Game #14 - Home - UIC January 2, 2016

wh · January 04, 2016, 12:34:24 AM

When Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.

Of all the defenders and all the defenses, I will always remember something Dylan said, "You'll just have to wait until you win the league to appreciate it." And so after struggling and making steady improvement over 4 long seasons, we finally got to host in 11-12, hosted and won in '12-13 and hosted and won again in '14-15. And you know what? Life was good - just like our friends that had experienced it before us said it would be. How good? Several of our current players, including our 3-star players Alec and Derrik watched from the stands in the craziest atmosphere in mid major basketball as we won our first 2 conference tournament championships. Both called it an amazing experience and couldn't wait to be a part of it.

So, therein lies the problem. Like Butler before us, we have been able to build on our success through the benefits of the current format to where we have hosted 3 of the last 4 tournaments at the ARC. If not for the switch to Detroit, we would be favored to host again this year and very probably next year.

So, after establishing a system in 2002 designed to elevate and showcase Butler over everyone else only to have Butler leave the league for greener pastures, followed by a similar pattern forming at Valpo (which LeCrone has no personal allegiance to like he did Butler and Indy), he moves the tournament to Detroit.

So, why am I sharing all of this. For one it bothers me when 1 of our own fans says we've been "spoiled" by the benefits of the current format. Spoiled? Spoiled infers that you get things you haven't earned. When we came into the HL we were barely competitive. Homer worked tirelessly to build the program to where it became competitive and then Bryce worked tirelessly to get us over the top and keep us there. And they did it during the period that Butler owned the league and reaped all the benefits of being the king of the league. And they did it while having to overcome the recruiting obstacle of having what was considered by everyone as the worst venue in the league. Spoiled? Hardly!

Lastly, where are all the defenders of the old tournament format now? The ones that were telling us how the old format was the most creative tournament design in the history of college basketball. The one's whose university presidents all voted for the move to Detroit to hopefully make it easier for their programs to compete for a tournament championship without having to win the league first - something they just find too difficult to do these days.

zvillehaze · January 04, 2016, 08:52:08 AM

Quote from: wh on January 04, 2016, 12:34:24 AM
When Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.

I haven't commented much here, because it really doesn't impact me much anymore. With that said, I still think the "old" format is most beneficial for a league like the Horizon, for reasons I've discussed several times on this board. I know the Milwaukee guys were ticked with the change (and really ticked that their president allegedly voted in favor of change).

No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts.

sliman · January 04, 2016, 10:44:19 AM

Perhaps it's not too early for Valpo to begin working with city and area tourism/convention leaders to put together a bid to host the HL tournament when the Detroit contract expires. I have no idea how much money would be needed or what else might sweeten in the package, but at least we would show interest. Having a central site surely would bring more fans to the area than only hosting games beginning with the semi-finals and might expose additional people to the ease of reaching the beautiful tip of Lake Michigan and our proximity to Chicago.

StlVUFan · January 04, 2016, 11:42:33 AM

Quote from: wh on January 04, 2016, 12:34:24 AMWhen Valpo joined the HL in '07, many of us openly complained that the current format gave too big of an advantage to the top seed (home court plus double bye). Some of the most respected posters from other HL programs (Zville, BigDWSU, BigDUIC, BlackPantherUWM, GhostofDylan, 2 Detroit mainstays, etc.) came on our board numerous times and to a man unwaveringly defended it.

I'm pretty sure I was one of the complainers. I know our dear departed rlh was another.

Amazingly enough, I did love it when Valpo had it, and a part of me is disappointed that we won't have another shot at hosting this year, primed as we are.

My position on it remains the same. By the way, we were also complaining about the double-bye, and my position on being oppposed to that remains the same as well.

valpo64 · January 04, 2016, 12:10:17 PM

"wh" you hit the nail on the head...amen! brother. It is too bad Lacrone didn't leave when Butler did.

Valpower · January 04, 2016, 02:09:31 PM

Quote from: zvillehaze on January 04, 2016, 08:52:08 AM
I haven't commented much here, because it really doesn't impact me much anymore. With that said, I still think the "old" format is most beneficial for a league like the Horizon, for reasons I've discussed several times on this board. I know the Milwaukee guys were ticked with the change (and really ticked that their president allegedly voted in favor of change).

No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts.

The decline in NCAA tourney payouts is a product of the fact that there have been no serious tourney performers to fully develop after the loss of Butler. It's a process that takes time and, more importantly, takes momentum and I'm afraid the conference has nipped that in the bud. As wh pointed out, and as seems obvious to all, hosting the tournament is a powerful way to improve recruiting. And year-over-year improvements in overall recruiting, the kind that make you deep at EVERY position, not the occasional "stud" here and there, are the only way mid-majors (especially high-turnover ones) can garner at-large berths and play deeper and deeper into the tourney.

It is a sad and difficult world for those who couldn't fill the void left by Butler when they had the chance, but voting to change the championship to a fixed venue in the hometown of two of the conference's teams will do little to boost the game-time chances of the non-Detroit teams and even less to their long-term prospects. Even if it results in no game-time advantage to the two Detroit teams, the fact that recruits from areas outside of Detroit will have to travel to see their teams play in the championship will have a chilling effect on recruiting parity and diversity for the league. The Horizon League is NOT a good enough conference to get away with not rewarding their highest performing team. There will be mediocrity, defections, and no financial gain overall.

vu84v2 · January 04, 2016, 04:48:48 PM

I would strongly defend the old format and, even before Valpo became dominant in the conference, thought that it was the best format in the country. The regular season conference champion should be heavily rewarded for the best performance over 18 games. This is far more important than some additional sponsors in a fixed annual location and, consistent with other posters, creates a greater potential for consistently poor performance in the NCAA tourney.

Consider these alternatives. (1) Valpo and Oakland battle it out in the regular season to determine the host...where every game matters, (2) Valpo and Oakland play with the foregone conclusion of it being in Detroit anyway. The value is all in the first alternative and that doesn't even consider that Detroit and Milwaukee will also have very competitive teams.

StlVUFan · January 04, 2016, 07:29:04 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 04, 2016, 04:48:48 PMConsider these alternatives. (1) Valpo and Oakland battle it out in the regular season to determine the host...where every game matters, (2) Valpo and Oakland play with the foregone conclusion of it being in Detroit anyway. The value is all in the first alternative and that doesn't even consider that Detroit and Milwaukee will also have very competitive teams.

I have indeed conceded this point. That's the one plus I see with the double-bye concept. It doesn't really change my mind overall, but I do recognize the value.

talksalot · January 04, 2016, 08:14:45 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2016, 07:29:04 PM(1) Valpo and Oakland

.... Valpo and Youngstown State...Battle it out...

sorry... just enjoyed the end of that game. YST shot lights out! 16 of 32 from 3pt range....
Guins got more rebounds including 15 offense boards, only committed 10 turnovers...

Oakland 13-27 from 3pt range.

CBSSports site has the score wrong... it was 100-98, not 102-98.

vu84v2 · January 05, 2016, 01:25:39 PM

Never thought of Youngstown State and Valpo battling it out, but that was a pretty wild game (saw the highlights on Sportscenter after getting home from the other wild game last night).

It is certainly a lesson in needing to play consistent winning basketball and that any D1 team can rise up on any given night.

usc4valpo · January 05, 2016, 04:45:09 PM

wow, UIC is a bad enigma. They played some teams very well but look pathetic in others.

Chicago college basketball is still in a sad state, especially with all the local talent in Chicago.

circle70 · January 08, 2016, 12:23:23 PM

Quote from: zvillehaze on January 04, 2016, 08:52:08 AM

No idea why schools would now vote in favor of the change, but assume the allure of guaranteed money from the organizers was attractive, especially with the HL's decline in NCAA tourney payouts. [/b]

As one who has no dog in the fight (UIC will not be in the chase anytime soon), I'll throw my $.02 in on this. I think the main reason for the format change is to escape the "small time conference" stigma and to follow the format of the major conferences.

The problem: the Horizon League IS just a mid-major conference that is not getting any better. In fact, it's getting worse (2 schools with 300+ RPI, only one in top 100). We cannot compete with the "big boys" on any level, so why are we trying to emulate their tournament format?

The old format should have been left alone.

StlVUFan · January 08, 2016, 09:57:21 PM

Quote from: circle70 on January 08, 2016, 12:23:23 PMThe problem: the Horizon League IS just a mid-major conference that is not getting any better. In fact, it's getting worse (2 schools with 300+ RPI, only one in top 100). We cannot compete with the "big boys" on any level, so why are we trying to emulate their tournament format?

That was precisely the point I tried to make recently. You can't just wish yourself into a higher level.

Well done, circle70