Valpo Horizon League rivalries?

[historyman]

Here's my question: Is Valpo THAT good, or is the rest of the Horizon League simply horrible this year?
I think it's a combination of both. Even the top teams other than Valpo - Oakland, Wright State, Milwaukee and possibly Green Bay - are not as strong as they have been in the past.
UIC and Youngstown are simply awful.
Detroit is bad. Cleveland State is worse.
Northern Kentucky, maybe on its way at some point.
Seriously, none of the teams in the Horizon strike fear in the hearts of anyone. I think it's a down year for the league.

I would say as much as Green Bay and Cleve State are down that is how much Valpo is better than in past years. Valpo is not at the point of separation from the rest of the HL that Butler was during their runs to the National Championship games in 2010 and 2011.

[oklahomamick]

Here's my question: Is Valpo THAT good, or is the rest of the Horizon League simply horrible this year? I think it's a combination of both. Even the top teams other than Valpo - Oakland, Wright State, Milwaukee and possibly Green Bay - are not as strong as they have been in the past. UIC and Youngstown are simply awful. Detroit is bad. Cleveland State is worse. Northern Kentucky, maybe on its way at some point. Seriously, none of the teams in the Horizon strike fear in the hearts of anyone. I think it's a down year for the league.

I would say as much as Green Bay and Cleve State are down that is how much Valpo is better than in past years. Valpo is not at the point of separation from the rest of the HL that Butler was during their runs to the National Championship games in 2010 and 2011.

Yes, Butler ran away from the HL in 2010 but their 2011 runner up national championship found them in a 3 way tie for 1st in the HL and Valpo 1 game behind......

[oklahomamick]

The MVC has more Indiana schools and private schools.  Also more towns similar to Valpo.  Being in a conference with schools that you don't have much in common, it's difficult to have a rivalry. 

In the mid-con days, I would diffidently say that ORU was a rival (not because I grew up in Tulsa but graduated from VU) but we always had trouble beating them in Tulsa.  Even the year of the sweet 16, we lost in Tulsa.  Not only basketball but all sports were considered a rival. 

[Kyle321n]

The MVC also has an average stadium capacity of double the ARC. The Gentile Center is comparable to us in size, but really how does our gym compare to this...



While it'll be nice to be in a conference where we are similar to the other schools (private, religious institutions with non D1 football) we aren't currently constructed facility-wise like the other schools.

[a3uge]

The biggest rivalry in D1 basketball is between a large public school and a private school. We had a slight rivalry with UDM because they were briefly good and their fans vandalized apartments near campus. It didn't have anything to do with the makeup of their school.

[VULB#62]

The MVC also has an average stadium capacity of double the ARC. The Gentile Center is comparable to us in size, but really how does our gym compare to this...



While it'll be nice to be in a conference where we are similar to the other schools (private, religious institutions with non D1 football) we aren't currently constructed facility-wise like the other schools.

Interesting.  Note the Horizon logo in the free throw lanes   

Also note the absence of banners 

[oklahomamick]

The MVC also has an average stadium capacity of double the ARC. The Gentile Center is comparable to us in size, but really how does our gym compare to this... [Img]http://www.scb.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_780_580/adaptive-image/public/8812-48_10105AJS_0.jpg While it'll be nice to be in a conference where we are similar to the other schools (private, religious institutions with non D1 football) we aren't currently constructed facility-wise like the other schools.

Interesting.  Note the Horizon logo in the free throw lanes    Also note the absence of banners 

Looks like NKU's stadium....  MVC chose Loyola because of the large alumni base and roots in Chicago.  We all agree and know that MVC was not impressed with our facilities when they visited a couple of summers ago. 

Would you rather have a large stadium barely full or a full smaller more intimate stadium?  But this has been discussed on here before. 

[agibson]

Also note the absence of banners 

Their national champion banner  must have been out of frame.

[VULB#62]

Yes, it must have been.   

Incidentally, your reminder made me check on all the banners that must have also been out of frame.

In addition to the 1963 national championship won 53 years ago, here's what Wki has for titles:

NCAA Appearances: 1963, 64, 66, 68, and 85

Horizon regular season championships:  1980, 83, 85, 87

Horizon tournament championship: 1985

[vu72]

The MVC also has an average stadium capacity of double the ARC. The Gentile Center is comparable to us in size, but really how does our gym compare to this...



While it'll be nice to be in a conference where we are similar to the other schools (private, religious institutions with non D1 football) we aren't currently constructed facility-wise like the other schools.

I think Loyola is the only religious school in the conference.  If you take a look at the A-10, you will find a much better fit both private/public as well a facilities.  We've covered this before.

[a3uge]

The MVC also has an average stadium capacity of double the ARC. The Gentile Center is comparable to us in size, but really how does our gym compare to this...



While it'll be nice to be in a conference where we are similar to the other schools (private, religious institutions with non D1 football) we aren't currently constructed facility-wise like the other schools.

I think Loyola is the only religious school in the conference.  If you take a look at the A-10, you will find a much better fit both private/public as well a facilities.  We've covered this before.

And still, none of this has remotely anything to do with rivalries.

[VULB#62]

It kinda does from a cuddah, shuddah, maybe perspective. Think about it. Private , religious affiliated, within 50 miles. With the exception of football we competed in all sports and it was generally competitive across all sports.  Granted DePaul would have been a natural one for Loyola, but...... they  never seemed to want that to happen.

Plus, every year we could have reenacted the Reformation 

[atkins]

Valpo is not getting into the Big Ten anytime soon so the fans ought to just make the best of it and hope to increase attendance in . There is no real solution until a truly better conference opportunity comes along that guarantees increased attendance like the Big Ten would such as a mid-west conference made up of private schools---Marquette, Notre Dame, Dayton, Saint Louis, Evansville, Butler, Detroit, etc.

That Midwestern lineup would be great. I would love to see us in the MVC or A-10.  The reputation of both conferences is miles ahead of our current conference.  I particularly like the A-10, but we, like SLU, are far from the Atlantic.  Regardless, are we not a good fit in our current conference. 

[VULB#62]

Valpo is not getting into the Big Ten anytime soon so the fans ought to just make the best of it and hope to increase attendance in . There is no real solution until a truly better conference opportunity comes along that guarantees increased attendance like the Big Ten would such as a mid-west conference made up of private schools---Marquette, Notre Dame, Dayton, Saint Louis, Evansville, Butler, Detroit, etc.

That Midwestern lineup would be great. I would love to see us in the MVC or A-10.  The reputation of both conferences is miles ahead of our current conference.  I particularly like the A-10, but we, like SLU, are far from the Atlantic.  Regardless, are we are not a good fit in our current conference.

Damn.  Spot on.
In a few short years we have risen to the top and have stayed there in the HL (Thanks for getting us here MLB).  Doesn't that say something to whomever that we should be competing in a conference that is a level above the HL?

I just wish the university would recognize this and make a major commitment to being a real player in this, because that is what we have become. We are a NATIONAL name in college basketball. Thank you Bryce Drew. Thank you Homer Drew.  It would be a shame to waste the opportunity that we have been presented.

[bbtds]

The MVC has more Indiana schools and private schools.  Also more towns similar to Valpo.  Being in a conference with schools that you don't have much in common, it's difficult to have a rivalry. 

In this case historyman is correct. It won't bring a significantly larger crowd to the ARC. We are the fans. The bandwagon fans will jump on but unless we somehow make it to the Big Ten there is no reason to even expand the ARC. It can still be upgraded but no need for an increase in number of seats.

[oklahomamick]

I wonder our many alumni live in Porter County.  Unlike a lot of conference foes, a good percent of our alumni do not live near the University.  Actually, most small private division I schools are located in large cities.  Valpo is unique in that case and I suggest this is a reason for low attendance. 


But we are getting away from "HL rival" topic.

[talksalot]

Let me throw another twist... could the rivalry also consist of "schools where our current students applied... but decided not to attend?"

I'll bet a lot of our student body applied to both Butler and Valpo... and chose Valpo.   (I didn't apply to that Indy school but, I do like beating Ball State !!)

[Pgmado]

Let me throw another twist... could the rivalry also consist of "schools where our current students applied... but decided not to attend?"

Augustana! Concordia Wisconsin! Concordia Seward!

BRING THEM ON!!!

[historyman]

Some have mentioned that changing conferences has nothing to do with HL rivalries but I think this makes a good argument for changing conferences. Again I don't think that the MVC and the A-10 are good answers for change of conference. Maybe better than the Horizon but not the real answer. A midwest private religious schools conference with some majors and some mid-majors is the real answer. This will take some real leadership on the part of some presidents and administrators in the midwest to get this to work. In the meantime Valpo needs to get their facilities upgraded as quickly as possible so they are not passed over again by a better conference.


Butler, DePaul, Evansville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Loyola, Detroit, Dayton, Xavier, and others are all possibilities.

[oklahomamick]

lose Notre Dame (football) and add St. Louis

[oklahomamick]

Basically we are not competing for the same students as our conference foes?  We are not recruiting against them. 

[talksalot]

and I'm not the only one old enough to remember the great rivalry we have had over the years with St Joe's Pumas...now THAT was a rivalry for decades in the days of the ICC...

[a3uge]

Some have mentioned that changing conferences has nothing to do with HL rivalries but I think this makes a good argument for changing conferences. Again I don't think that the MVC and the A-10 are good answers for change of conference. Maybe better than the Horizon but not the real answer. A midwest private religious schools conference with some majors and some mid-majors is the real answer. This will take some real leadership on the part of some presidents and administrators in the midwest to get this to work. In the meantime Valpo needs to get their facilities upgraded as quickly as possible so they are not passed over again by a better conference.


Butler, DePaul, Evansville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Loyola, Detroit, Dayton, Xavier, and others are all possibilities.

You think it's possible Butler, Marquette, and Xavier leave the Big East and Notre Dame the ACC to form a conference with Detroit-Mercy, Evansville, and Loyola?

[humbleopinion]

and I'm not the only one old enough to remember the great rivalry we have had over the years with St Joe's Pumas...now THAT was a rivalry for decades in the days of the ICC...

I thought of St. Joe's immediately.  We need a rival willing to steal our victory bell.

[historyman]

lose Notre Dame (football) and add St. Louis

Actually Saint Louis. The school hates to be mixed up with the pro teams in the city under the Gateway Arch.