Where does this years HL rank compared to other HL years

[oklahomamick]

The Horizon again dropped Conference RPI slot.  HL falls to 18th, behind the Sunbelt (NKU old stomping ground) Valpo is #37. Bracketology has us as a #11. Second is Oakland, #140. (Oakland is back by the way of a Wisconsin sweep) If we win the conference tournament, the HL may not get an NIT bid.  Oh and one of our teams finally picked up its 1st DI victory making them the second worst RPI in the nation. 

[talksalot]

Nolan's RPI gives the FlameOuts more credit that you are!

Illinois-Chicago           1   18      0.3484   348   SOS RANKING   268      
Florida A&M              4    15      0.3473   349   SOS RANKING   348      
Prairie View A&M       1    20      0.3472   350   SOS RANKING   282      
Central Connecticut   3   19      0.3275   351   SOS RANKING   349      


and that SOS will go up with the Valpo game tomorrow....

[FWalum]

The Horizon again dropped Conference RPI slot.  HL falls to 18th, behind the Sunbelt (NKU old stomping ground) Valpo is #37. Bracketology has us as a #11. Second is Oakland, #140. (Oakland is back by the way of a Wisconsin sweep) If we win the conference tournament, the HL may not get an NIT bid.  Oh and one of our teams finally picked up its 1st DI victory making them the second worst RPI in the nation. 

While things have improved slightly for us since this post, it is still a disgrace that this conferences RPI is at #18    Summit League #11... and in my opinion poised to maintain or rise in the near future.  There had better be a lot of gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair in the HL headquarters, because this has turned into a disaster after the Butler departure.

[vu72]

The Horizon again dropped Conference RPI slot.  HL falls to 18th, behind the Sunbelt (NKU old stomping ground) Valpo is #37. Bracketology has us as a #11. Second is Oakland, #140. (Oakland is back by the way of a Wisconsin sweep) If we win the conference tournament, the HL may not get an NIT bid.  Oh and one of our teams finally picked up its 1st DI victory making them the second worst RPI in the nation. 

While things have improved slightly for us since this post, it is still a disgrace that this conferences RPI is at #18    Summit League #11... and in my opinion poised to maintain or rise in the near future.  There had better be a lot of gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair in the HL headquarters, because this has turned into a disaster after the Butler departure.

I totally agree with FWalum.  I just looked at the Sagarin rankings since Butler left the conference which was 3 years plus this current season.

Our frustration, I believe, comes from the fact that as we have improved, the conference has regressed.  It also matches the time period since a kid named Alec Peters has been on campus.  Here are the Sagarin numbers:

Season                       Valpo Ranking               Horizon           Summit

2015-2016                                                      39                                                   17                                        16
2014-2015                                                      68                                                   17                                        20
2013-2014                                                     171                                                  13                                        16
2012-2013                                                      65                                                   12                                        24

As you can see, as our ranking improved the conference has declined.  If we weren't a part of the Horizon that 17 would be worse.  At the same time, and in spite of losing Oakland, the Summit ranking continues to improve to a point where they are now ranked a head of the Horizon. Serious thought needs to be put in to why this has occurred.

[Kyle321n]

I'm a big believer in KenPom (You don't say!  ) so I like to look at where the league was historically on there.

Year	KenPom	Best KenPom Team
2007	10th	Butler (19)
2008	11th	Butler (19)
2009	11th	Butler (40)
2010	12th	Butler (9)
2011	10th	Butler (33)
2012	13th	Cleveland St. (86)
2013	12th	Valparaiso (63)
2014	12th	Green Bay (75)
2015	16th	Valparaiso (61)
2016	17th	Valparaiso (23)

A few notes on some of these:
-2012 was a weird year. The HL had only 1 team better than 100. The average KenPom was 170. 2015's average KenPom? 170. Yet we were 4 spots worse.
-It sucks that this year has been so down for the league. In 2010, we had 5 teams better than 125. This year we have 2. In 2009, 4 teams were better than 100.
-The bottom of the league has always been pretty bad, but this year is historic. We've had 1 team under 290 in the past 8 years. We have of 2 them right now. We've got a team at 343 out of 351!
-Last year we had 3 teams in the top 100! I know graduation and transfers happen but those teams are 137 and 295 this season.
-Oddly our Efficiency rating is the highest it's ever been and the league has never shot better from 3P range.
-22% of the league games have been blowouts, by far the highest. Previous high was 16.7%
-Our home winning % is 54.7%. It's the second lowest after 2014 (54.2%). That makes what we and Wright St. are doing so amazing being a combined 11-0. The rest of the league is 18-24 at home.

[a3uge]

I don't think the league is doomed for the future, and the Summit won't overtake the Horizon. The Horizon had two coaches leave, plus a transitioning D1 team enter (still contend that it was a good move, but 1 year too early). Cleveland State had two surprise departures that left their program in shambles. It's clear to see why this is a down year for everyone sans Valpo.

With that being said, what the hell Oakland? The 2nd best team in conference and you only have a 133 RPI? That's 16 seed territory. There's no chance of the NIT there either. You received pre-season #1 votes ahead of Valpo's best team ever, and you could only manage a 96 OOC RPI... And then you lose to YSU and NKU at HOME!?

Detroit? Picked 3rd in conference and one 1st place vote and you're now at 218 in RPI. A losing record OOC and YSU is ahead of you!

Milwaukee? 157 RPI - no APR excuse this year. You beat Wisconsin on the road OOC and can't break the top 100 RPI from the rest of the games? Losing to South Dakota at home...

Wright State? Are you just the unluckiest team on the planet? Every year, your conference slate is excused away by injuries, but are above .500 in conference. When will you pull it back together and consistently be a top 100 RPI team?

And of course YSU. 'Nuff said.

[wh]

I don't think the league is doomed for the future, and the Summit won't overtake the Horizon. The Horizon had two coaches leave, plus a transitioning D1 team enter (still contend that it was a good move, but 1 year too early).

Only a year ago the Summit League had 4 1st year coaches - basically half the league. A year later, they're nearly a top 10 league. Two points come to mind - (1) change does not have to become an excuse for failure, and (2) the SL will remain above the HL for the forseeable future.

[a3uge]

I don't think the league is doomed for the future, and the Summit won't overtake the Horizon. The Horizon had two coaches leave, plus a transitioning D1 team enter (still contend that it was a good move, but 1 year too early).

Only a year ago the Summit League had 4 1st year coaches - basically half the league. A year later, they're nearly a top 10 league. Two points come to mind - (1) change does not have to become an excuse for failure, and (2) the SL will remain above the HL for the forseeable future.

No, they won't. South Dakota State is their best team and their best win is Middle Tennessee. 2nd best team is IPFW. The Summit will send a 13-14 seed to the tournament, and won't win a game. The teams currently in the Summit have won a total of 1 game in the NCAA tournament. Their budgets are pathetic and if any team were to become consistently decent, they'd be snatched up by a better league.

Screw the Summit.

[wh]

I don't think the league is doomed for the future, and the Summit won't overtake the Horizon. The Horizon had two coaches leave, plus a transitioning D1 team enter (still contend that it was a good move, but 1 year too early).

Only a year ago the Summit League had 4 1st year coaches - basically half the league. A year later, they're nearly a top 10 league. Two points come to mind - (1) change does not have to become an excuse for failure, and (2) the SL will remain above the HL for the forseeable future.

No, they won't. South Dakota State is their best team and their best win is Middle Tennessee. 2nd best team is IPFW. The Summit will send a 13-14 seed to the tournament, and won't win a game. The teams currently in the Summit have won a total of 1 game in the NCAA tournament. Their budgets are pathetic and if any team were to become consistently decent, they'd be snatched up by a better league.

Screw the Summit.

I should add that the SL has raised their standing and profile despite having lost their 2 arguably best programs in Valpo and Oakland.  No cry baby "Butler left us" stories in the Summit League.  To the contrary, they've elevated their ranking higher than it ever was (by far) when Valpo and Oakland were ruling the roost.  Nebraska Omaha jumped directly from D-2 to the Summit League in 2012, yet the SL continued to raise their profile in the process.  What the SL has done is nothing short of amazing.  What the HL has done with far less trial and tribulation is nothing short of pathetic. What's really sad is that without former Mid-Con/Summit members Valpo and Oakland, the HL would be no more than a mediocre low major conference akin to the Big South and Atlantic Sun.  Conversely, if Valpo and Oakland were still in the SL, it would probably be ranked 8th or 9th right now. 

[StlVUFan]

To the contrary, they've elevated their ranking higher than it ever was

Sagarin has them as 17, us 18.  Are they ranked 11th in anything other than RPI?

[wh]

To the contrary, they've elevated their ranking higher than it ever was

Sagarin has them as 17, us 18.  Are they ranked 11th in anything other than RPI?

For better or for worse RPI is the only ranking method officially recognized by the NCAA and the only 1 I personally follow. Thus, I didn't pick it because it fit some narrative I was trying to sell. It is what it is.

If someone doesn't want to accept it because the numbers look more favorable to the HL with some other ranking method, I can understand.

[Kyle321n]

The Summit is 15th in KenPom and the Horizon is 17th. We're actually in danger of dropping behind the Sun Belt and in no danger of passing the Ivy.

Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk

[Commissioner]

Interesting discussion, I hope you don't mind my chiming in on your board.

The Summit's thrashing of the Horizon in conference RPI this year is a fluke born of a couple or really bad Horizon teams, and scheduling. It can't be pointed out enough that while RPI rewards an individual team for mediocre record against a tough non-conference schedule, it doesn't work if every team in the conference takes that approach. The Summit's non-conference schedule ranks 30th (the Horizon's was 14th). But they got of lot of wins playing those crap teams. Now RPI recycles those wins through each team's RPI again and again in conference play. The losses the Horizon took out of conference cycle through each teams RPI again and again.

Conference RPI is not something to be totally ignored, but it's really a toy more than an analytical tool. That's a big reason why the NCAA has always insisted, correctly, that teams, not conferences, get tournament bids. Overscheduling is a problem in the Horizon, true. But basically you've got a very down year in the Horizon, and a very up year in the Summit, and still in the more sophisticated ranking systems, Sagarin and KenPom, the conferences are about equal. The Summit is not as good a conference as the Horizon, not really close. Yet. Still, we want that Conference RPI number up, for a lot of reasons.

The Conference was badly hurt by transfers this year. A Cleveland State team with Grady and Lewis (and Keane, I suppose) would be very good team, and raise the conference considerably (not only would it's score be higher, but it would make everyone else's higher). Remember also that YSU lost its leading scorer, Marcus Keene, to transfer.

League should be better next year barring such events. UIC is really rotten, but some of its freshmen/sophs have talent --  they could be quite a bit more competitive next year. YSU, with Hain injured, plays no seniors. They're not very good this year, but they've got a lot of good shooters coming back. Detroit -- which was picked 4th, not third in the conference, but point taken a3uge-- loses Anton Wilson, but other than Wilson our best players are the junior Jenkins and then all freshmen and sophs. You'll lose a lot in Carter, Walker, Vashil, but should be pretty good, esp. if Smits comes through to fill the center spot. OU doesn't lose anybody but Gibson, and he's not integral, and his replacement, Brechting, should be as good by next year. It's not always good to have a bunch of bad players coming back, but nonetheless, few Horizon teams are going to be hit hard by graduation. Green Bay (which loses just two players, but its two best) is hit, and Wright State (loses four key players). I suppose you could say Milwaukee (Tiby and Panoske, back up guard Lyle). NKU loses a couple of its best players but they've got an excellent recruiting class. The guys they're losing were good Atlantic Sun recruits. The guys they're adding are good Horizon recruits.

Which brings up that last year was a good recruiting year for the league. There is much more depth in this freshman class than two years ago (that class did have Peters and Felder, but not much else). The league's best players, including Peters and Felder, return.

The league should be solid next year.

[SanityLost17]

Interesting discussion, I hope you don't mind my chiming in on your board.

The Summit's thrashing of the Horizon in conference RPI this year is a fluke born of a couple or really bad Horizon teams, and scheduling. It can't be pointed out enough that while RPI rewards an individual team for mediocre record against a tough non-conference schedule, it doesn't work if every team in the conference takes that approach. The Summit's non-conference schedule ranks 30th (the Horizon's was 14th). But they got of lot of wins playing those crap teams. Now RPI recycles those wins through each team's RPI again and again in conference play. The losses the Horizon took out of conference cycle through each teams RPI again and again.

Conference RPI is not something to be totally ignored, but it's really a toy more than an analytical tool. That's a big reason why the NCAA has always insisted, correctly, that teams, not conferences, get tournament bids. Overscheduling is a problem in the Horizon, true. But basically you've got a very down year in the Horizon, and a very up year in the Summit, and still in the more sophisticated ranking systems, Sagarin and KenPom, the conferences are about equal. The Summit is not as good a conference as the Horizon, not really close. Yet. Still, we want that Conference RPI number up, for a lot of reasons.

The Conference was badly hurt by transfers this year. A Cleveland State team with Grady and Lewis (and Keane, I suppose) would be very good team, and raise the conference considerably (not only would it's score be higher, but it would make everyone else's higher). Remember also that YSU lost its leading scorer, Marcus Keene, to transfer.

League should be better next year barring such events. UIC is really rotten, but some of its freshmen/sophs have talent --  they could be quite a bit more competitive next year. YSU, with Hain injured, plays no seniors. They're not very good this year, but they've got a lot of good shooters coming back. Detroit -- which was picked 4th, not third in the conference, but point taken a3uge-- loses Anton Wilson, but other than Wilson our best players are the junior Jenkins and then all freshmen and sophs. You'll lose a lot in Carter, Walker, Vashil, but should be pretty good, esp. if Smits comes through to fill the center spot. OU doesn't lose anybody but Gibson, and he's not integral, and his replacement, Brechting, should be as good by next year. It's not always good to have a bunch of bad players coming back, but nonetheless, few Horizon teams are going to be hit hard by graduation. Green Bay (which loses just two players, but its two best) is hit, and Wright State (loses four key players). I suppose you could say Milwaukee (Tiby and Panoske, back up guard Lyle). NKU loses a couple of its best players but they've got an excellent recruiting class. The guys they're losing were good Atlantic Sun recruits. The guys they're adding are good Horizon recruits.

Which brings up that last year was a good recruiting year for the league. There is much more depth in this freshman class than two years ago (that class did have Peters and Felder, but not much else). The league's best players, including Peters and Felder, return.

The league should be solid next year.

I know scheduling is really hard, but based on your 2nd paragraph it sounds to me like teams in the HL should do their very best to schedule based on what they have returning.

Losing a lot to graduation?  Schedule as many cupcakes as possible. 
Have most of your starters returning and a good recruit (or 2) coming in?  Schedule really tough, even if it means going on the road. 
Are you somewhere in-between?  Get yourself a balanced schedule of 2 really hard games, 3 middle of the road games, and the rest cupcakes.     

[a3uge]

Interesting discussion, I hope you don't mind my chiming in on your board.

The Summit's thrashing of the Horizon in conference RPI this year is a fluke born of a couple or really bad Horizon teams, and scheduling. It can't be pointed out enough that while RPI rewards an individual team for mediocre record against a tough non-conference schedule, it doesn't work if every team in the conference takes that approach. The Summit's non-conference schedule ranks 30th (the Horizon's was 14th). But they got of lot of wins playing those crap teams. Now RPI recycles those wins through each team's RPI again and again in conference play. The losses the Horizon took out of conference cycle through each teams RPI again and again.

Conference RPI is not something to be totally ignored, but it's really a toy more than an analytical tool. That's a big reason why the NCAA has always insisted, correctly, that teams, not conferences, get tournament bids. Overscheduling is a problem in the Horizon, true. But basically you've got a very down year in the Horizon, and a very up year in the Summit, and still in the more sophisticated ranking systems, Sagarin and KenPom, the conferences are about equal. The Summit is not as good a conference as the Horizon, not really close. Yet. Still, we want that Conference RPI number up, for a lot of reasons.

The Conference was badly hurt by transfers this year. A Cleveland State team with Grady and Lewis (and Keane, I suppose) would be very good team, and raise the conference considerably (not only would it's score be higher, but it would make everyone else's higher). Remember also that YSU lost its leading scorer, Marcus Keene, to transfer.

League should be better next year barring such events. UIC is really rotten, but some of its freshmen/sophs have talent --  they could be quite a bit more competitive next year. YSU, with Hain injured, plays no seniors. They're not very good this year, but they've got a lot of good shooters coming back. Detroit -- which was picked 4th, not third in the conference, but point taken a3uge-- loses Anton Wilson, but other than Wilson our best players are the junior Jenkins and then all freshmen and sophs. You'll lose a lot in Carter, Walker, Vashil, but should be pretty good, esp. if Smits comes through to fill the center spot. OU doesn't lose anybody but Gibson, and he's not integral, and his replacement, Brechting, should be as good by next year. It's not always good to have a bunch of bad players coming back, but nonetheless, few Horizon teams are going to be hit hard by graduation. Green Bay (which loses just two players, but its two best) is hit, and Wright State (loses four key players). I suppose you could say Milwaukee (Tiby and Panoske, back up guard Lyle). NKU loses a couple of its best players but they've got an excellent recruiting class. The guys they're losing were good Atlantic Sun recruits. The guys they're adding are good Horizon recruits.

Which brings up that last year was a good recruiting year for the league. There is much more depth in this freshman class than two years ago (that class did have Peters and Felder, but not much else). The league's best players, including Peters and Felder, return.

The league should be solid next year.

My biggest gripe is that after last year's award ceremony, we were told the league would be much improved this year. And after a down year last year, its gotten worse. I understand all of the excuses, but I'm not happy with all the teams that scheduled way too many buy-games and not enough easy wins, and, in general, teams that under-performed.

And maybe Valpo and UWGB are a bit to blame as well. We were the top teams and couldn't elevate the conference even remotely like Butler did. Crappy teams like Bradley and Drake will still pull 2,3 star recruits (not that they do anything with them) because they want to play against top talent. Without a consistent tournament winner and ranked team, there isn't as much to advertise.

[Kyle321n]

I know scheduling is really hard, but based on your 2nd paragraph it sounds to me like teams in the HL should do their very best to schedule based on what they have returning.

Losing a lot to graduation?  Schedule as many cupcakes as possible. 
Have most of your starters returning and a good recruit (or 2) coming in?  Schedule really tough, even if it means going on the road. 
Are you somewhere in-between?  Get yourself a balanced schedule of 2 really hard games, 3 middle of the road games, and the rest cupcakes.     

It's not always that easy to do. Sometimes you need to schedule 2 years out in advanced with Home and Homes. Look at Cleveland State. They have a fairly aggressive schedule (50th best in KenPom) and expected to have Bryn Forbes, Anton Grady and Trey Lewis playing for them. Look how that's worked out for them.

[SanityLost17]

We are in an age for big data.  I gotta think power 5 conferences are hiring individuals to analyze that data for scheduling purposes and passing that data along to their member schools.  Dear LSU, based on the data complied by ____________, here is a list of 50 schools that you should try to schedule over the next 2 years to maximize your and the league's RPI and chance of getting more teams into the tourney. 

[a3uge]

We are in an age for big data.  I gotta think power 5 conferences are hiring individuals to analyze that data for scheduling purposes and passing that data along to their member schools.  Dear LSU, based on the data complied by ____________, here is a list of 50 schools that you should try to schedule over the next 2 years to maximize your and the league's RPI and chance of getting more teams into the tourney.

It doesn't have anything to do with data crunching... It has to do with money. Anyone can look up on RPIs of each team and Google who's going to be decent. LSU is able to purchase several home games vs bottom level Southland/ASun teams. Valpo can maybe only get a home game with a return trip with a nearby MAC team. Then, they're able to buy into big neutral court destination tournaments to play a couple top 50 RPI teams.

[IrishDawg]

I know I'm really late to the party on this discussion, and may not be welcome because of my fan affiliation, but rather than looking at RPI, which is easy to game (see the Pac-12 this year), a better metric of a team's worth is looking to kenpom or similar sites that do a better job of really looking at how good teams and leagues are.  From 2002 until Butler left after 2012, the Horizon was consistently ranked in about the 11-12 range, with the league high rating of 10th occurring 3 times and a couple of years (05&06) where it ranked 16th and 15th being the low points.  Since Butler's departure, the league has ranked 12th, 16th and 18th, and next year might be as bad or worse if the teams you can normally count on to be pretty solid (Wright State, Milwaukee and Cleveland State) don't pick it up as they get new coaches/recover from all their transfers.

Also impacting the league in the future is that after next season, the Horizon League will no longer benefit from either of the Final 4 runs (this was the last season for the 2010 run), and will go from getting a little over $3M a year, to just over $1M a year from the NCAA.  I don't know how much the league might benefit monetarily from having the tournament in Detroit, but I have to think the exodus of those tourney funds is a possible reason for moving it from the home site.

I do think the Northern Kentucky addition will eventually improve considering how nice their facilities are, and Cleveland State, if they keep Gary Waters, will eventually get back to where they have been which will improve the league ranking, but more than anything, the conference needs a program to get into the tournament and win a game or two.  I do think Valpo had that potential this year, and as long as Bryce Drew sticks around, that should continue to be the case.

[a3uge]

I know I'm really late to the party on this discussion, and may not be welcome because of my fan affiliation, but rather than looking at RPI, which is easy to game (see the Pac-12 this year), a better metric of a team's worth is looking to kenpom or similar sites that do a better job of really looking at how good teams and leagues are.  From 2002 until Butler left after 2012, the Horizon was consistently ranked in about the 11-12 range, with the league high rating of 10th occurring 3 times and a couple of years (05&06) where it ranked 16th and 15th being the low points.  Since Butler's departure, the league has ranked 12th, 16th and 18th, and next year might be as bad or worse if the teams you can normally count on to be pretty solid (Wright State, Milwaukee and Cleveland State) don't pick it up as they get new coaches/recover from all their transfers.

Also impacting the league in the future is that after next season, the Horizon League will no longer benefit from either of the Final 4 runs (this was the last season for the 2010 run), and will go from getting a little over $3M a year, to just over $1M a year from the NCAA.  I don't know how much the league might benefit monetarily from having the tournament in Detroit, but I have to think the exodus of those tourney funds is a possible reason for moving it from the home site.

I do think the Northern Kentucky addition will eventually improve considering how nice their facilities are, and Cleveland State, if they keep Gary Waters, will eventually get back to where they have been which will improve the league ranking, but more than anything, the conference needs a program to get into the tournament and win a game or two.  I do think Valpo had that potential this year, and as long as Bryce Drew sticks around, that should continue to be the case.

These are good points. We all know the shortcomings of RPI, specifically as a predictive tool, but it's still extremely important to have a good RPI at the end of the season. The selection committee looks primarily at RPI when ranking the mid major autobids, and the amount of top 50/100 RPI wins a school has. It is crucial that the Horizon League sends a decent RPI team to the tournament so they get a better seed. A big problem with the Horizon the past few years has been over-scheduling - we've had a stronger rank in SOS than rank in RPI. That's not good. We want those either even, or slightly reversed.

[oklahomamick]

9. CAA
10. MAC
11. Summit
12. MWC
13. MVC
14. WCC
15. Big West
16. Ivy League
17. Sun Belt
18. Southern
19. MAAC
20. HORIZON LEAGUE
21. OVC
22. Conference USA

Our old Summit was leagues ahead of us this year.  I know this was the 1st (and hopefully the last) Summit ranked ahead of HL.  HL had 4 anchor teams UIC with a league worst 346 RPI NKU at 296*, CSU at 278 YSU at 275 Detroit at 204. 

Read more: http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/898/where-hl-rank-after-season#ixzz4DkuJbLGk

[motowntitan]

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

[a3uge]

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

Agreed for most part, but much of the lack of success had to do with under seeding and not sending the best team each year. The Horizon made this worse last year by moving the tournament.

The recent coaching turnover is a positive sign though. The league is actually getting a lot better recruits for the high salaries HL coaches are paid (compared to other mid majors)

[motowntitan]

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

Agreed for most part, but much of the lack of success had to do with under seeding and not sending the best team each year. The Horizon made this worse last year by moving the tournament.

The recent coaching turnover is a positive sign though. The league is actually getting a lot better recruits for the high salaries HL coaches are paid (compared to other mid majors)

"Not sending the best team each year"

The Horizon "sends" the team that wins the tourney.  That and the under seeding are proof of the failure of every Horizon team since Butler left.

[a3uge]

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

Agreed for most part, but much of the lack of success had to do with under seeding and not sending the best team each year. The Horizon made this worse last year by moving the tournament.

The recent coaching turnover is a positive sign though. The league is actually getting a lot better recruits for the high salaries HL coaches are paid (compared to other mid majors)

"Not sending the best team each year"

The Horizon "sends" the team that wins the tourney.  That and the under seeding are proof of the failure of every Horizon team since Butler left.

Montana getting seeded ahead of Valpo wasn't a sign of failure by Cleveland State. It was a sign of Valpo existing geographically closer to Michigan.

Green Bay losing to UWM in the semis, and Valpo to Green Bay showed that 15 and 14 seeds play really good teams.