Supporting the Team in Detroit/Joe Louis Arena

[HailVU2014]

Now that we have officially clinched the #1 seed in the Horizon League Tournament, I want to start the conversation of supporting the team in Detroit. I know that the move of the Horizon League Tournament from campus sites to Joe Louis Arena in Detroit has been a point of contention for many Horizon League Fan Bases west of I-75 for numerous reasons. Rather than continuing to beat a dead horse (there's another thread in the "On the Horizon" section for more ranting and bashing of the decision), I was hoping to start a thread to see what the Valpo support and attendance of the event will be and if some of Valpo's most loyal supporters (i.e.- members of this forum) are going to Detroit for the Horizon League Tournament. So... who is making the journey to Detroit?

For those that don't know, the Valparaiso University Alumni Office is putting together resources for those that want to make the trip to the Motor City for the tournament.

Details: http://alumni.valpo.edu/s/1347/index.aspx?sid=1347&gid=1&pgid=1653&cid=3455&ecid=3455&crid=0&calpgid=61&calcid=1962

Through the Alumni Office, you can buy individual game tickets for $20 per game (Tickets are in Section 122 until it sells out), pre-game Valpo dinners in the Detroit Red Wings Legends Club, and there is a bus that will leave Valpo on Monday, March 7 and return on Wednesday, March 9. There is also a link for the Valpo Block of hotel rooms at the Hilton Garden Inn.

You can also get all-session tickets or individual game tickets from the Motor City Madness Website or calling the VU Ticket Office.

Details: http://motorcitymadness.horizonleague.org/tickets

The official Valpo section is section 122, which is center court behind the "home team" bench. We are lovingly nestled between the Oakland fans in 121 and the Detroit fans in 123...

I know that the tournament location change will bring more Oakland and Detroit fans to the tournament than Valpo fans, whereas the old format would have given us the home court with 4000+ Valpo Fans in attendance. It'll be very different than what we have grown so accustomed to in the Horizon League, but we have to play the games we're given and support our team no matter what. This may be both naive and ambitious, but I hope that we can show up and have the third largest HL fan base in attendance and give respectable support to this team that has given us so much so far this season.

I am bringing two others and myself to the tournament.

[bbtds]

Valpo fans will probably come very close to beating out Detroit fans for total numbers at this event. The Crusader group will probably be less but I don't think it will be by much.

[SanityLost17]

The Semi-Finals and Finals need to be moved to a weekend ASAP, even if that is 2018.  It is just too hard to get up there with work.  I am considering leaving right after work on Monday, taking off Tuesday, and going to to work VERY TIRED on Wednesday.  We shall see. 

[ValpoHoops]

Just for a look...if the season ended now...



No ties currently in the standings, as teams have played either 15, 16 or 17 games. I would expect that to change (even tonight, possibly)...but I was happy I didn't have to figure any out this morning.

[oklahomamick]

we want Detroit, UIC, UWM and Oakland on the other side of the bracket. 

[valpo84]

Although I could make it to Detroit for the Finals, I am boycotting the Mid-Con errr Horizon Tourney this year as protest for changing the format.  It may just be 2 fans but the principle is important.  We have attended in Valpo in 2013 and 2015 with a drive almost 2x as long.  We continue to be baffled by the conference's decision and pray that we exit this conference for the A-1X or Big East at the earliest opportunity. 

[oklahomamick]

Several on here will probably not agree but.

1.  Pack the stadium with as many "protesting" fans as we can.  Shirts and banners opposing the move. 
2.  Call up our buddies at UIC (they also voted against the move) and propose a package deal to MVC or A10.  Unfortunately we are more attractive as a package deal with UIC.  No way the MVC turns us down together. 
3.  Use the 20k from the HL tournament to pay our exit fee.

[agibson]

They just raised the exit fee a couple of years ago, right? And I think it's a little more serious now: 20k's not going to help much.

I'll likely be there for the semis and final, but it would be more fun at the ARC with more of my family there.

Not sure how many of the HL schools will be on spring break, but presumably playing 4 games on a weekday doesn't jive well with academic standards.

My biggest beef with the format is probably the "neutral" court. (Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans va beds?) And, I'll admit I'm a little sore about the league changing it's mind about the format, with the justification not obviously a winning one, after we've only gotten to enjoy it a few times.

I'm not sure I'm angry enough to make a sign, but if somebody handed me one and I had assurances it wasn't going to get me kicked out for any legitimate reason, I'd hold one for a bit.

[HailVU2014]

Three Quick Points:
1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.

2. Personally, I prefer that our fans go in a sort of "protest," rather than not go at all, as that does two things. First and foremost, we are still there supporting our players, our team, and our school. And... if we don't show up, would conferences like the MVC, A10, or Big East really want us? Detroit is closer to Valpo than St. Louis (MVC) and New York (A10 and Big East) and if we cannot bring 300-500 fans to Detroit, why would we suddenly have a bigger fan base gather further away? (Yes, I think that we could travel better to STL or NYC, but they will use hard numbers from this tourney to judge us.)

3. I think it's impossible to have all of Oakland, Detroit, UWM, and UIC on the other side. I think one of Detroit and UWM would have to be a 4 or 5 seed.

[NativeCheesehead]

I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?

[wh]

Of the 9 people from my family in attendance last year, I'm the only 1 going to Detroit. A hodgepodge of reasons - work, school, lost wages, hotel rooms, food, higher ticket prices, etc. - has dealt everyone out. Instead, my daughter and son-in-law are hosting a family viewing party at their house.

Having the semi's and finals on the weekend would have given the change to a neutral site a fighting chance for success, but having it on Mon/Tues is going to be an unmitigated disaster IMO.  When the league was cooking this up, they should have drawn a line in the sand that if they couldn't get weekend TV coverage, they wouldn't go forward. Obviously they chose not to. If it somehow turns out to be a success, I will be the first person to call LeCrone a genius. If it turns out to be an embarrassing flop, I'll be the first to call for his resignation and a complete house cleaning at the HL office.

[SanityLost17]

I still think most of the anger on this board is misplaced.  A neutral court tournament can be a lot of fun, and "Motor City Madness" is something that can be well branded over time, but the change should have waited until we could renegotiate our TV schedule with ESPN.  The games must be Thursday-Sunday or Friday-Monday.

Until that happens, this idea will be an absolute disaster.  With all the data available on attendance for weeknight games vs. weekend games, my 9th graders would be smart enough to figure out this was a bad idea.  When the attendance numbers come out, and they will be abysmal, LeCrone should be fired immediately. 

[crusaderjoe]

Several on here will probably not agree but.

1.  Pack the stadium with as many "protesting" fans as we can.  Shirts and banners opposing the move. 
2.  Call up our buddies at UIC (they also voted against the move) and propose a package deal to MVC or A10.  Unfortunately we are more attractive as a package deal with UIC.  No way the MVC turns us down together. 
3.  Use the 20k from the HL tournament to pay our exit fee.

We're probably a more attractive packaged deal to the A-10 with Detroit.
We're probably a more attractive packaged deal to the MVC with New Mexico State.
Now, the OVC?  UIC and Valpo would be pretty attractive as a packaged deal.

Valpo isn't going anywhere, anyway, unless of course the Big XII expands, which then causes the AAC to poach, which then causes C-USA to poach, which then causes the Sun Belt to poach or to call up FCS programs.  Or, Wichita could start FBS football and leave the MVC via an invite somewhere.  Then, we might have a chance.  Otherwise, fuggetabadit.

[covufan]

Although I could make it to Detroit for the Finals, I am boycotting the Mid-Con errr Horizon Tourney this year as protest for changing the format.  It may just be 2 fans but the principle is important.  We have attended in Valpo in 2013 and 2015 with a drive almost 2x as long.  We continue to be baffled by the conference's decision and pray that we exit this conference for the A-1X or Big East at the earliest opportunity. 

Since when did you become principled?

All kidding aside, I can't blame you.  Chicago or Indy I could see more people, not just Valpo fans, interested in going to the tournament and seeing the city.  Baffled is an understatement!

[Kyle321n]

A neutral court tournament can be a lot of fun

Neutral court? It's 14 minutes driving from one university and 35 minutes from another university. The next closest university is 2.5 hours away with 3 universities that's 3-3.5 hours away. I didn't realize that having the tourney in the backyard of 2 schools while making it cross state travel for the rest of the universities (It's nearly 8 hours for Green Bay to get to the Joe) doesn't exactly scream "neutral".  If the Detroit and Oakland ticket packages don't sell out I'll be shocked. Indianapolis would be the closest thing to having it in a neutral location.

[ml2]

Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans vs beds?

I believe there has been some research on this topic, and the short answer is that home court advantage across all sports is primarily caused by the fans' effects on the refs.

Here is a short write up on the research and book in this area done by an academic at the University of Chicago. http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/

Here's a short quote, "(the researchers) found that home teams essentially get slightly preferential treatment from the officials...officials don't consciously decide to give the home team an advantage — but rather, being social creatures (and human beings) like the rest of us, they assimilate the emotion of the home crowd and, once in a while, make a call that makes a whole lot of close-by, noisy people very happy."

[oklahomamick]

4 straight years the Mid-Con was held in Tulsa, ORU won.  Since, 1981 ORU has never won a tournament outside Tulsa, OK.  Valpo left the conference shortly after the move of the tourney....

The last 10 years, the HL tourney host has won it 7 times, 70%.   

[FWalum]

I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?

I think this is a long standing issue that has been coming to a head even back to the days when Butler dominated the tournament and now the other teams saw the same thing happening with VU.  The thinking is that outside of the HL the tournament format was seen as bush league and not the type of format a low major or high mid-major league would do for a "real" tournament.  The HL wanted to be thought of in the same breath as the MVC and Arch Madness in St Louis and not some little league playing at school sites. To me the fact that the HL still has the double bye is amazing.  This is the biggest advantage in any tournament format (other than playing at home) and something rarely seen in any conference tournament where the 1 and 2 seed only need to win 2 games to be tournament champions. Imagine being IPFW, they are assured a 1 or 2 seed in the Summit League tournament and will have to play in Sioux Falls, SD, win 3 games and their only advantage would be an extra days rest between games 1 and 2.  How do you think that will work out for them....

I don't like the fact that the home court advantage has been taken away from the #1 seed, but then I am a Valpo fan.  If I was a fan of another school I would probably be more in favor of the new format. I would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness).  I am not in the camp that thinks this is a HORRIBLE decision giving a tremendous advantage to the Detroit schools that will help them win the tournament and improve their recruiting.  Will it help them in some slight way... you could make an argument for some slight advantage, will they sleep in their own beds... probably not, will they have huge screaming crowds cheering on the Detroit schools... that remains to be seen, would Alec Peters have gone to a different school because the HL tournament is held at "The Joe"... I doubt it.

In a perfect world how and where your tournament played out would not be an issue, but if you want to play in the big boy's sandbox I think you have to look like a reasonable facsimile of the big boys and our old tournament didn't do that for us. Forget all the talk about switching conferences, the only real option is the MVC and that isn't happening anytime soon.

[covufan]

Do we have data on how much of home court advantage is balls vs rims vs fans vs beds?

I believe there has been some research on this topic, and the short answer is that home court advantage across all sports is primarily caused by the fans' effects on the refs.

Here is a short write up on the research and book in this area done by an academic at the University of Chicago. http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/18/football-freakonomics-how-advantageous-is-home-field-advantage-and-why/

Here's a short quote, "(the researchers) found that home teams essentially get slightly preferential treatment from the officials...officials don't consciously decide to give the home team an advantage — but rather, being social creatures (and human beings) like the rest of us, they assimilate the emotion of the home crowd and, once in a while, make a call that makes a whole lot of close-by, noisy people very happy."

I recall about 25 years ago in an office bracket pool for the NCAA tournament that one person, who not having been born in the United States nor a basketball fan but wanted to participate, made all picks based on distance from the scheduled location.  He ended up winning!  Really deflated all of the work that others had used in making their picks!

[bbtds]

The Semi-Finals and Finals need to be moved to a weekend ASAP, even if that is 2018.  It is just too hard to get up there with work.  I am considering leaving right after work on Monday, taking off Tuesday, and going to to work VERY TIRED on Wednesday.  We shall see. 

It's not a Horizon League decision. It's an ESPN decision and the HL just doesn't get the ratings that other conferences get so therefore it's on a Tuesday and not a weekend.

[a3uge]

I believe they're moving it next year to the Sunday before.

[Vinny]

Since the MVC lasted look into adding Valpo, the basketball team has gotten even better. Is that alone enough to offset our facilities shortcomings? This fieldhouse idea has been thrown around for a few years. What's the status on that? I recall around a $25 million price tag associated with it. Are we even halfway there yet? Until there are shovels in the ground, I don't see Valpo making a move up.

[wh]

I would be curious to know the timetable behind the scenes on this move, though i find it unlikely we ever will. Was there any chatter of this before the end of last season? I wasn't on the board then so if i'm rehashing i apologize. The timing on the announcement just seemed like a middle finger to us. Or was this a response to our public flirtation with MVC?

I think this is a long standing issue that has been coming to a head even back to the days when Butler dominated the tournament and now the other teams saw the same thing happening with VU.  The thinking is that outside of the HL the tournament format was seen as bush league and not the type of format a low major or high mid-major league would do for a "real" tournament.  The HL wanted to be thought of in the same breath as the MVC and Arch Madness in St Louis and not some little league playing at school sites. To me the fact that the HL still has the double bye is amazing.  This is the biggest advantage in any tournament format (other than playing at home) and something rarely seen in any conference tournament where the 1 and 2 seed only need to win 2 games to be tournament champions. Imagine being IPFW, they are assured a 1 or 2 seed in the Summit League tournament and will have to play in Sioux Falls, SD, win 3 games and their only advantage would be an extra days rest between games 1 and 2.  How do you think that will work out for them....

I don't like the fact that the home court advantage has been taken away from the #1 seed, but then I am a Valpo fan.  If I was a fan of another school I would probably be more in favor of the new format. I would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness).  I am not in the camp that thinks this is a HORRIBLE decision giving a tremendous advantage to the Detroit schools that will help them win the tournament and improve their recruiting.  Will it help them in some slight way... you could make an argument for some slight advantage, will they sleep in their own beds... probably not, will they have huge screaming crowds cheering on the Detroit schools... that remains to be seen, would Alec Peters have gone to a different school because the HL tournament is held at "The Joe"... I doubt it.

In a perfect world how and where your tournament played out would not be an issue, but if you want to play in the big boy's sandbox I think you have to look like a reasonable facsimile of the big boys and our old tournament didn't do that for us. Forget all the talk about switching conferences, the only real option is the MVC and that isn't happening anytime soon.

I think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair."  In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah.  Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.'  So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again. 

It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it.  We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up.  We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy.   But that's not what these people are looking for.  They want a gimmick, a shortcut.  At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance.  The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves. 

[oklahomamick]

The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.

The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us.  I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package.  UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville.  Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students.  The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. 

I used to live in a low income neighborhood.  I moved out to the suburbs.  Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? 

If we want more success, take advantage of our current success.  During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined).  Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder?

This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid.  One is far fetch one should be reality.   

[VUfan]

The location Detroit is a factor of having 6 schools in Michigan, Ohio. Kentucky and only 4 west of the Indiana state line more votes in the east Due to the loss of Butler and Loyola. Scheduling is controlled by Broadcast Scheduling (ESPN).
We have Beaten both Detroit both home and away.  Only Wright State has an advantage and we have the skills to deal with that on a good day.  Lets take care of Wisconsin this weekend and match our best record ever and get our beast seed.