@ Jacksonville 11/21

[VULB#62]

At least held them to a FG

[usc4valpo]

62 - you are definitely a half full dude!!

Interesting radio broadcast - you can hear the sidelines well. They are 10 feet from ground level - this stadium has to be interesting

[valporun]

This game could end at halftime, since neither team is playing for anything more than because they have to.

[usc4valpo]

I think the white flag and the season can be completed. End it, grab some seafood and soul food, fly back and readjust for next year.

[usc4valpo]

Bad news --- Davidson is beating Stetson. The drop to the bottom of the Sagarin ratings is at risk.

[talksalot]

Had a long delay at Stetson... still 10-0 Davidson...at the half... as of 4:45pm valpo time...

@StetsonHatters:     

Today's Stetson-Davidson football game continues in a weather delay. Updates as they happen

[VULB#62]

Had to miss the last 7 minutes of Q2 and all of the second half.  Sorry to see the score being so one sided when I returned.    Probably better for my health.  I could feel my BP creeping up as I watched our mistakes and also saw the size/speed gap.

One interesting note while watching the game on ESPN3, the JU announcers commented about the HFBC making this maybe his last year at JU.  They based this on 1) his kid (QB Kalen Bell) was graduating, 2) his superb winning record (51-21), and 3) that JU was going in a different direction in football *, they did not expect to see Kerwin Bell coaching JU next year.

Hmmmmm.  * Could that mean that because they committed to abiding by the PFL rules, he wants out of there?  Easy to speculate that knowing that if only purely need players would be used, his chances of recruiting the same athletes he's had in the past are now a thing of the past, he will be looking for better chances to win.  It should be noted that all players who were given "additional" aid that resulted in JU vacating games and accepting ineligibility for a PFL title, were allowed to still stay in school for this season (if NCAA eligible of course).

[talksalot]

Davidson 20 Stetson 17...final

Time of Poss. VU 34:45  JU 25:15
Further proof... that stat is meaningless...

[usc4valpo]

Time of possession can be a key statistic, and generally I tend to disagree.  In the National Champuionship game last year, OSU led Oregon on time of possession 41 to 19. That stat was the clear indicator why the Buckeyes won - the Duck defense tired out after taking a extensive pounding from the OSU running game, Total yards at times can be a meaningless stat also. Turnovers IMO can be a significant factor.

The Sagarin rating is going to be scary tomorrow - we can certainly be the worst team in college football.

[VU2624]

From the sidelines:

Tough to deal with all of the injuries. Choudry, Morgan, Mallon, Bradley, Shea amongst those knocked out of game.

Call for the quick kick wasn't really smart. Don't recall Scott trying this one at any other time. Low snap didn't help. The biggest problem I had, believe it or not, was that Valpo had to call timeout on the PAT to get the FG block unit on to the field. That's just a micro-sim of some issues with the coaching staff during this season. It's inexcusable. The call for the play itself is questionable as well...just punt the ball.

Beyond that, Valpo is simply outmanned in this game. Jax was much much faster and much much bigger. I got more color on what they were sanctioned for and, in addition to the overfunding of aid to the players, the playoff sanction was for one year however the players got to keep all aid. IOW...if a player was a freshman, he's still going to receive the aid for his next 3 years of eligibility. Jax is drawing from a different talent and social pool than Valpo....and likely the rest of the PFL....is.

Heard some real serious discussion on potential desertions. I think most are back. However, the biggest issue will be at QB. I'll leave it at that.

Cecchini is at a crossroads in a lot of opinion heard at the game. In his third year, he has to show significant progress. This means his current recruits have to step up, the upper class that contribute have to continue to do so plus more.  He has to have the right guys on the staff and I'm not sure he does and that he knows he doesn't. It wouldn't shock me, based on conversation, if there are some major changes on both sides of the ball. Dave has to get it right and right now. If he doesn't, he has to think about what it means for his long term career.

[usc4valpo]

Hopefully this coaching staff has some serious lessons learned so they can move forward and progress next season. I think Cecchini and his staff will be under the gun and deserved so. Expecting 1-9 and consistently bottom feeder teams is unacceptable.

Regarding the QB situation -- I think if any of them leave it will not effect the team in the long term. None of them were showstoppers this year. The other issue is that Valpo really needs better overall talent if they want compete in the Pioneer league and not be an annual pretender.

The problem with many Division 3 like schools is that they are freshman and sophomore loaded as many players quit to work on studies. This was indicative on Valpo's roster this year.

The good news is that Valpo is raking in cash from the football program. However, I also think Valpo athletics and the university need to take actions to make the college football experience better. Allowing decent tailgating would be a good start. Right now the Valpo football experience is as exciting and effective as Rick Santorum's presidential ucampaign.

[VU2624]

Regarding the QB situation -- I think if any of them leave it will not effect the team in the long term. None of them were showstoppers this year. 

One in particular would be an issue.

[usc4valpo]

the one that redshirted?

[VULB#62]

Kinda disagree on the quick kick call.  Not a bad call IMO as we have executed it well in the past and the situation was a plausible "go for it" one.  The key word is execute. Four things: 1) I don't know how much that play is practiced.  If you are gonna use it, it needs to be an essential part of the ST playbook and always practiced on a weekly basis; 2) I agree, to the best of my recollection, that Scott was not one of the QBs in the past that  actually quick kicked, and so that was a contributing factor to poor execution.  3) the last time I recall a quick kick, Nate Koeneman, an experienced senior, was the center. The center in this game was a freshman and the ball bounced to Scott. But it still should have worked (the ball just had to travel 25 yards or so to be effective) except for 4) which comes back to an overwhelmed and inexperienced OL. As I recall, when Scott reached down to pick the ball, raised his head to get set for the kick, all he saw was green shirts, and rushed the kick. Kind of a perfect storm of issues.

Speaking of Special Teams issues, 2624, you pointed out the TO on the XP, but we need to add 1) the punt catastrophe --snap over the head of the punter and then the punter kicking the ball out of bounds instead of falling on it or trying to run it back. Trying to kick it had two major risks -- he could have missed and the JU defenders could have taken it to the house or the ball might have squabbled, stayed in bounds, and the JU defenders could have, um, taken it to the house. Plus it was illegal, so a penalty adds even better field position.  2). The fumble on a kick-off return that gave JU super field position yet again.

Good teams spend a lot of time on ST. And if a team is not good, it needs to minimize game changing errors -- ones that show up glaringly on ST. 

Overall Dave and his staff, along with the players, have learned a lot of painful lessons this season. Now we wait to see how he evaluates the season past and how he responds to the challenges.  I'm thinking a separate string is best for a post mortem discussion.

[VU2624]

Kinda disagree on the quick kick call.  Not a bad call IMO as we have executed it well in the past and the situation was a plausible "go for it" one.  The key word is execute. Four things: 1) I don't know how much that play is practiced.  If you are gonna use it, it needs to be an essential part of the ST playbook and always practiced on a weekly basis; 2) I agree, to the best of my recollection, that Scott was not one of the QBs in the past that  actually quick kicked, and so that was a contributing factor to poor execution.  3) the last time I recall a quick kick, Nate Koeneman, an experienced senior, was the center. The center in this game was a freshman and the ball bounced to Scott. But it still should have worked (the ball just had to travel 25 yards or so to be effective) except for 4) which comes back to an overwhelmed and inexperienced OL. As I recall, when Scott reached down to pick the ball, raised his head to get set for the kick, all he saw was green shirts, and rushed the kick. Kind of a perfect storm of issues.

The storm of issues is exactly why it's a bad call. Just punt the ball. What advantage are you gaining with the quick kick? You expose a QB who you don't want hurt at all to going through an act he hasn't in a game before leaving him a bit more vulnerable. Everything about the decision was poor.

Speaking of Special Teams issues, 2624, you pointed out the TO on the XP, but we need to add 1) the punt catastrophe --snap over the head of the punter and then the punter kicking the ball out of bounds instead of falling on it or trying to run it back. Trying to kick it had two major risks -- he could have missed and the JU defenders could have taken it to the house or the ball might have squabbled, stayed in bounds, and the JU defenders could have, um, taken it to the house. Plus it was illegal, so a penalty adds even better field position.  2). The fumble on a kick-off return that gave JU super field position yet again. Good teams spend a lot of time on ST. And if a team is not good, it needs to minimize game changing errors -- ones that show up glaringly on ST. Overall Dave and his staff, along with the players, have learned a lot of painful lessons this season. Now we wait to see how he evaluates the season past and how he responds to the challenges.  I'm thinking a separate string is best for a post mortem discussion.

Couple of things here. The snap was bad however my theory has always been that if the ball hits the ground on a punt or placekick just assume disaster....ask Michigan for an extreme example. Koz didn't react properly but it's not uncommon for a poor reaction under those circumstances.

The fumble on the return....Jarrett was injured on the play and ended up on crutches. The fact that he fumbled is more of a circumstance than coaching issue.

I've talked to some players about plays I'll refer to as specific situations in the past and yesterday. I don't think they are practiced much. For instance the hail mary last year at SD was apparently NEVER practiced defensively last year and also never practiced offensively for a circumstance in which Valpo needed a last second score. The pooch kick is not something given much attention from what I was told...one reason I mentioned it as a bad call.

One aside note....at halftime I notice the team, coaches and medical staff walked off the field leaving a prone Jarrett Morgan on the sidelines on the medical bench by himself after he was injured on the kickoff some time earlier in the half.  A couple of Jax medical people came over to him after a minute or two and he eventually walked off accompanied by a Jax person. I found that both strange and very troubling from a Valpo standpoint. I passed by the players field entrance right as halftime was ending and the coaching staff was coming out and to say Jarrett's mother was unhappy would be a significant understatement. She was lighting up the coaches pretty good. I really don't understand walking off and leaving a player behind.

[usc4valpo]

leaving an injured player unattended? and we are pretending to be a Division 1 football program? If these actions are true, that is pathetic and the administration needs to address this.

Cripe, even College of Faith would not allow that!

[VU2624]

The main focus of the post game conversation was on the Morgan situation amongst the parents and yes, absent a reasonable explanation of which I can't think of one, it can be described as pathetic. The first group off the field was the medical (or training) staff. This with at least 6 players who started but were unable to finish the game. This includes two players who had injuries to above the neck. Medical staff should not leave the field until all players have exited.

[VULB#62]

The main focus of the post game conversation was on the Morgan situation amongst the parents and yes, absent a reasonable explanation of which I can't think of one, it can be described as pathetic. The first group off the field was the medical (or training) staff. This with at least 6 players who started but were unable to finish the game. This includes two players who had injuries to above the neck. Medical staff should not leave the field until all players have exited.

Can't understand Rod Moore's crew doing something like that. Inexcusable. To be fair to Cecchini, he's just seen his team implode and has 20 minutes to react. He relies on and should trust in the training staff to do their job -- manage injuries and injured players.  His job is not to manage trainers -- that's Rod's (who reports to MLB). Nevertheless and regardless, inexcusable. I hope Jarrett's injury was not long-term and significant.

[VULB#62]

The storm of issues is exactly why it's a bad call. Just punt the ball. What advantage are you gaining with the quick kick? You expose a QB who you don't want hurt at all to going through an act he hasn't in a game before leaving him a bit more vulnerable. Everything about the decision was poor.

We'll agree to disagree on the play calling.  Given the outcome in retrospect, yes, it hurt us.  That's hindsight. At that point in the game, it was a gamble to try to restore some momentum for a losing team that needed a spark.  Had it worked and been downed on the, say, 2, everyone would have said nice play.  But I would still maintain in general that a quick kick is a good tactic in that circumstance (absent what we both agree are the storm of issues we identified in retrospect).  A quick kick is executed in less time than a punt - from snap to foot/ball contact about 1.5 secs - so the QB should never be at risk. By running out your O instead of the the ST, JU was forced to use their defensive squad which is not used to handling a punt. The chances of an inadvertent touch/fumble and recovery are decent. Most quick kicks result in the ball being downed deep in the opponent's territory, some of that because if a D is well coached, they will get the hell out of the area so as not to make a mistake and lose the ball (see above). 

"The fumble on the return....Jarrett was injured on the play and ended up on crutches. The fact that he fumbled is more of a circumstance than coaching issue. "

Didn't see the fumble - going only on the ValpoAthletics write-up and unaware that Jarrett was hurt on that play, but merely highlighting that it was another bad thing that happened while special teams were on the field.

[VU2624]

The storm of issues is exactly why it's a bad call. Just punt the ball. What advantage are you gaining with the quick kick? You expose a QB who you don't want hurt at all to going through an act he hasn't in a game before leaving him a bit more vulnerable. Everything about the decision was poor.

We'll agree to disagree on the play calling.  Given the outcome in retrospect, yes, it hurt us.  That's hindsight. At that point in the game, it was a gamble to try to restore some momentum for a losing team that needed a spark.  Had it worked and been downed on the, say, 2, everyone would have said nice play.  But I would still maintain in general that a quick kick is a good tactic in that circumstance (absent what we both agree are the storm of issues we identified in retrospect).  A quick kick is executed in less time than a punt - from snap to foot/ball contact about 1.5 secs - so the QB should never be at risk. By running out your O instead of the the ST, JU was forced to use their defensive squad which is not used to handling a punt. The chances of an inadvertent touch/fumble and recovery are decent. Most quick kicks result in the ball being downed deep in the opponent's territory, some of that because if a D is well coached, they will get the hell out of the area so as not to make a mistake and lose the ball (see above). 

You listed a number of issues above yourself as to why it was a poor choice. Just punt the ball.

[usc4valpo]

and give Jarred Morgan some fricking medical support!!

[VU2624]

I hope Jarrett's injury was not long-term and significant.

Don't think it is.

[IndyValpo]

Call for the quick kick wasn't really smart. Don't recall Scott trying this one at any other time. Low snap didn't help. The biggest problem I had, believe it or not, was that Valpo had to call timeout on the PAT to get the FG block unit on to the field. That's just a micro-sim of some issues with the coaching staff during this season. It's inexcusable. The call for the play itself is questionable as well...just punt the ball.

Agree on the quick kick...

The TO on the EXP was called on the field by a player. We were short a player or players, not sure which coach you expected to be out there for the block attempt. I would hope that by college the players have some responsibility for being on the field when they should be. I pay almost no attention to this set and I know it is 10 defensive starters and Morgan.

[VU2624]

Call for the quick kick wasn't really smart. Don't recall Scott trying this one at any other time. Low snap didn't help. The biggest problem I had, believe it or not, was that Valpo had to call timeout on the PAT to get the FG block unit on to the field. That's just a micro-sim of some issues with the coaching staff during this season. It's inexcusable. The call for the play itself is questionable as well...just punt the ball.

Agree on the quick kick...

The TO on the EXP was called on the field by a player. We were short a player or players, not sure which coach you expected to be out there for the block attempt. I would hope that by college the players have some responsibility for being on the field when they should be. I pay almost no attention to this set and I know it is 10 defensive starters and Morgan.

I know the timeout was called on the field however it is absolutely the coach's responsibility to make sure his personnel was on the field. This wasn't one guy missing, it was (apparently) 3.

[usc4valpo]

Was there any discussion why the injured player was left alone at half. That story is really upsetting.