Supporting the Team in Detroit/Joe Louis Arena

[ValpoFan]

With all due respect, I am not a supporter of this boycotting and protesting idea. It will be punishing our team and players who deserve nothing short of our 100% support.

If we want to be a big time (in athletics) school, if we want to move on to a bigger conference, if we want to convince Bryce to stay in town, we have to ROCK DETROIT!!! One of the characteristics of the big time programs is that they travel well. It is time for us to put our $ and our time where our mouth is.

I am heading there along 3 other people.

[bbtds]

I would have preferred that the new tournament be at a truly neutral site easily accessible to all teams, but honestly that is unlikely because the only city fitting that criteria with national recognition is Indianapolis (once again competing with the MVC and Arch Madness).

I would like that. :-)

[a3uge]

The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.

The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us.  I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package.  UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville.  Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students.  The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. 

I used to live in a low income neighborhood.  I moved out to the suburbs.  Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? 

If we want more success, take advantage of our current success.  During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined).  Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder?

This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid.  One is far fetch one should be reality.   

News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.

[oklahomamick]

The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.

The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us.  I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package.  UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville.  Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students.  The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood.  I moved out to the suburbs.  Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success.  During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined).  Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid.  One is far fetch one should be reality.

News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.

That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost. 

[a3uge]

The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.

The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us.  I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package.  UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville.  Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students.  The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood.  I moved out to the suburbs.  Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success.  During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined).  Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid.  One is far fetch one should be reality.

News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.

That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost.

What indication do you have that they want to add 2 more teams, one of which is one of the worst teams in D1 basketball this year?

[FWalum]

The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves.

The best F them would be to leave and take UIC with us.  I'm telling you guys, there is no way the Valley rejects us together as a package.  UIC and Loyola would be travel partners and we would be with Evansville.  Did I just mention two private schools that we compete with in recruiting students.  The best F you would be to improve ourselves to a better conference. I used to live in a low income neighborhood.  I moved out to the suburbs.  Did my neighbors get upset that I was bettering myself? If we want more success, take advantage of our current success.  During the Mid-con days couldn't imagine winning 4 out of 5 seasons championships and being the leader in the HL(well...the HL is different from the 2 bid league when we joined).  Now we are in the HL can we continue to move up the ladder? This should not be unrealistic as at-large bid.  One is far fetch one should be reality.

News flash: the Missouri Valley already rejected both us and UIC.

That was when they were looking for 1 university to replace the 1 they lost.

What indication do you have that they want to add 2 more teams, one of which is one of the worst teams in D1 basketball this year?

EXACTLY, nowhere is there any indication that the MVC wants to add 2 teams now or in the future.  I will say this in UIC's defense, I think they are poised to make a big move up in the conference next year, but that wouldn't make any difference to the MVC. What conference in their right mind would want to add more teams to their league just to split the NCAA pie into smaller pieces.  And don't tell me that adding us or UIC would add an additional NCAA bid to the MVC or somehow add to their television revenue.

[talksalot]

I bought my ticket to Historic JLA through the valpo.edu website, there are bus  and/or  dinner and/or game ticket options for Monday and Tuesday night.

I figured that would at least put me in the Valpo cheering block.

I'm planning to leave Wednesday morning to drive back. 

OH.   I'm wondering if I was their marketing plan.    Last year, I did not have to buy a ticket... this year I did.   There you have it... $20 pure profit over last year.... although, wait, since UDM staff are the official hosts, they probably don't need to buy tickets, so I guess that's a wash.

Befuddled and Bewildered.... but attending  cuz I'm a fan.

[Kyle321n]

It's the exact middle of spring break for our students, so any thought of doing a bus trip for the students would be out since they'll all have been home for a week before the semi-final and final.

[HC]

That's a lot of driving for one day. Currently not planning on going. That might change if/when we win on that Monday night.

[HailVU2014]

I was afraid that this thread was going to turn into this quagmire of bashing the tourney/conference and/or a discussion on leaving for another conference...

What is not going to change anytime soon:
1.   Valpo and/or UIC leaving for the MVC, A10, Big East, Big Ten, NBA, etc. We had our chance and the MVC chose Loyola.
2.   The Horizon League Tournament being in Detroit. It's a five year contract with Olympia and ESPN, so the earliest change will be a whole cycle of students/recruits. The move makes sense for 6 of the 10 Horizon League schools, although only 2 voted against it. (Thanks UWM and UWGB!)

What is not changing by March, but could/should change in the near future:
1.   The tournament could move from Saturday-Tuesday to a Thursday-Sunday/Friday-Monday system. This year's experiment and time will tell... (along with ESPN's input I'm sure)
2.   The tournament format with double-byes. Tough to convince people to stick around for more than a day or two as lower seeds won't show up and higher seeds will wait to show up until Monday.
3.   Valpo's support of this event. Clearly, most of us aren't happy with the change. But in order to be considered for greener pastures and to be seen as a top mid-major, we need to embrace the cards we are dealt and support this team in every way possible. Based on how this thread has gone so far, it is clear that many aren't going to Detroit this year for various reasons, but if attendance from Valpo is only one section every year, what conference above us is going to want us? Detroit is closer and cheaper than any other conference tournament that has been suggested we join. I know that we are sour this year, but I bet we relent when Valpo isn't #1 down the road.

What can/should change by March: (Apologies to anyone I offend, just my  ...)
The number of Valpo fans that should go to Detroit to give our 110% percent support to our team, which may very well be the best team in school history. I feel that many on here are punishing this team because of a decision that neither the players nor our administration made by not going to the tournament. I understand that some of you want to make a statement and that is fine; make your statement by going in your biggest, brightest Valpo gear and make giant gold signs about the bad decision and hand them out to the whole Valpo section to be held up every time Alec drains a three, Vashil makes a block, Bryce takes off his jacket, etc. Don't make your statement by not going and making this even more of a road game for our guys. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their action, and I understand that not everyone can travel, take off work, fork over the money, etc. However, in my opinion, if you want and deserve better, let's prove that we are the class of the Horizon League, take the adversity by the horns, and make a bold statement by owning the tournament that should be ours, instead of sitting idly by and whining about how things are unfair for the us.

So, back to the original question... who else is going to the tournament? (That hasn't said yes or no already...)

[VULB#62]

A Monday semi and Tuesday final would fill JLA ..... IF it involved Enormous U vs. the U of Gigantic, each of which have tens of thousands of rabid alumni and subway alumni and even if only a small percentage came. This ain't that friends. But I guess the initial TV money will help to soften the shortfall. And it will be a shortfall. If they continue to pursue this strategy it will be years before the cameras will show a sizeable crowd at these games.

So, the HL has placed the first and second round games on the weekend (when people have the available time) and relegated the two most important rounds to the weeknights when so many of us can't attend. This runs counter to just about all the other good tournaments where the prelim rounds on Thursday and Friday  get some support but the semis and final get the crowds on the weekend.

If the premise stated earlier was for the HL to present a class operation, IMO they should have told ESPN to pack sand and implemented their strategy to the benefit of the HL fans with weekend semis and the final. Screw the bucks initially and demonstrate to ESPN that Motor City Madness deserves weekend coverage. It might take a year or two, but it would achieve a measure of success much earlier than this current strategy.

Just my 

[elephtheria47]

Unfortunately in today's society TV money is where it is at. It is guaranteed and you can shop between networks (ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, NBC Sports etc). It is why all the preseason tournaments are popular right now but there are never anyone in the seats. $$$ from fans in the stand is minimal and heavily influenced (your team winning or losing, weather, traffic conditions, time allowance, etc).

If the HL wants a weekend time frame, you may have to ditch ESPN which wouldn't be the end of the universe anymore. However, the ESPN3 package is pretty sweet and that'd likely have to go too.


Still think the change is going to be beneficial for whatever team wins it for the NCAA tournament. All the games are played in stadiums like Joe Louis Arena. Unfortunately, playing a championship game in your home gym in front of your home fans does nothing to get you prepared to play in the NCAA (although, it does almost guarantee that the best team in the conference gets there).

[a3uge]

Unfortunately in today's society TV money is where it is at. It is guaranteed and you can shop between networks (ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS Sports, NBC Sports etc). It is why all the preseason tournaments are popular right now but there are never anyone in the seats. $$$ from fans in the stand is minimal and heavily influenced (your team winning or losing, weather, traffic conditions, time allowance, etc).

If the HL wants a weekend time frame, you may have to ditch ESPN which wouldn't be the end of the universe anymore. However, the ESPN3 package is pretty sweet and that'd likely have to go too.


Still think the change is going to be beneficial for whatever team wins it for the NCAA tournament. All the games are played in stadiums like Joe Louis Arena. Unfortunately, playing a championship game in your home gym in front of your home fans does nothing to get you prepared to play in the NCAA (although, it does almost guarantee that the best team in the conference gets there).

Yeah, a 15-16 seed team may come from the Horizon, but man, they'll be ready to play?!

[SanityLost17]

When does our ESPN contract for the tournament ends?  (nobody seems to have answered this yet) 

[elephtheria47]

C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.


Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.

I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).

I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.

[valpo84]

C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.


Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.

I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).

I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.

As a point of clarification, we just played in a similar arena as JLA at the Q in Cleveland (which hosted the Regionals last year).   Having been at Columbus last year (as well as numerous other sites), we have demonstrated we can show up for tourneys.  My protest is personal and did not suggest it be joined or expanded, and it should not be seen as a slight to this team. In fact, it honors this team because they earned something that has been taken away.  Other teams, including previous Valpo teams, Butler and Milwaukee, earned home court.  And, remember the reason this format was instituted was to protect the higher seeds and their potential NCAA RPIs/seedings. Look, I've been around long enough now to see Valpo be jealously vibed by conference mates (Wright State's entry to the Mid-Con (demanding conference tourney at their site), the split of the Mid-Con and Butler's bolting when things got to tough for them).  Valpo needs and must stand up for its rights (Battle hymn of the Republic starts playing), when you attack Valpo, you attack America....

I do like the idea of signs in protest. "This is STILL OUR HOUSE."  "We're MAKING IT OUR ARC"  "ARC NORTH."  Or similar tasteful signs. How about even a throwback "The 313 is now the 219" 

[oklahomamick]

Yes, I got off topic.  I stated I would attend the game and support the team but thought we needed to make a statement regarding our distaste for the new location of the conference tourney.  How else will the powers of the HL know?  I then turned it into jumping to the MVC. 

Most on here are right when they bring the point that the MVC is not looking.  Personally, I think the MVC's next move will be whatever Wichita St. wants.  If WSU thinks bringing UIC and Valpo into the conference will be good, then the MVC will do it.  MVC cannot afford losing Creighton then Wichita St.  Just like the HL cannot afford losing Butler then Valpo. 

Regardless if the MVC is looking we need to pursue it.  Be aggressive.  When do you ask for a raise?  When you have done a consistently good job.   

I wonder what Bryce thinks about this?

That's my last voice on that.     for a while anyways...  Back to topic. 

[Kyle321n]

I just realized that both semifinals will be aired live on ESPNU this year. So we've got something better than previous seasons where they'd show the first semifinal tape delayed...

[ValpoHoops]

I just realized that both semifinals will be aired live on ESPNU this year. So we've got something better than previous seasons where they'd show the first semifinal tape delayed...

And the #1 seed (some school named Valpo...) will play in the first game. They did set it up as a pretty tough turnaround for the other side of the bracket. A 9:30 PM tip on Monday...

[wh]

C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.

Oakland's expected RPI is 113.  That's a middle 15-seed. Valpo is the only team in the HL positioned for anything better than a 15. 

[crusaderjoe]

C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.

Cleveland State would like to buy you a drink.

[covufan]

When does our ESPN contract for the tournament ends?  (nobody seems to have answered this yet) 

Why would the HL let it end?  For the level of HL, ESPN on a Tuesday is the right choice.

[FWalum]

We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.

And, remember the reason this format was instituted was to protect the higher seeds and their potential NCAA RPIs/seedings.

I think there are a couple of issues going on here.  One is the outside perception of the HL and the other was getting the highest possible seed and then winning the most games in the NCAAT.

Obviously this format/location is a compromise and the best one probably realistically available. I don't know how many of you watched this HL video, but the perceptions expressed by these coaches (interesting which coaches either chose not to participate or weren't asked to express opinions) do represent how the leagues tournament was viewed as "small time" by many of those outside of the league including potential recruits wanting to play on the 'big" stage. 
Horizon League, Olympia Leaders Discuss #MotorCityMadness on Vimeo

I think that having the double bye, with only 2 games then required to win the title, is still a HUGE advantage. No other conference that I saw has such an advantage. Conference Tournament Formats For selfish reasons I understand all of those who feel betrayed by the league and that it seems when VU becomes dominate the format changes to make the tournament more "wide open". For us it stinks, but the HL is no longer "Butler's League" and needs to evolve to a conference that can be come an attractive "brand". Out of Conference scheduling guidelines need to be implemented NOW if we ever expect to be more than a single bid conference. While we are making some changes I say it is time to inject new blood into the League office. In his 24th year LeCrone has lead the league on a backwards trend (some people think this is just a one year fluke, but I don't think so) and we need a successor to be chosen and perhaps mentored over the next year.  Then give LeCrone a 25th anniversary send off.

[a3uge]

C'mon now a3uge. We both know that the current HL format is still stacked for one of the top 2 teams to win it which wouldn't be a 15 or 16 any year. Could a team go on a run and win it? Sure, but it could have happened under the old format too.


Let's go back and look at last season. After the first six minutes of the NCAAT game, we had already built ourselves a 2-11 whole against Maryland. That simply cannot happen if you are wanting to spring an upset in the tournament against a quality team. It takes awhile to adjust your shooting and sightlines in a big arena and sometimes it never happens at all (Houston Final4 4 years ago - -espn was talking about this just last week with the final 4 being there again as the last time they hosted it everyone shot an abysmal percentage). We did not play a neutral game last year since November and even then it wasn't in an NCAA tournament type facility. We have not played in any of these settings/arenas this year either. Maryland plays in these arenas and tournaments all the time. Getting our team some experience in a NCAA type setting and atmosphere heading into the NCAAT will be invaluable IMO.

I'm really curious about the $$$ aspect of it too. Could the HL be promised approximately the same amount of $$$ to host the tournament there as a win in the NCAAT? If it is close to being a wash, it would make sense to why the HL would switch it up (guaranteed money while still likely getting one of your top 2 teams into the dance).

I'm just as upset as most of you are that Valpo is not hosting the HL tournament here this week. I think that was a fantastic and well earned opportunity for the school to show off our area. And frankly, it is weird knowing that we won the HL but we don't get to host any more games here. Remember just because we got to host it still doesn't necessarily mean that we would have won the whole thing too. I think there are some positives which can be taken out of the switch because unfortunately it will not be going back to the old format. See you guys in Detroit. Just my 2 cents.

I think there is some merit to the thought that the top 2 seeds are protected, perhaps more so now to the 2 seed; instead of a big layover and getting a team coming off a win the night before on the same neutral court, they'll at least be playing a team that is competing in their 3rd consecutive day. I applaud that change.

However, this year the 2nd seed Oakland is a solid 15 seed. As wh said, their expected RPI is around 115. They'd have to leapfrog strong mid majors like UAB, UNC Wilmington, Yale, SFA, and Belmont. Historically, that RPI is a 15-16 seed.

I don't think you'll find much statistical significance behind playing the championship game in big neutral court gyms. Furthermore, the slight advantage you may gain would be wiped out by the statistically much poorer chance of winning in the championship game and making the tournament to begin with. Ask Murray State about gaining experience on a neutral court before the NCAA tournament. Would Valpo have erased a 10 point deficit last year if the game was on a neutral court? Would Green Bay have made only 1FG in the last 12 minutes? Probably not.

Valpo playing poorly in the opening minutes of the tournament is completely anecdotal evidence... just the game before, West Virginia opened up with a 7-0 run and held a 10 point lead at half vs Buffalo. We performed better vs a better team, despite the MAC Championship being held in a big empty stadium.

I could point to many examples that contradict your premise - FGCU in 2013 won the championship game at Mercer, then went to the Sweet 16. The next year Mercer won at FGCU and beat Duke in the opening round. Lehigh beat Duke after winning the Championship Game at Bucknell. Heck, Harvard didn't even have a Championship Game and won handily vs New Mexico. And of course, Butler had success in the Horizon with the same format. I'm not sure what the winning percentage in the tournament is for the non-neutral court teams vs their seed's winning percentage, but I'm sure you won't find much difference.

[oklahomamick]

Jerry Slocum shouldn't get an opinion on the conference tournament.