slogfests that we're used to.

It really is a change from the Wright State defense, probably also Butler, when we joined the league.  Wright State still seems to play some defense.  But, for the league as a whole, it seems like a huge change.  And a big change, perhaps, even from last season to this season?

Too bad, in my opinion. I liked the old slogfests. I wonder how much of it has to do with personnel (which will change quickly), coaching styles (only new at GB and UIC; won't change quickly), and the NCAA rule changes (won't change at all, presumably)

[wh]

IMO the change has more to do with the NCAA persisting that officiating crews continue to call body contact that impedes freedom of movement. Teams like WSU and CSU have made a living riding and bumping players to slow them down and wear them down. It's a strategy that allowed slower, less athletic teams keep faster, more athletic teams in check. It's the only reason Butler ever made it to back-to-back championship games against far more talented competition - that and master flopping by Howard (another gimmick that has been removed from the game).

[a3uge]

IMO the change has more to do with the NCAA persisting that officiating crews continue to call body contact that impedes freedom of movement. Teams like WSU and CSU have made a living riding and bumping players to slow them down and wear them down. It's a strategy that allowed slower, less athletic teams keep faster, more athletic teams in check. It's the only reason Butler ever made it to back-to-back championship games against far more talented competition - that and master flopping by Howard (another gimmick that has been removed from the game).

Lol that Butler starting 5 in 2010 has had more professional success than Duke's starting 5. Even Draymond Green was Michigan State's 4th leading scorer that year. Wes Johnson didn't amount to anything after Syracuse. It wasnt like Butler completely lacked talent compared to the teams they played - they had as much talent as any.

[HailVU2014]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but we received one vote from Jeff Goodman in the ESPN.com Power Rankings.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings

[chef]

Defense - Points Per Game

1.   Arkansas-Little Rock   57.5
2.   Louisville   57.8
3.   Saint Mary's College   58.1
4.   Villanova   60.0
5.   San Diego State   60.4
6.   Old Dominion   60.7
7.   Purdue   60.8
8.   Virginia   61.2
9.   SMU   61.2
10.   Cincinnati   61.3
11.   Valparaiso   62.2   
12.   Clemson   62.4
12.   Navy     62.4
14.   Georgia State   62.6
15.   Michigan State   62.7
16.   Loyola-Chicago   62.9
17.   Texas State   63.2
18.   UC Irvine   63.3
19.   Wichita State   63.3
20.   Ball State   63.4

Something's missing. Valpo is only giving up 60 points a game. What's this source? Does it not include games against non-D1? Anyhow, according to the NCAA stats, Valpo is 4th in points allowed.

[wh]

Defense - Points Per Game

1.   Arkansas-Little Rock   57.5
2.   Louisville   57.8
3.   Saint Mary's College   58.1
4.   Villanova   60.0
5.   San Diego State   60.4
6.   Old Dominion   60.7
7.   Purdue   60.8
8.   Virginia   61.2
9.   SMU   61.2
10.   Cincinnati   61.3
11.   Valparaiso   62.2   
12.   Clemson   62.4
12.   Navy     62.4
14.   Georgia State   62.6
15.   Michigan State   62.7
16.   Loyola-Chicago   62.9
17.   Texas State   63.2
18.   UC Irvine   63.3
19.   Wichita State   63.3
20.   Ball State   63.4

Something's missing. Valpo is only giving up 60 points a game. What's this source? Does it not include games against non-D1? Anyhow, according to the NCAA stats, Valpo is 4th in points allowed.

Looks like it came from warrennolanrpi. They don't count any results from non D-1 games - record, winning streaks, anything.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/stats

[agibson]

Looks like it came from warrennolanrpi. They don't count any results from non D-1 games - record, winning streaks, anything.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2016/stats

I bet he does count non-D1 for winning streaks.  At least his number for Valpo matches SID Aaron's.  But, yeah, in general, warrenolan.com looks askance on the non-D1's.

[agibson]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but we received one vote from Jeff Goodman in the ESPN.com Power Rankings.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/powerrankings

Nice!  Probably a (another) first for Valpo.

Only ten voters.  A longer list than I remembered, with 25 spots on the ballot.

[HailVU2014]

Don't look now, but Seth Davis is still giving us a Top 25 vote... Did not expect that!

(Also, I have no clue how to put tweets on a post...at least via the app...)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[talksalot]

Current Home Winning Streaks through 1/24
1. Arizona 49
2. Wichita State 41
3. Kansas 36
4. Kentucky 31
5. Maryland 24
5. South Dakota State 24
5. UAB 24
8. Stephen F. Austin 23
9. Valparaiso 22    
10. Oregon 20

Defense:   Points Per Game Allowed:
1. Arkansas-Little Rock 58.7
2. Louisville 58.8
3. Saint Mary's College 59.5
4. San Diego State 60.5
5. Virginia 61.4
6. Old Dominion 61.6
6. Villanova 61.6
8. Valparaiso 61.9
9. Purdue 62.0
10. Wichita State 62.3

[hailcrusaders]

Don't look now, but Seth Davis is still giving us a Top 25 vote... Did not expect that! (Also, I have no clue how to put tweets on a post...at least via the app...) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

By some miracle (ignorance??) we'll still be receiving at least one Top 25 vote tomorrow.

[vu72]

Don't look now, but Seth Davis is still giving us a Top 25 vote... Did not expect that! (Also, I have no clue how to put tweets on a post...at least via the app...) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

By some miracle (ignorance??) we'll still be receiving at least one Top 25 vote tomorrow.

speaking of ignorance, have you noticed what is happening in college basketball?  One lose to a pretty good team on THEIR floor does not make a season.  Number 21 USC just lost to Oregon State by 15. Is their season over?  Oh yeah, we beat OSU, are we in or out?  time will tell....

[hailcrusaders]

Don't look now, but Seth Davis is still giving us a Top 25 vote... Did not expect that! (Also, I have no clue how to put tweets on a post...at least via the app...) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

By some miracle (ignorance??) we'll still be receiving at least one Top 25 vote tomorrow.

speaking of ignorance, have you noticed what is happening in college basketball?  One lose to a pretty good team on THEIR floor does not make a season.  Number 21 USC just lost to Oregon State by 15. Is their season over?  Oh yeah, we beat OSU, are we in or out?  time will tell....

I guess it depends on what we mean by making or breaking a season. A Top 25 vote is nice, but ultimately meaningless. Do we still have a shot at an at-large, or will it all come down to the JLA?

If we make the NCAA, do we get the 9 or 10 seed we're hoping for? Or will we be relegated to the usual 12/13? That Wright State game meant nothing for this team's ability to pull a tournament upset, but I'd much rather play a 7 or an 8 seed than a 4 or a 5. A first round exit would be disappointing.

[oklahomamick]

Don't look now, but Seth Davis is still giving us a Top 25 vote... Did not expect that! (Also, I have no clue how to put tweets on a post...at least via the app...) Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

By some miracle (ignorance??) we'll still be receiving at least one Top 25 vote tomorrow.

speaking of ignorance, have you noticed what is happening in college basketball?  One lose to a pretty good team on THEIR floor does not make a season.  Number 21 USC just lost to Oregon State by 15. Is their season over?  Oh yeah, we beat OSU, are we in or out?  time will tell....

I guess it depends on what we mean by making or breaking a season. A Top 25 vote is nice, but ultimately meaningless. Do we still have a shot at an at-large, or will it all come down to the JLA? If we make the NCAA, do we get the 9 or 10 seed we're hoping for? Or will we be relegated to the usual 12/13? That Wright State game meant nothing for this team's ability to pull a tournament upset, but I'd much rather play a 7 or an 8 seed than a 4 or a 5. A first round exit would be disappointing.

agreed.  but we have to get there first.  getting there will require us winning two games on neutral court in Detroit. 

[agibson]

[tweet]691431625712914432[/tweet]

God bless Seth Davis.

Reasonable people can disagree, I think, about whether we're top 25 (Jerry Palm's immediate reply was "I love Valpo, but no way are they top 25."). But, I'm sure Davis saw we lost - he dropped us five places and he's no ignoramus.

[agibson]

Oh, and for tweets it's "(tweet)#(/tweet)" without the quotes, with [] instead of () and where # is the number from the end of the URL.

Probably St. Mary's, at least, will pass us on the mid major poll...

And, while I still hope for better, and we still have time to prove we deserve it, given recent history I'd consider a 12 seed a minor victory.

We've had a 12... once? Against BC?  12 seeds win games.

[a3uge]

Oh, and for tweets it's "(tweet)#(/tweet)" without the quotes, with [] instead of () and where # is the number from the end of the URL.

Probably St. Mary's, at least, will pass us on the mid major poll...

And, while I still hope for better, and we still have time to prove we deserve it, given recent history I'd consider a 12 seed a minor victory.

We've had a 12... once? Against BC?  12 seeds win games.

I wouldn't worry too much about 10-13... It really depends on the matchup and vulnerability/momentum of each team. Last year Valpo was underseeded and in the past two trips were a bit overseeded themselves (according to RPI, bracket projections, etc). Maryland had won 8 of their past 9, including a win against eventual runner-up Wisconsin. The other 4 seeds were Louisville and UNC, so it may not have mattered sitting at a 13, but they could have played Georgetown, Iowa State, Arkansas... All weaker teams, but 3-4 seeds. Of course Michigan State in Michigan was a brutal draw. Getting a higher seed mitigates the likelihood of a bad matchup, but sometimes you just need a bit of luck.

[agibson]

I didn't think hard about it, but definitely better than I expected
[tweet]691696214107111424[/tweet]

It must be easy to drop teams on a loss. Glad we didn't fall all the way out.  Maybe there were plenty of losses in the top 35, and not too many knocking on the door.

That's down to a three-way tie for 37th in the Coaches Poll, as it seems votes are getting diluted a bit, spread among more teams.  And we're not too far behind Butler now, falling from #24 to receiving just fifteen votes.  St. Mary's takes 31, Gonzaga hangs on to 17, Little Rock 5, Monmouth 3.

Tied for 34th in the AP.  Behind Butler. But with Gonzaga (and Little Rock, Monmouth) nowhere in sight.

I'll take this all as a sign of respect.  For Valpo.  For the league. Maybe even for Wright State.

But, it might also be a sign of weakness in the top 50.  (Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with that too!)

[vu72]

I didn't think hard about it, but definitely better than I expected
[tweet]691696214107111424[/tweet]

It must be easy to drop teams on a loss. Glad we didn't fall all the way out.  Maybe there were plenty of losses in the top 35, and not too many knocking on the door.

That's down to a three-way tie for 37th in the Coaches Poll, as it seems votes are getting diluted a bit, spread among more teams.  And we're not too far behind Butler now, falling from #24 to receiving just fifteen votes.  St. Mary's takes 31, Gonzaga hangs on to 17, Little Rock 5, Monmouth 3.

Tied for 34th in the AP.  Behind Butler. But with Gonzaga (and Little Rock, Monmouth) nowhere in sight.

I'll take this all as a sign of respect.  For Valpo.  For the league. Maybe even for Wright State.

But, it might also be a sign of weakness in the top 50.  (Don't get me wrong, I'm OK with that too!)

Well said.  The notion that all of a sudden, based on a loss at Wright State, that we no longer had any possibility of an at-large bid is just wrong.  Everybody seems to be beatable this season.  Michigan State had lost three in a row.  Maryland (who many had picked as the ultimate champ this season)have lost three.  The great Butler boys have lost 6!(and 5 of their last 7)  We have a long way to go but so does everyone else.

[valpotx]

Very surprising.  It seems that mid-majors get more respect nowadays, from a few voters at least.  Several years ago, this loss would have doomed any chance of us getting votes again, unless we rattled off 10 more wins. 

[talksalot]

Interesting to ponder... what if...

What if the Bracketbuster was around?   We'd be wondering how they would pair us up...and hoping we'd get a home game with the likes of St Marys or Gonzaga...


AP POLL:  (T-34)

Others Receiving Votes: Dayton (16-3) 77; South Carolina (17-2) 74; St. Mary's (17-2) 42; Pittsburgh (16-3) 38; Southern California (15-5) 27; Butler (13-6) 26; Clemson (12-7) 18; VCU (15-5) 17; Hawaii (16-2) 9; Valparaiso (17-4) 9; Connecticut (14-5) 5; Utah (15-5) 5; UAB (17-3) 4; Chattanooga (17-3) 2; Navy (15-5) 1; Michigan (15-5) 1; Grand Canyon (18-2) 1; Colorado (15-5) 1

COACHES POLL: (T-36)

Others Receiving Votes: Dayton (16-3) 49; St. Mary's (17-2) 31; Clemson (12-7) 30; Notre Dame (14-5) 20; Gonzaga (15-5) 17; Butler (13-6) 15; Southern California (15-5) 14; Connecticut (14-5) 11; Michigan (15-5) 10; California (14-6) 10; Washington (13-6) 7; VCU (15-5) 6; LSU (12-7) 6; Valparaiso (17-4) 6; Arkansas-Little Rock (17-2) 5; UAB (17-3) 4; Utah (15-5) 4; Texas (12-7) 3; Monmouth (15-5) 3; Saint Joseph's (16-3) 2; Oregon State (12-6) 1

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