ESPN Bracketology

[VULB#62]

Let's look at from a glass half full and an HL perspective.  Valpo wins out and wins the tourney too. Is it possible that a second HL team gets an at-large because of the quality of our top 3?

[vu72]

unless Oregon State turns into a strong marquee win, Valpo does not get an at-large birth.

It may well be.  I watched them beat Cal last night and they looked terrific. OSU was ranked 52 in the Sagarins and beat #29 Cal so should easily move back into the top 50.  Valpo was at 39 so should move up as well. Bill Walton thinks OSU can contend for the Pac 12 title.  Rhody has a shot at the A10 title and Belmont will most likely win the Ohio Valley.  Iona will also most likely win their conference.  That is a pretty solid portfolio to be considered.

[oklahomamick]

Valparaiso, Monmouth chasing at-large possibilities for 2016 NCAA Tournament: Mid-Major Watch

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2016/01/valparaiso_monmouth_chasing_at.html

Only four of the top 10 teams from one-bid leagues listed in Monday's weekly RPIRatings have a strength of schedule inside the Top 100 -- No. 22 Monmouth (21 SOS), No. 44 Valparaiso (69), No. 47 Cal-Irvine (65) and No. 49 Cal-Santa Barbara (5). But all four play in leagues currently ranked No. 12 or worse among 32 Division I conferences. Last season only one mid-major conference in the top 12 failed to get an at-large team into the tournament field -- the Mid-American.

Valparaiso (11-3, 1-0) has no quality wins or bad losses, but plays in the Horizon League (No. 15) which currently has no other top 100 teams.   

South Dakota State's RPI is 35, but its SOS is a very tepid 160. The JackRabbits will have to run roughshod through the league to overcome that SOS and get into the at-large conversation. Yet playing in a top 12 league is a plus.   

[valpo84]

Although Elton Alexander does report on CSU, it is one of the least informed Writers about the HL.  To say we have no quality wins is lacking in even Low level college Basketball knowledge.  The Oregon State win is quality. Road wins versus Rhody is quality. Wins versus Belmont and Iona are quality.  At a minimum 1, maximum 4.  main point, we got some press in C-Town, which is hard with the Cavs rolling and the Browns roiling and taking up all the ink and airwaves.  Do not take anything Elton writes as worth much more than that. 

[covufan]

Let's look at from a glass half full and an HL perspective.  Valpo wins out and wins the tourney too. Is it possible that a second HL team gets an at-large because of the quality of our top 3?

No.  At least not this year. 

[oklahomamick]

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI. 

[a3uge]

Let's look at from a glass half full and an HL perspective.  Valpo wins out and wins the tourney too. Is it possible that a second HL team gets an at-large because of the quality of our top 3?

Doesn't work like that.

[a3uge]

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI.

The Summit this year is much like the MAC was last year - inflated due to easy scheduling. If Valpo ends with a similar RPI to South Dakota State (whom just lost to IUPUI), they'll favor Valpo because of their tougher OOC schedule and better wins. Their best win is Middle Tennessee State. Conference affiliation doesn't lift one team over another on Selection Sunday; if it did, Valpo wouldn't have been a 14 seed in 2013 while SD State in a crappy Summit was a 13.

[wh]

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI.

The Summit this year is much like the MAC was last year - inflated due to easy scheduling. If Valpo ends with a similar RPI to South Dakota State (whom just lost to IUPUI), they'll favor Valpo because of their tougher OOC schedule and better wins. Their best win is Middle Tennessee State. Conference affiliation doesn't lift one team over another on Selection Sunday; if it did, Valpo wouldn't have been a 14 seed in 2013 while SD State in a crappy Summit was a 13.

The bottom 4 teams in the HL have a combined record of 10-44 and combined RPI of 270. The bottom 4 teams in the SL are a combined 25-37 with a combined 170 RPI. That clearly explains the how the 2 leagues are positioned where they are right now.

The bottom line is that the bottom half of the Summit is continuing to improve over past years, while the teams in the bottom half of the Horizon are among the worst programs in D-1.

Give credit where credit is due. The SL is doing a great job of organically elevating it's standing. The Horizon is a league with a lot of dead weight and more problems than solutions.

[wh]

O

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI.

The Summit this year is much like the MAC was last year - inflated due to easy scheduling. If Valpo ends with a similar RPI to South Dakota State (whom just lost to IUPUI), they'll favor Valpo because of their tougher OOC schedule and better wins. Their best win is Middle Tennessee State. Conference affiliation doesn't lift one team over another on Selection Sunday; if it did, Valpo wouldn't have been a 14 seed in 2013 while SD State in a crappy Summit was a 13.

The bottom 4 teams in the HL have a combined record of 10-44 and combined RPI of 270. The bottom 4 teams in the SL are a combined 25-37 with a combined 170 RPI. That clearly explains the how the 2 leagues are positioned where they are right now.

The bottom line is that the bottom half of the Summit is continuing to improve over past years, while the teams in the bottom half of the Horizon are among the worst programs in D-1.

Give credit where credit is due. The SL is doing a great job of organically elevating it's standing. The Horizon is a league with a lot of dead weight and more problems than solutions.

By the way, I think BlackPantherUWM has a great idea that it's time for a select few HL teams to join forces and form a new conference with other good Midwest mid's.

[oklahomamick]

#11 seed vs. USC in Providence. 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

[StlVUFan]

Although Elton Alexander does report on CSU, it is one of the least informed Writers about the HL.  To say we have no quality wins is lacking in even Low level college Basketball knowledge.  The Oregon State win is quality. Road wins versus Rhody is quality. Wins versus Belmont and Iona are quality.  At a minimum 1, maximum 4.  main point, we got some press in C-Town, which is hard with the Cavs rolling and the Browns roiling and taking up all the ink and airwaves.  Do not take anything Elton writes as worth much more than that. 

I've been taking him that way for years myself.

Valparaiso, Monmouth chasing at-large possibilities for 2016 NCAA Tournament: Mid-Major Watch

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2016/01/valparaiso_monmouth_chasing_at.html

Only four of the top 10 teams from one-bid leagues listed in Monday's weekly RPIRatings have a strength of schedule inside the Top 100 -- No. 22 Monmouth (21 SOS), No. 44 Valparaiso (69), No. 47 Cal-Irvine (65) and No. 49 Cal-Santa Barbara (5). But all four play in leagues currently ranked No. 12 or worse among 32 Division I conferences. Last season only one mid-major conference in the top 12 failed to get an at-large team into the tournament field -- the Mid-American.

Valparaiso (11-3, 1-0) has no quality wins or bad losses, but plays in the Horizon League (No. 15) which currently has no other top 100 teams.   

South Dakota State's RPI is 35, but its SOS is a very tepid 160. The JackRabbits will have to run roughshod through the league to overcome that SOS and get into the at-large conversation. Yet playing in a top 12 league is a plus.   

Noticed the same thing.  I don't know what else to say about it, except that his coverage is mediocre at best.  Oregon isn't a quality win and Ball State isn't a bad loss??  Alrighty then...  

[VULB#62]

O

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI.

The Summit this year is much like the MAC was last year - inflated due to easy scheduling. If Valpo ends with a similar RPI to South Dakota State (whom just lost to IUPUI), they'll favor Valpo because of their tougher OOC schedule and better wins. Their best win is Middle Tennessee State. Conference affiliation doesn't lift one team over another on Selection Sunday; if it did, Valpo wouldn't have been a 14 seed in 2013 while SD State in a crappy Summit was a 13.

The bottom 4 teams in the HL have a combined record of 10-44 and combined RPI of 270. The bottom 4 teams in the SL are a combined 25-37 with a combined 170 RPI. That clearly explains the how the 2 leagues are positioned where they are right now.

The bottom line is that the bottom half of the Summit is continuing to improve over past years, while the teams in the bottom half of the Horizon are among the worst programs in D-1.

Give credit where credit is due. The SL is doing a great job of organically elevating it's standing. The Horizon is a league with a lot of dead weight and more problems than solutions.

By the way, I think BlackPantherUWM has a great idea that it's time for a select few HL teams to join forces and form a new conference with other good Midwest mid's.

WH, who might that be (on both sides of the proposed equation)?

The HL few:   
    Valpo (of course)
    UWM
    UWGB
    Detroit
    Wright State
    Oakland

Other Good MW Mid's:   
    Evansville
    Belmont
    Somebody
    Somebody else

Aside from EU and Belmont, I can't think of a good fit that isn't already solid in the A-10 or MVC. Is there a Summit school that could fit the bill (IPFW or IUPUI)?    :whiteflag:Help!

[wh]

O

The message I got from the article is that they perceive the summit to be better not only in RPI.

The Summit this year is much like the MAC was last year - inflated due to easy scheduling. If Valpo ends with a similar RPI to South Dakota State (whom just lost to IUPUI), they'll favor Valpo because of their tougher OOC schedule and better wins. Their best win is Middle Tennessee State. Conference affiliation doesn't lift one team over another on Selection Sunday; if it did, Valpo wouldn't have been a 14 seed in 2013 while SD State in a crappy Summit was a 13.

The bottom 4 teams in the HL have a combined record of 10-44 and combined RPI of 270. The bottom 4 teams in the SL are a combined 25-37 with a combined 170 RPI. That clearly explains the how the 2 leagues are positioned where they are right now.

The bottom line is that the bottom half of the Summit is continuing to improve over past years, while the teams in the bottom half of the Horizon are among the worst programs in D-1.

Give credit where credit is due. The SL is doing a great job of organically elevating it's standing. The Horizon is a league with a lot of dead weight and more problems than solutions.

By the way, I think BlackPantherUWM has a great idea that it's time for a select few HL teams to join forces and form a new conference with other good Midwest mid's.

WH, who might that be (on both sides of the proposed equation)?

The HL few:   
    Valpo (of course)
    UWM
    UWGB
    Detroit
    Wright State
    Oakland

Other Good MW Mid's:   
    Evansville
    Belmont
    Somebody
    Somebody else

Aside from EU and Belmont, I can't think of a good fit that isn't already solid in the A-10 or MVC. Is there a Summit school that could fit the bill (IPFW or IUPUI)?    :whiteflag:Help!

Here's Panther's suggestions from another thread:

Quote from: wh on January 04, 2016, 02:08:44 PM
If we were regularly a 2 or 3 bid league, then holding the tournament in Detroit's and Oakland's backyard (or anyone else's) would matter very little. Unfortunately, that's not the case. There is only 1 prize - 1 highly coveted, ultimate prize that separates 1 program from all the rest.

This being the case the HL tournament championship is simply too important to unfairly weigh it's outcome in favor of 2 programs "within walking distance" of the tournament venue.

It is time to move to a better league. I have a gut feeling our administration is thinking the same thing. We deserve better than membership in a declining 1-bid mid major league centered in Detroit Michigan.

The problem here is that there's nowhere to go. The MVC isn't going to 11 and I doubt they'd go 12. If Wichita State actually moves forward with that ridiculous football idea and leaves the MVC, there's your shot. But that's an if-and-only-if scenario. The Atlantic 10 is incredibly scattered and still has 14 teams.

However, I'll humor this discussion.

Perhaps the discussion should move away from which conference to move to. Perhaps the discussion should move towards looking for outside the box thinking. Here's my plan, if I'm the Milwaukee AD/Chancellor, on improving the conference:

Make one.

It's not such a crazy idea. There is precedence in the history of college sports, and there's a recent sort-of-example if you look outside basketball.

The latter example I'm referring to is the National Collegiate Hockey Conference, or NCHC. A few years ago, Penn State announced its move to NCAA D-I for ice hockey. This was incredibly important because up to that point, only five Big Ten schools played ice hockey (Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State). Once PSU added hockey, the Big Ten could field a conference. The Big Ten schools were divided among two conferences: Minnesota and UW in the WCHA, and OSU, U of M and MSU in the CCHA. All five schools joined PSU to create the B1G for hockey, which sounded like a death knell to the other conferences.

Except it wasn't. The best schools of the WCHA and CCHA got together and created the NCHC, a brand new league that got an automatic bid immediately to the NCAA hockey tournament. The leftovers of the CCHA folded into the WCHA, making what had been the WCHA and CCHA into the B1G, NCHC and WCHA.

Guess which conference was worst off? The Big Ten. They will build up eventually, but their hockey programs are split between national powers (Minny, UW, Mich) and also-rans (MSU kinda, OSU). The conference hasn't got its footing yet. The WCHA, made up of all the dregs, has been best or second best of the three conferences since the realignment happened.

In hoops, this has happened before, and it's happened in the midwest. The Great Midwest Conference, created in 1990, pulled schools from several different conferences to make a borderline high-major conference - Cincy and Memphis left the Metro, UAB left the Sun Belt, Marquette and Saint Louis left the MCC (Horizon), and DePaul, one of the last independents. Dayton joined in 93. In 1995, after a slew of more schools from different conferences joined up, the Midwest name no longer fit (lots of southern schools). They became Conference USA.
___________

Long story short, you can create a conference by taking the best of different leagues and running with them. I'd shoot for an 8-team League, but 10 would be all right and the most I would go for. These are the schools I would consider for such a conference:

Horizon: Valpo, Oakland, Wright State, Milwaukee. Those should all be for obvious reasons. In the next state budget round we'll get our advance money for the practice facility, a project that is said to cost about $13 million (better than the one Creighton just opened). Wright State already has the facilities, with a nice $9 million practice facility and still-solid Nutter Center. Valpo doesn't have the facilities but succeeds and can own it's metro area, which albeit small would be entirely yours if you had a solid conference. Oakland has a nice game facility and is a strong program, although I'd rank them 4th here because I think most of their success is due to Greg Kampe, and he's 60 years old. Besides these four? CSU leans entirely on students and no one has ever gone to games. YSU is YSU. NKU is too new to D-I for this conference. Detroit is a shadow of what they once were. UIC can't put anything together, but I'd rank them 5th in this scenario. GB has no room to grow their budget.

Summit: North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Oral Roberts, Denver. The latter exists in an air hub so travel isn't as expensive as flying most places and therefore they can be a bit far-flung. Oral Roberts is traditionally strong, but I do think their status as a bandit program would scare me away too much. NDSU and SDSU would be a package deal and IMO a strong package to take. They both have great facilities - in NDSU's case brand-new - and they absolutely own two states that are growing. Their football programs are profitable to their universities, which is more than can be said about most I-AA schools. They're strong publics. I don't think any other conference school is close or even worth mentioning.

Ohio Valley: Murray State, Belmont. You're talking about two schools that succeed and have done so for a long time. I'm not familiar with budgets, but I'm sure Belmont could stand to grow its budget for this new conference. Murray State owns its corner of Kentucky. Belmont's president doesn't believe the Horizon or MVC are strong enough brands to merit full membership. My guess is a brand new conference would change that. Morehead State may be successful, but I don't think I'd offer membership based on what Kenneth Faried did in school. Others are non-starters.

Atlantic 10: Dayton, Saint Louis. Both schools used to be in the Horizon League and got left behind in the major hoops-only shuffle. The thinking around Marquette was that they'd both get invited not long after the start of the Big East, but that hasn't happened yet. I believe the Big East thinking now is that 10 is a good enough number and there's no reason to keep adding. VCU and the east coast schools are too far; Duquesne is probably the only school I would consider, but they have no recent history and they're something of a bandit program (although not as brazen as Oral Roberts). Other schools are too far east or too crappy.

Missouri Valley: Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Illinois State, Missouri State, Loyola. I think the Ramblers' problems are the same as when they left us - yeah they have facilities, but the donor base is ancient and they have no recent success. They get you entry to the Chicago recruiting base, but so does Valpo/Milwaukee. Missouri State's gorgeous JQH Arena is a great facility and the basis for a good program. Illinois State covers a lot of that central Illinois ground and could be a strong addition. Northern Iowa and Wichita State are obvious picks; the question isn't would they be invited but rather would they accept?

Working just from those five conferences, you could build a pretty great 8 or 10 team league:

8 team: Milwaukee, Valpo, Murray State, Belmont, Dayton, SLU, Wichita, UNI. Obviously I'm biased in putting Milwaukee in there, but we're a couple years from breaking ground on a high-major practice facility, so you can see I'm not just paying lip service. Also the people in Milwaukee have come out for big regular season games - we had 6500 at a recent Valpo game, 7500 for Marquette, 8k for GB, 10k for Wisconsin...when students are surveyed and asked the question "why don't you come to games?", the most common answer is "level of competition in the arena." Of those teams, Valpo, SLU and UNI have brought over 6k fans to the Arena. If we had a conference full of those games, I think our attendance would skyrocket. Valpo may sell out the ARC all season.

That conference is also 4v4 Public vs Private. There's something like 35 NCAA Tournaments in the past 20 years there.

This is obviously just an exercise. I think booting YSU out of the conference in the summer rather than adding NKU would have been everything we needed for 2015-16. But WH has a point - something is wrong in this league. I just hope we can fix it before it all goes to hell.

[VULB#62]

Thx WH for adding Panther's "exercise." He ranges far and wide but has some good arguments.   I'm wondering about things like ....

Why Evansville was left out? They seem more likely to leave the MVC than the others mentioned.  Plus they are another private
Murray is in a scholarship football conference. Not likely.
The potential foot print would be crazier than the current Summit foot print
Detroit may be less than in the past but a better new league with them in it would float their boat along with the rest of us don't you think?
Even in this scenario, we took another hit on our facilities 
I wonder what they'd call this new conference 

[a3uge]

Thx WH for adding Panther's "exercise." He ranges far and wide but has some good arguments.   I'm wondering about things like ....

:- Why Evansville was left out? They seem more likely to leave the MVC than the others mentioned.  Plus they are another private
:- Murray is in a scholarship football conference. Not likely.
:- The potential foot print would be crazier than the current Summit foot print
:- Detroit may be less than in the past but a better new league with them in it would float their boat along with the rest of us don't you think?
:- Even in this scenario, we took another hit on our facilities 
:- I wonder what they'd call this new conference 

Evansville sucks at basketball. I still don't understand why people think academic performance is more important than athletic performance when it comes to athletic conferences. But that subject - beating a dead horse.

I just don't see the feasibility of this conference being formed. It still feels like a mid major conference, and the TV deal will be as such.

Wichita State
UNI
Murray State
Belmont
Valpo
Milwaukee
SLU
Dayton

I don't think SLU and Dayton are ever going to give up thinking they are Big East candidates. And in the mean time, they wouldn't leave the A10 to go laterally.

[vu72]

As long as we are wasting time, I'll throw out names for a great conference.  A bit spread out, but it seems to be working well.  The conference?  The Pioneer League.

The North Division

Valpo
Butler
Drake
Dayton
Marist

South Division

Jacksonville
Davidson
Campbell
Stetson
Morehead State

San Diego makes the tough choice to stay in their exiting conference. 

[usc4valpo]

Let's just say the latest ESPN bracketology is rather intriguing.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology

[wh]

I just don't see the feasibility of this conference being formed. It still feels like a mid major conference, and the TV deal will be as such.

Wichita State
UNI
Murray State
Belmont
Valpo
Milwaukee
SLU
Dayton

Are you serious?  This is a collection of the best mid majors in the mid west, if not the country. It would immediately be a better basketball conference than the A-10 and even the American Conference. It's all Midwest centric. It would be a multi-bid conference every year without failure. It would have a big time conference tournament that would rival the A-10's Brooklyn event. Our recruiting profile would improve dramatically.  3-stars would become the norm - not the exception. Valpo home games would immediately become a hot commodity. Finally, this conference would without a doubt garner interest in a revenue-generating, long term TV package with a major sports broadcasting company. For a small, private university that is Valpo, this would be hitting the lottery.

I should add this warning. Right now we are riding the 2nd of the 2 biggest highs we've ever had in our D-1 history. Everyone knows that we completely squandered a great opportunity to sustain the first wave by staying put in the pathetic Mid Con. There is no doubt in my mind that history WILL repeat itself if we don't proactively find a way to not only sustain the momentum we've built, but to build on it.

Butler's administration had the wisdom to recognize what they had and the strategic ability to act on it. Hopefully, Valpo's administration is up to same challenge. Otherwise, rest assured we will fall off the table again, probably beginning the day Bryce moves on.

18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.

24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. 'Master,' he said, 'I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.' 26 "His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 28 " 'Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents.

[talksalot]

Let's just say the latest ESPN bracketology is rather intriguing.

Valpo - North Florida in Round 3... in Providence, where we've had some luck this year...

[bbtds]

Honestly, if I were these collection of schools

Wichita State
UNI
Murray State
Belmont
Valpo
Milwaukee
SLU
Dayton

I would leave out Valpo and add Evansville. Valpo's board has made no commitment to athletic facilities while making many commitments to housing and academics. A very uneven spending history lately. It's why Valpo isn't currently in the MVC and playing a team like Illinois State twice per year. 

Take off the brown and gold glasses and really take a look.

[vu84v2]

I really like the creative thinking on forming a new conference if no other options are available, but I think that getting a strong enough conference (strong = best combination of quality teams and TV contract) would be very difficult. Additionally, while we may all love basketball the university presidents at many of these schools will consider all of the other sports and how realignment could impact them.

From a TV contract perspective, Murray State is very problematic (that school is more remote than many may realize). Northern Iowa gets Cedar Rapids but is going to lose the fight for attention with Iowa State and Iowa. Wichita State is interesting during the season for people in Wichita, Belmont and Valparaiso do not have a comparatively large alumni base, etc. Schools like this would indeed make a great conference, but I think that the best that you could do is to find a fledgling network that may only exist in some cable systems.

So I don't see any 'new conference' solution that would make things better (I should restate that this sort of creative thinking is needed). My guess for Valparaiso is that the best potential would be to have a tremendous regular season (get to Top 25) and then make a big statement in the NCAA tournament (Elite 8). Then, hopefully some great opportunities come up. Butler had its rapid rise because of their success AND lots of realignment at the same time.

If you don't get the MVC big dogs (Wichita State and Northern Iowa), I would doubt that the other MVS schools would leave.

Dayton and SLU will never leave the A10 unless it is to move up to the Big East (or similar). SLU has always had illusions of grandeur.

The Summit League schools: I just eliminate Oral Roberts for overall dislike. NDSU and SDSU are interesting and are schools with good enrollments, on campus stadiums, and money. I think the problem would be getting NDSU for a non-football conference, since I think NDSU will try to make a move to D1-A football and would seek the Mountain West (or a 'far away' conference just to get in or, in their dreams, the Big 12). I like Denver.

[vu84v2]

Honestly, if I were these collection of schools

Wichita State
UNI
Murray State
Belmont
Valpo
Milwaukee
SLU
Dayton

I would leave out Valpo and add Evansville. Valpo's board has made no commitment to athletic facilities while making many commitments to housing and academics. A very uneven spending history lately. It's why Valpo isn't currently in the MVC and playing a team like Illinois State twice per year. 

Take off the brown and gold glasses and really take a look.

Of the donors to Valparaiso, how many do you think would endorse spending tens of millions on new athletic facilities over building new dorms and academic facilities. They are making progress at Valparaiso, but there are a whole set of dorms that were built in the 50s and 60s. If you are a parent looking at a higher end university and you visit one of those dorms and told this is where Freshmen and Sophomores live, you are going to think twice about sending your kids to Valparaiso versus alternatives that have way better housing. That said, I will still argue that the expansion on the chapel and the welcome center were capital spends that should have been much lower in priority (and I don't buy the argument that those principle donors came in and demanded their money be used for those projects - especially the welcome center).

[bbtds]

Honestly, if I were these collection of schools

Wichita State
UNI
Murray State
Belmont
Valpo
Milwaukee
SLU
Dayton

I would leave out Valpo and add Evansville. Valpo's board has made no commitment to athletic facilities while making many commitments to housing and academics. A very uneven spending history lately. It's why Valpo isn't currently in the MVC and playing a team like Illinois State twice per year. 

Take off the brown and gold glasses and really take a look.

Of the donors to Valparaiso, how many do you think would endorse spending tens of millions on new athletic facilities over building new dorms and academic facilities. They are making progress at Valparaiso, but there are a whole set of dorms that were built in the 50s and 60s. If you are a parent looking at a higher end university and you visit one of those dorms and told this is where Freshmen and Sophomores live, you are going to think twice about sending your kids to Valparaiso versus alternatives that have way better housing. That said, I will still argue that the expansion on the chapel and the welcome center were capital spends that should have been much lower in priority (and I don't buy the argument that those principle donors came in and demanded their money be used for those projects - especially the welcome center).

And where has most of the money for Butler's latest facilities--both athletic and academic--come from?

[agibson]

That said, I will still argue that the expansion on the chapel and the welcome center were capital spends that should have been much lower in priority (and I don't buy the argument that those principle donors came in and demanded their money be used for those projects - especially the welcome center).

For the Chapel, it really wouldn't surprise me.  I don't know if other options were presented to the donors, but I well expect they approached the university looking to improve the Chapel.

I have much less intuition for the Welcome Center.

And, in general, I'm spitballing. I had no particular involvement with the Chapel addition, Helge Center, etc. I was at the dedication (with some others from the board!), and know some people who had greater involvement.