Valpo Horizon League rivalries?

[agibson]

By all means reply to Paul on twitter
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[tweet]693126009323966464[/tweet]

But, this seems like a better place for a discussion.  Do we have a rival?  More than one?

[oklahomamick]

Belmont is not an option?  I wish it was Belmont and it could be Belmont.  Over the past 5 years Belmont would have been the team to knock us out if in the HL. 

I don't feel like there's a rivalry but If I had to choose it would be Detroit or Oakland.  Detroit because we are both private and good at the same time.  Always remember Jr and the rest of his AAU buddies beating us in the HL championship.  Only consideration for Oakland is because they put a huge target on us.   

[vu84v2]

I believe that rival can be defined on several different levels. I think that three are most appropriate: history, geography, competitiveness. To have a rival, you must be very very strong on one level or reasonably strong on all three levels. I would argue that Valpo does not have a strong rival on any one level and does not have a sufficiently strong rival across all three levels. Thus, my opinion is that Valpo does not have a rival.

[govalpogo]

We've gotten close at certain times to having a new HL rival after Butler's departure.  Milwaukee on some occasions felt like it could be something, Detroit a couple of years ago (even made it into ESPN rivalry week one time?)  Oakland has the competitiveness and history aspects as the HL stands so I guess that would be my vote if I had to choose. 

In my opinion, Butler will always have that true rival spot, I'll never forget Lloyd missing those FT's on ESPN my freshman year and then finally getting to see Valpo put up a W in OT at the ARC as a senior. 

[talksalot]

I said Green Bay and Oakland... but I really had nothing to go on for the UDM/CSU/GBAY/MILW...I guess I just like beating Green Bay after having them run it up on us a few years ago at their arena....could say the same thing for McCallum... but that was Junior and he's gone.

[Kyle321n]

I voted Oakland because that's obvious. I voted Detroit, because beating Ray Sr. is just as great as beating Jr. especially after he kept the starters in the final minutes of the championship game.

[Pgmado]

Twitter doesn't allow you to have more than four options. I listed the schools alphabetically, hoping people would only vote in one. No worries. I wasn't intentionally dividing the groups of teams.

[Kyle321n]

Twitter doesn't allow you to have more than four options. I listed the schools alphabetically, hoping people would only vote in one. No worries. I wasn't intentionally dividing the groups of teams.

You could take the top 2 from each group and have us vote in a final rival of all rivals. Because I consider both Oakland and Detroit our rivals, but Oakland is #1

[a3uge]

Twitter doesn't allow you to have more than four options. I listed the schools alphabetically, hoping people would only vote in one. No worries. I wasn't intentionally dividing the groups of teams.

I wanted to see the results so I voted in both.

[agibson]

Twitter doesn't allow you to have more than four options. I listed the schools alphabetically, hoping people would only vote in one. No worries. I wasn't intentionally dividing the groups of teams.

I wanted to see the results so I voted in both.

I saw that everybody else was doing it, so figured "pick one of eight" was already spoiled, and voted for both.

[a3uge]

Also, I voted for Detroit for the vandalism and for ruining our tournament run when everyone had the flu. Stupid 15 seed.

[vu72]

We've gotten close at certain times to having a new HL rival after Butler's departure.  Milwaukee on some occasions felt like it could be something, Detroit a couple of years ago (even made it into ESPN rivalry week one time?)  Oakland has the competitiveness and history aspects as the HL stands so I guess that would be my vote if I had to choose. 

In my opinion, Butler will always have that true rival spot, I'll never forget Lloyd missing those FT's on ESPN my freshman year and then finally getting to see Valpo put up a W in OT at the ARC as a senior. 

Agreed.  Part of it is the fact that we have played them since 1934 while others, like CSU or Milwaukee didn't start playing until the late 70's.  An interesting bit of trivia: Which team from the Horizon or Butler was the first to play Valpo on the hardwood?  Well, it isn't Butler, it's Detroit!  First game played was in 1920 in only our 4th year playing the sport.

[78crusader]

Butler is the obvious choice, but I think Evansville should be mentioned.  We were members together in the old ICC, a very underrated basketball conference from 1950 to the mid-1970s.  I would like to see us play them every year. 

There has been some talk on the board of the A-10 conference.  Maybe some folks know something I don't know.  I question whether an affiliation with this conference would generate any more interest in VU basketball, or produce the natural league rivalry that we current lack in the Horizon.  I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. 

Paul

[StlVUFan]

1.  Oakland
2.  Milwaukee
3.  Wright State
4.  Green Bay

[oklahomamick]

Butler is the obvious choice, but I think Evansville should be mentioned.  We were members together in the old ICC, a very underrated basketball conference from 1950 to the mid-1970s.  I would like to see us play them every year. There has been some talk on the board of the A-10 conference.  Maybe some folks know something I don't know.  I question whether an affiliation with this conference would generate any more interest in VU basketball, or produce the natural league rivalry that we current lack in the Horizon.  I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. Paul

who and where are they talking about valpo and the a10?

[a3uge]

 "Horizon League Rivalries"

A10 and Evansville.

[justducky]

Butler is the obvious choice, but I think Evansville should be mentioned.  We were members together in the old ICC, a very underrated basketball conference from 1950 to the mid-1970s.  I would like to see us play them every year. 

Evansville, Ball St, and Indiana St all have a comfortable old shoe appeal, but Butler has discarded nearly its entire rack of old shoes. Its a shame that we hit their dumpster right after Bryce got this program resoled.     

     

I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. 

I do not live in Valparaiso but count me among those 49 of 50 who struggle spelling Duquesne. As for Fordham I not only do not know where it is I also do not care!   

[VULB#62]

84v2 did a pretty good job of defining rivalry criteria:  long history, geographic proximity, intense competitiveness (I.e., not one-sided). I would add one more: intense dislike or deep respect.   

Back in the old ICC days Butler and Evansville certainly fit all four.  I'd even throw in DePauw but to a lesser degree.  And those relationships stretched across all sports with basketball and football being the biggies.  I did not follow Valpo at all during the Mid-Con era, so I can't comment on those schools or any rivalry relationships. I came back to following Valpo when we joined the HL and was glad to see us playing Butler again.  But Butler left.  So did Loyola, who, if they could have been consistent winners, might have gone into rival status. So I look at what's left in the HL, and I honestly can't identify any one school that meets the four criteria and evokes the emotions necessary to qualify as a true rival.

I could see us resuming some sort of rivalry with E'ville and even ISU if we were invited to join the MVC. I don't see any potential for a rivalry if we were somehow to join the A-10 as none of the criteria would apply.

I would add one personal observation, that being that it is sad that we haven't been able to maintain a long-term rivalry over the years. Maybe it's all the shifting and realignment that is occurring in D-I sports and we just have to live with it. But I miss a good old fashioned rivalry.

[bbtds]

There has been some talk on the board of the A-10 conference.  Maybe some folks know something I don't know.  I question whether an affiliation with this conference would generate any more interest in VU basketball, or produce the natural league rivalry that we current lack in the Horizon.  I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. 

Paul

That brings up a good question. If Valpo could choose any conference in Div. I NCAA to be a member which conference would bring more fans into the ARC than the Horizon League? Is there really another conference that would bring in more fans than the HL?

[a3uge]

There has been some talk on the board of the A-10 conference.  Maybe some folks know something I don't know.  I question whether an affiliation with this conference would generate any more interest in VU basketball, or produce the natural league rivalry that we current lack in the Horizon.  I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. 

Paul

That brings up a good question. If Valpo could choose any conference in Div. I NCAA to be a member which conference would bring more fans into the ARC than the Horizon League? Is there really another conference that would bring in more fans than the HL?

The Big 10 probably would.

[VULB#62]

There has been some talk on the board of the A-10 conference.  Maybe some folks know something I don't know.  I question whether an affiliation with this conference would generate any more interest in VU basketball, or produce the natural league rivalry that we current lack in the Horizon.  I doubt more than 1 in 50 people in Valparaiso could even spell Duquesne or know where Fordham is located. 

Paul

That brings up a good question. If Valpo could choose any conference in Div. I NCAA to be a member which conference would bring more fans into the ARC than the Horizon League? Is there really another conference that would bring in more fans than the HL?

Certainly the name recognition of many of the A-10 schools is higher across the country than the HL schools. Mere association with these national institutions would create some increase in draw if only for curiosity initially. But to increase attendance, NW Indiana would have to have an increased VU billboard presence on the major interstates, more press coverage that treats VU as the big player in the region (and maybe A-10 membership might force that)  as well as improvements in the fan experience at the ARC that projects a big time college atmoshere.

[a3uge]

I'm not sure Butler fans ever considered Valpo a big rival. Valpo won't have a rival until another team starts consistently competing at the top of the league. Valpo has been near the top of the league in 5 of the past 6 seasons. Nobody else has really been able to sustain legitimate success, in and out of conference in that period.

[crusaderjoe]

Valpo should have at least one rival in this conference given that VU was a charter member of the Mid-Con/AMCU-8 with UWGB, UIC, and CSU, because we've played those schools more than anyone from a conference standpoint going back to the early 80's, IIRC.  The problem though is that Valpo was a very mediocre to bad basketball program during its time in the Mid Con until about a year or two before the 1994 exodus, so any previous conference relationships that were "renewed" when VU joined the HL never really got a chance to materialize to rivalry status in the first place.  It is kind of odd that Valpo really has no true rival in a conference where it was previously conference mates at some point in time with eight of the ten members in its current conference.  If I were to vote, I'd probably tally one for Milwaukee.

[historyman]

Is there really another conference that would bring in more fans than the HL?

So the answer to the question is the Big Ten.

Valpo is not getting into the Big Ten anytime soon so the fans ought to just make the best of it and hope to increase attendance in small amounts each year through a sustained effort each year to keep strengthening the team by recruiting guys like Alec, Jubril, Keith, Shane, Vashil, etc. and stop complaining about how poor the conference is. We're in the HL and the MVC, A-10 and other conferences, with the exception of the Big Ten, are not going to increase the attendance to any significant amount. Let's just keep winning the Horizon and dominate the conference as much as humanly possible. There is no real solution until a truly better conference opportunity comes along that guarantees increased attendance like the Big Ten would such as a mid-west conference made up of private schools---Marquette, Notre Dame, Dayton, Saint Louis, Evansville, Butler, Detroit, etc.

[Valpo89]

Here's my question: Is Valpo THAT good, or is the rest of the Horizon League simply horrible this year?
I think it's a combination of both. Even the top teams other than Valpo - Oakland, Wright State, Milwaukee and possibly Green Bay - are not as strong as they have been in the past.
UIC and Youngstown are simply awful.
Detroit is bad. Cleveland State is worse.
Northern Kentucky, maybe on its way at some point.
Seriously, none of the teams in the Horizon strike fear in the hearts of anyone. I think it's a down year for the league.