Game 6: @ Oregon 11/22

VULB#62 · November 22, 2015, 07:53:12 PM

Didn't see/hear the game. Came home and after seeing the box score was appalled at the FT differential. Silver lining: the players heard us -- we hit for 83% from the line.

The appropriate post game attitude is not content having almost pulled off a win and we should do ok against OSU; it should be pissed off that we didn't win and we will take that frustration out on OSU.

valpotx · November 22, 2015, 08:16:51 PM

I wasn't able to watch the game, but followed the live stats on my phone while out to dinner. It seemed like we went toe-to-toe with a good team, even with a large foul difference in the first half. Were they legitimate fouls, or were they getting some big school calls? I don't mind this loss, but I would not be happy if we lose at Oregon State as well.

Why are we getting on Vashil? His stat line doesn't look bad from a defensive/rebounding standpoint, and he played the last 10 minutes or so with 4 fouls. We seemed to have played better against Oregon than a ranked Baylor team did...

govalpogo · November 22, 2015, 08:33:32 PM

All I have are stats to go by, but it seemed blow for blow for much of the game. What I like about the scheduling this year is that the team has an almost immediate chance for redemption against another quality opponent. This team, especially AP, seem to get really mad when they lose/don't play their best. I anticipate that they will indeed take out their frustration on Tuesday. Opposed to years past when we seem to "wet the bed" against power conference teams, this felt more like the Maryland game in which we locked horns with a foe and just came out on the wrong end. One will fall our way soon, perhaps this week!

I'm not really one for the at-large discussion...if we're really that good then we really ought to win the conference tournament anyway. This loss is much easier for me to swallow than one in the HL championship would be. In our "predict November poll" 0 people chose "8-0." Which game were we expecting to drop if not this one?

d0uble3m · November 22, 2015, 08:44:44 PM

We never got in any offensive flow, especially in the second half and especially against their zone D. Over half of our shots were contested three pointers and we were consistently taking that shot with 2 or 3 seconds left on the shot clock because we couldn't get any decent looks before that. We took that contested 3 out of necessity which was evident because we could have easily had the same shot earlier in the shot clock. I think this problem could have been prevented if Peters would have stepped up and knocked down a couple of the "okay" looks from the top of the key that he was getting as we were spinning the ball around against the zone. That might have gotten them out of the zone. The only other good half court offensive possessions were a couple of moves by the Walker's and a drive or two by Hammink.

The bottom line is that we are not a great 3-point shooting team and so if we are forced to take more than half of our shots behind the arc, we are going to lose against quality opponents.

With all of that being said, I do believe that Skara could have really helped in this game. I think he could have made a difference in the short corner against that zone and could have hit a cutting Peters a few times to open things up.

crusadermoe · November 22, 2015, 09:16:08 PM

Agree with you and the other poster who wonders why Alex didn't shoot a three more often. He passed it on to others who don't shoot his percentage or stand 6'9" with ability to shoot over the top. That was frustrating. Does any one on the team complain if he misses a few?

He took only SEVEN shots until the last two! Tevonn and Shane took 13+. I found that baffling, especially after he hit the 4-point play.

StlVUFan · November 22, 2015, 09:28:26 PM

The info I got yesterday from the BWW here was wrong. Like in Valpo, they have DirectTV. I had to settle for good ole' first row sports

It started freezing up on me midway through the second half, but it mostly worked.

I thought the 4th foul called on Vashiel was highly questionable. I also thought he could have been called for offensive basket interference on that one play in the first half, so ...

It's a bummer, but then that's the point of these rare quality win opportunities: they're supposed to be bummers for us. If the bank wasn't open for Darien to end the first half, if they don't call all the offensive fouls on Oregon that they did, etc., etc., etc., we probably get beat by 13 instead of 6. As it is, they threatened twice to break the game wide open and each time we clawed our way back.

As always, if you're looking for company on the pissed-off-mobile, don't look at me. When you're only given 1 measly opportunity for a top-25 win, you're pretty much set up for failure to begin with.

Disappointed? Absolutely.

wh · November 22, 2015, 09:45:25 PM

Lots of interesting post game comments. A ton of knowledgeable posters on this board.

SanityLost17 · November 22, 2015, 09:47:53 PM

I thought this was one of the poorer coaching performances from Bryce.

- He didn't manage timeouts well.
- The foul/free throw disparity was because Oregon was aggressive driving the basketball and we were not. Should have left Hammink in for longer stretches because he was having success getting to the basket. Tevonn and Carter can also get to the basket but they rarely even tried, which leads me to believe it wasn't in the game plan. We need to be taking advantage of freedom of movement rules. I guarantee Felder will be taking full advantage of them when we see Oakland 2-3 times this year.
- We have built our identity on tough man to man defense and then we reinvent ourselves with a zone??? It was pretty obvious that we don't practice it nearly as often and it really messed up our rebounding. BTW, rebounding is why we lost this game.

Obviously we were not at our best tonight, and we kept it close. So that is a good sign. Everyone keeps talking about our depth, but CURRENTLY we are not very deep at all. With Smits and Skara out, Nickerson extremely rusty as hell, and Lexus obviously a year away from getting back to his former lightning quick self (if he ever does); we are simply not that deep at this very moment. Max is an ok backup because he plays pretty good defense and doesn't turn it over a lot. However, he can't shoot and he isn't exactly an assist machine.

wh · November 22, 2015, 10:09:55 PM

Dana Altman post game comments:

http://www.goducks.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ID=1194707

d0uble3m · November 22, 2015, 10:40:18 PM

Agreed that rebounding is a big reason we lost. I actually liked our zone defense. We forced a good amount of turnovers and forced them to take some bad shots (a few of which they actually hit). However, you're correct that we did not know how to box out in the zone which gave them a few easy put backs.

ValpoFan · November 22, 2015, 11:18:15 PM

The sky is not falling. Like someone else before me mentioned, no body expected us to go undefeated this season, right? This is our toughest schedule game this year and we were in it until the last 4 minutes. Let's win the remaining ones and go 30-1

Let's move on and plan for OSU. They are not nearly as good as Oregon. We should be able to beat the Beavers. That should be the focus now.

bbtds · November 23, 2015, 04:07:47 AM

BEAT THE

!!!

It's time. It's expected. We have the talent. It's time to believe in Valpo Victory!

Believe in Valpo Victory!

btw, don't type "beat-the-beavers" in google search!

usc4valpo · November 23, 2015, 07:22:53 AM

Valpo played hard and this was not the New Mexico fiasco. This is a great road trip and experience for the Saders - they need to do this more often.

justducky · November 23, 2015, 07:54:49 AM

Quote from: d0uble3m on November 22, 2015, 08:44:44 PMI do believe that Skara could have really helped in this game. I think he could have made a difference in the short corner against that zone and could have hit a cutting Peters a few times to open things up.

If healthy David might have played 21+ minutes. He is a longer better zone defender than Darien and offers another long armed option both as a driver and a cutter.

Is there an issue with EVN? He hardly played and might have been an offensive liability but I would have thought his defense might have earned him 12 minutes of play.

While watching the Baylor game I didn't fully appreciate the effectiveness of the Oregon zone.

justducky · November 23, 2015, 08:46:44 AM

Jubril played a great 23 minutes but only found 2 rebounds. Even he couldn't seem to find anybody to box out!

Nice looking wide open 3 pointer that looked textbook. If he continues to hit those at 33% he may be given a much bigger and brighter green light. As I have said before, against man defenses a Jubril that can hit the 3 will open up the entire offensive end.

agibson · November 23, 2015, 09:22:14 AM

Sounds like the WVUR stream was overwhelmed by the number of fans.

agibson · November 23, 2015, 01:32:17 PM

Over on the Oregon State thread we had a proposal of a shake-up in the starting lineup

Quote from: justducky on November 23, 2015, 10:43:22 AMShane for Darien?

and I started typing, but mostly about the Oregon game. So I'll put it here.

I enjoyed seeing season-high minutes for Shane and love to see him slashing to the basket, despite his height. Not sure about his three point shooting (0-for-4 with that memorable wide-open look when we could have used the points), I've been wondering if it's part of his game (I see he was 2-3 against Iona from 3pt land).

Darien's three-point shooting was better, with some memorable ones and 3-for-7 overall. Hopefully he's getting out of his funk.

I was definitely wondering what the difference was with Oregon getting to the basket (for fouls and often and-ones) and us... sometimes not trying much? We drew a foul or two in the second half (over the loud protests of the student section - too close to the microphones). But, the play that stood out for me was... was it Hammink?... baseline drive into one, maybe two defenders.... Travel. Almost the same play for Oregon was a foul on us. Made me wonder if it was timing, ball handling, or what, that made the difference. And that caused Oregon to apparently be able to draw a foul on every possession, and us to settle for tentative looks from outside.

Or maybe there was some amount of home cooking from the officials.

FWalum · November 23, 2015, 02:22:41 PM

Quote from: agibson on November 23, 2015, 01:32:17 PM
I was definitely wondering what the difference was with Oregon getting to the basket (for fouls and often and-ones) and us... sometimes not trying much? We drew a foul or two in the second half (over the loud protests of the student section - too close to the microphones). But, the play that stood out for me was... was it Hammink?... baseline drive into one, maybe two defenders.... Travel. Almost the same play for Oregon was a foul on us. Made me wonder if it was timing, ball handling, or what, that made the difference. And that caused Oregon to apparently be able to draw a foul on every possession, and us to settle for tentative looks from outside.

Or maybe there was some amount of home cooking from the officials.

It was going to be a tall order to win at Matthew Knight Arena. I hope everyone here realizes that Oregon has the 8th best home court winning percentage in all of Division I basketball, better than Michigan St., Duke and Louisville to name just a few. So is it any surprise that they are getting calls and we are not? My friends at IPFW were accusing us of exactly the same thing on opening night. That is why home court advantage is so important in DI basketball, just ask UNC. Do you think they will ever play at a decent mid major home court again?

agibson · November 23, 2015, 04:10:35 PM

The AP writeup was surprisingly interesting, and here's the CBS Sports writeup
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25385830/after-valpo-win-oregon-owns-among-strongest-resumes-in-college-hoops

It includes such faint praise as

Quote
For Valpo, which could still end up being a dangerous 12 or 13 seed four months from now, it was another loss against a ranked program.

(I notice there's no disclaimer about both of Oregon's wins being on their home court...)

A 12 would be better than a 13... But, you sure hope for something better. Something historic.

Of course, all they can do is win one game at a time. And Oregon State would be a great start.

(I find myself entertaining the idea of a road trip to Ball State over the weekend. Might not be much of a game... and a little crazy to consider making a whole day out of it with the family. But, I've gotten used to lots of Valpo basketball over Thanksgiving...)

StlVUFan · November 23, 2015, 08:36:44 PM

My reaction to that article:

https://twitter.com/StlVUFan/status/668642131523837952
https://twitter.com/StlVUFan/status/668642506792415239

FWIW... Kind of a premature rebuttal, but I just sense a bunch of "Valpo no longer an at-large candidate after losing at Oregon" comments coming from the pundits.

Pgmado · November 23, 2015, 10:51:13 PM

It's an unfair system Jim. Mids have to do twice as much to get half as much. Valpo definitely needs a win over Oregon State to be considered. If not, the only wins Valpo will end up will be against mid-major teams, which any mid trying to get an at-large team should beat. Again, it's not a fair system.

StlVUFan · November 23, 2015, 11:40:36 PM

Quote from: Pgmado on November 23, 2015, 10:51:13 PM
It's an unfair system Jim. Mids have to do twice as much to get half as much. Valpo definitely needs a win over Oregon State to be considered. If not, the only wins Valpo will end up will be against mid-major teams, which any mid trying to get an at-large team should beat. Again, it's not a fair system.

Oh, I have no illusions that what I said will actually trump the decision makers. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy, for what little it's worth.

StlVUFan · November 23, 2015, 11:56:21 PM

Quote from: wh on November 22, 2015, 10:09:55 PM
Dana Altman post game comments:

http://www.goducks.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ID=1194707

"Content Unavailable"

I took a screen shot of it and wanted to attach it to this post, but I can't see a way to do it.

wh · November 24, 2015, 12:33:55 AM

Quote from: StlVUFan on November 23, 2015, 11:56:21 PM
Quote from: wh on November 22, 2015, 10:09:55 PM
Dana Altman post game comments:

http://www.goducks.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ID=1194707
"Content Unavailable"

I took a screen shot of it and wanted to attach it to this post, but I can't see a way to do it.

! No longer available

agibson · November 24, 2015, 02:54:58 PM

Quote from: agibson on November 23, 2015, 04:10:35 PM(I find myself entertaining the idea of a road trip to Ball State over the weekend. Might not be much of a game... and a little crazy to consider making a whole day out of it with the family. But, I've gotten used to lots of Valpo basketball over Thanksgiving...)

Looks like it will be on ESPN3. Takes some of the incentive out of a road trip...