Supporting the Team in Detroit/Joe Louis Arena

[frontrowfan]

Headed to Detroit with our traveling group of 4.  We will watch every game.  There is economical lodging all around the arena and a people mover to transport to restaurants etc.  I have worked this territory for many years, feel completely safe and comfortable and look forward to enjoying 4 great days of college basketball.  Go Crusaders

[StlVUFan]

As most of you should know, I will be there at noon on Saturday for the entire tournament, and I will enjoy every game as I always used to in the Mid-Con days.  To be clear, I'm not implying that all games will be good games and super-exciting or anything like that.  I'm saying I'll enjoy spending the whole day watching tournament games.  Sunday will only be 2 games, but then I'm still comparing it to being able to enjoy 2 concurrent tournaments

OF COURSE as a selfish Valpo fan, I'm a little upset that this rug was pulled out from under us, BUT I don't think that's a valid reason to oppose it -- by the way, I do *not* agree that the double bye is earned by any team.  18 games is too small a sample size to prove who the best team in the conference is.  I was opposed to it in 2008 and I remain opposed to.  I enjoy it when Valpo has it, and I certainly enjoyed when the 2nd round, semifinals, and title games were at the ARC (for one thing, I could stay with my Dad and romp around my hometown, who wouldn't love that?), but I think it's overkill.  I think getting to play the 8-9 winner should be reward enough.

This idea that we should protect our top seeds is antithetical to the very spirit of competition.  If you're a top seed, you shouldn't need protection.  And I know full well why the HL went that way, I know all the arguments about benefiting the HL profile in March by doing your best to guarantee success (rather than just entry) in the NCAA tournament.  I have reached the point where I no longer favor such arguments.  At best I am indifferent.

At any rate, I fully understand the anger.  I just can't share in it for the most part.

[justducky]

Then give LeCrone a 25th anniversary send off.

Out of Conference scheduling guidelines need to be implemented NOW if we ever expect to be more than a single bid conference.

We have needed this for a long time but its "stand alone" corrective value has diminished with each passing season. The mid major basketball conferences now powerlessly serve at the behest of the big boys so competing amongst ourselves for marginal advantages gains us very little.

Could the establishment of some kind of mid major "Affiliation" be considered? I am thinking of an unshackled committee dedicated towards easing scheduling difficulties for each years best mid major candidates?

[Valpower]

1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.

Not sure about Milwaukee, but Mary Ellen Gillespie, the Green Bay AD, had her placement and contract with the school negotiated by the consulting firm of Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner who (along with the Oakland members of the Horizon League) are the ones pushing for the Detroit deal.  To be blunt, I'd guess it's a little quid pro quo.


http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/

[NativeCheesehead]

This seems very odd to me and a huge potential conflict of interest. If ML left and the the new AD was placed in this manner, what would we think? Personally, I'd wonder if they are acting in the best interest of Valpo or scratching the back of those that scratched theirs. One more reason to get the heck outta this conference.

[FWalum]

Saw the announcement from the HL offices that single session tickets were available.  I took a look, even though I will not be going to the tournament, rather I will be in Florida that week helping my Mother wrap up some things concerning my father's death in December.  Was very surprised to see that there are only about 425 single session seats available for the Semi-Finals.  Either Olympia Entertainment has done a better job than I had thought or they only have a limited number of single session tickets available because of school blocks and multi-session commitments.  I still expect the place to be only about 1/3 full for our first game.

[covufan]

Saw the announcement from the HL offices that single session tickets were available.  I took a look, even though I will not be going to the tournament, rather I will be in Florida that week helping my Mother wrap up some things concerning my father's death in December.  Was very surprised to see that there are only about 425 single session seats available for the Semi-Finals.  Either Olympia Entertainment has done a better job than I had thought or they only have a limited number of single session tickets available because of school blocks and multi-session commitments.  I still expect the place to be only about 1/3 full for our first game.

My guess would be that Olympia Entertainment is releasing the single session tickets in small blocks to fill in the lowermost levels that don't already have tickets sold.  Once (if) those 425 tickets are sold, they would open up some higher level seats in blocks of 4-500.  Just a guess.

[wh]

1. Does anyone know why the Wisconsin schools voted to go along with this tournament move? Based on the bit I've read on their forums, their fans aren't crazy about it either... but it sounds like a few are still going.

Not sure about Milwaukee, but Mary Ellen Gillespie, the Green Bay AD, had her placement and contract with the school negotiated by the consulting firm of Julie Roe Lach, the Horizon League Deputy Commissioner who (along with the Oakland members of the Horizon League) are the ones pushing for the Detroit deal.  To be blunt, I'd guess it's a little quid pro quo.


http://julieroelach.com/testimonials/

I assume this is the same Ms. Roe Lach?

Top Enforcement Officer of N.C.A.A. Is Ousted
N.C.A.A. Ousts Julie Roe Lach as Vice President of Enforcement

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0

[Valpower]

I assume this is the same Ms. Roe Lach?

Top Enforcement Officer of N.C.A.A. Is Ousted
N.C.A.A. Ousts Julie Roe Lach as Vice President of Enforcement

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/sports/ncaa-ousts-julie-roe-lach-as-vice-president-of-enforcement.html?referer=&_r=0

Correct.  She's ambitious.

[NativeCheesehead]

Wow. Just.....wow.  I'm assuming this was a case of "She was in charge of division that screwed up" kind of move more than pointing the finger at her specifically. But even so, that Miami case was a pretty serious screw up, and I know there was way more to that than what the media reported. This again leads me to ask, What's the agenda here? And what is the behind the scenes power structure of the conference office? This will warrant some more discussion in the offseason. It's going to make future decisions in the league office like my thoughts about "Making a Murderer" (Great series btw): I don't know if we ended up in the right place, but I know I don't like how we got here.

[agibson]

Alright, I'm in. Ordered my tickets through the alumni association. Against my financial self-interest, perhaps, but I'll count it a vote of confidence in the team that I bought tickets for both games. (I'll try not to think about what happens if the unthinkable happens... but probably there's at least a 10-20% chance... would I really stick around for the final?)

[HC]

I hope nobody is paying full price for these tickets. Think I saw one link advertising them for 40% off.

[agibson]

I hope nobody is paying full price for these tickets. Think I saw one link advertising them for 40% off.

There was one deal that I saw that looked _really_ good (half off? or $15 vs. $25?), but it was only for the Saturday.

If there's a better deal for the semis and finals than the $20 per day from the alumni association (with no add-ons, handling fees, etc.), let the board know!

[RedHawk]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but I think the structure of the tournament makes it a tough sell in a neutral environment.  Since the 1 and 2 seeds get the double bye, those fans are less likely to buy full packages. And the other teams are less likely to buy the full package because there's a good chance they won't be playing on Monday or Tuesday.

That being said, I like the double bye for conferences like the Horizon League who are traditional one-bid conferences.  I feel teams should be rewarded for their regular season efforts, not getting hot and winning a couple games in the conference tournament.  The double bye is a good solution.

Not sure if I'll go to the tournament for the finals (I'll be out of town on Monday), but Detroit can be a fun place to visit.

[historyman]

I think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair."  In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah.  Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.'  So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again. 

It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it.  We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up.  We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy.   But that's not what these people are looking for.  They want a gimmick, a shortcut.  At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance.  The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves. 

Maybe anger is the best political move. Maybe not.

[agibson]

So, in the end, were we appointed an official team bar in Detroit by the organizers?

Does anyone have a less official one in mind?

[wh]

I think it's important to remember that the "other schools" that have been perpetually bitching about the unfairness of the current format over the past couple of years are the same ones that unanimously voted for it in 2002 because the system they had at that time was "unfair."  In fact, the powers that be proclaimed the double bye, top seed hosted format as highly progressive, ahead of its time, a future trendsetter, blah, blah, blah.  Moreover, we weren't even a twinkle in our HL parent's eyes back then. By the time we came along, the league was fully entrenched in the system and as unfair as it seemed to us, we were simply told 'deal with it.'  So, deal with it we did, with 4 championships in the past 5 years and 2 (working on 3) NCAA tournament appearances. So, the same cry baby programs come out of the woodwork once again and along with our "entitled" newbie with their entitled AD and entitled coach cry foul once again. 

It should be obvious by now that these people aren't looking for equality of opportunity; they're looking for shortcuts to success to overcome their own ineptitude. I have zero sympathy for any of it.  We earned what we have - the hard way, against long odds, by the rules they set up.  We did it with hard work on the recruiting trail to recruit top-notch athletes of high character and moral standing, we did it with a superior coaching team with better leadership and X-and-0 skills, and we even did it with a better OOC scheduling strategy.   But that's not what these people are looking for.  They want a gimmick, a shortcut.  At this point, all I care about is us winning this "neutral" tournament - preferably in front of 150 people - and going to the Big Dance.  The HL office and its "commissioner" and the cry baby, sad sack programs that voted for this cluster can all F themselves. 

Maybe anger is the best political move. Maybe not.

As an anonymous observer on a sports message board with absolutely zero influence on any issue we discuss, I'm not overly concerned about choosing the best emotion to express frustration. That said, you should see me in action in a focus group where my opinion may count for something. I'm a master of diplomac articulation. 

[oklahomamick]

We have Green Bay and Milwaukee on our side of the HL bracket.  They are the highest seeds on our side and we will most likely see one of them. 

[oklahomamick]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/

[historyman]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/2016/02/27/horizon-league-tournament-joe-louis-arena/81064742/

John Ciszewski, the executive vice president of sales for Olympia Entertainment, believes the tournament will make the city a "destination" in early March.

What exactly is it about the HL tournament that will make Detroit a "destination" in the next five years? Only if Valpo shocks the world and gets to the Elite Eight/Final Four will more attention be paid to the HL tournament in Detroit. I guess every organization must have a goal and visualize that goal happening if there is any chance for that goal to actually happen.

[NativeCheesehead]

Funny part of this is, if the new Red Wings arena and surrounding area take off and develop as they hope, they probably tell the HL to buzz off when the five year contract is done.

[oklahomamick]

I'm cool with that.  Then maybe Chicago will play host.

[talksalot]

Then maybe Chicago will play host.

Shades of the '93-94 Mid-Con tournament at the Rosemont Arena...

[covufan]

John Ciszewski, the executive vice president of sales for Olympia Entertainment, believes the tournament will make the city a "destination" in early March.

I'm sure it will be a "destination" for up to dozens of people this weekend.  Not sure that would make it a true "destination", but you have to start somewhere, right?

What exactly is it about the HL tournament that will make Detroit a "destination" in the next five years? Only if Valpo shocks the world and gets to the Elite Eight/Final Four will more attention be paid to the HL tournament in Detroit. I guess every organization must have a goal and visualize that goal happening if there is any chance for that goal to actually happen.

You would need not only Valpo getting to the NCAA Elite Eight, but also more HL teams (three at least?) in the top 50 of some ranking system (RPI, Sagarin, etc.).  We need to have a good shot of more than one team making the NCAA tournament for several years.  Not going to happen soon.

[a3uge]

I think one of the biggest problems with the new format is that there's not really a clear advantage for the 1st seed compared to the 2nd seed. Valpo will probably play UWGB or UWM. Oakland will probably play Wright State or Detroit. There's not much difference between UWGB, UWM or Wright State - all have 17-12 records and similar RPIs. Finishing 2nd compared to 3rd place now is the more meaningful race, when in the past, finishing 1st was logically the most important feat.

Maybe this isn't even logically possible, but I think the Horizon should only do a single bye for the #2 seed. This would add another game for a theoretically decent team ($), and protect the #1 a bit more. Perhaps booting out the #10 team would also be helpful, as their horrible RPI would stop being another hit to the opponent's opponent record.

Also looked at other conferences - The MAC revamped their neutral site tournament in 2012 after 2010 and 2011 saw 6 and 9 seed winners. They moved to a graduated bye system where the top 2 seeds got a triple bye, while the top 4 got a double bye. In 2012, the 3 seed Ohio Bobcats won over the 1 seed, and then went on to the sweet 16 - so a really good team was still capable of winning their tournament. In 2013, 2014, and 2015 they've gone 1 vs 2.