2/28 - Green Bay @ Resch Center - Final Regular Season game

[valpo84]

Valpo just finished conference play 16-2.  It's road record 8-1.  Without looking this up, what other team has 8 road victories in their conference? I don't care what conference?  The Cheese Trip is the most difficult of the season and as others have said this was the game for UWM and UWGB.  The UWM game was on national TV and went OT.  We had clinched the title a week ago.  Road wins are road wins. Congrats to the team on one of the best Valpo regular seasons...ever.  Enjoy it for a day, get everyone healthy and a week of intense practices and be ready for ARC North. 

[Grizz]

Oakland is also 8-1 on the road

[frontrowfan]

Couldn't agree more

[vu72]

Oakland is also 8-1 on the road

Good point.  Valpo is also 8-1 at home.  How did Oakland do??   

[talksalot]

Without looking this up, what other team has 8 road victories in their conference? I don't care what conference? 

you KNOW I had to look it up....while 8-1 road is a great achievement... not totally rarified air up there...

A10 - St. Josephs is 7-1 with a road game at St. Bonaventure this weekend
BigEast - Nova is 8-1
Hawaii - 6-0 this weekend @ UCDavis and @LBState
Wichita State is 8-1
MtnWest - San Diego State is 7-1, @ Univ New Mexico this weekend
Southland - SFAustin is 6-0 with three road games left on their schedule
Ark Little Rock is 7-2, @ Appalachian State this weekend
Texas Southern is 6-2 with games @ Southern and @ Alcorn State coming up
Gonzaga is 8-1 on the road

[a3uge]

Couple random thoughts:

* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so  many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.

[VULB#62]

Spot-on a3uge on all  points 

[agibson]

Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.

I'll have to look for it. I loved the big grin on Shane's face. Very happy, relieved, maybe a little surprised?

I worry that we peaked too early - was it our experience showing early, and other teams have grown now than we have? But our ball movement's still been good, and Shane's growing into more serious minutes. After the early wins in Detroit these two games in Wiscinsin were already circled as the toughest left in the schedule, and we passed the test; maybe not an A, maybe not a B, but with injuries to two sometimes starters we passed the test.

Hopefully we can find another gear in rebounding, and can improve our awareness on box outs and of attacking players around the glass/boxing out, as certain other teams have stepped up.

I trust our defensive presence was felt - Green Bay killed us on the glass, but shot a vey low percentage.

[vu72]

Couple random thoughts:

* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so  many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.

Agreed other than you comment about never being in the at-large conversation.  We certainly were prior to losing to Wright State on the road and recovered enough to be back on the bubble until we lost to them at home.  Game over at that point.  Still, depending on upsets in conference tourneys, I think there may still be a chance.  This is a very weird year. As an example, assume we lose in the title game and Butler loses in the second round of their tourney.  Butler would be 21-10 having finished
tied for 5th in the regular season.  Would the committee take them over a 27-6 Valpo team?  Probably but then again, it can be hard to predict these things.  Just much better to go out and win the title.  Much much better then the NIT.

[a3uge]

Watching the replay of Shane's shot, my favorite part is watching Todd, who is on the end of the scorer's table, jump up and pump his fists while obviously trying to remain somewhat contained for the broadcast.

I'll have to look for it. I loved the big grin on Shane's face. Very happy, relieved, maybe a little surprised?

I worry that we peaked too early - was it our experience showing early, and other teams have grown now than we have? But our ball movement's still been good, and Shane's growing into more serious minutes. After the early wins in Detroit these two games in Wiscinsin were already circled as the toughest left in the schedule, and we passed the test; maybe not an A, maybe not a B, but with injuries to two sometimes starters we passed the test.

Hopefully we can find another gear in rebounding, and can improve our awareness on box outs and of attacking players around the glass/boxing out, as certain other teams have stepped up.

I trust our defensive presence was felt - Green Bay killed us on the glass, but shot a vey low percentage.

I seem to remember complaints about peaking too early last year. After beating UWGB at home, we struggled with UWM and Wright State before losing to Detroit. Then, we salvaged the regular season title by beating Cleveland State in another close game. We weren't firing on all cylinders either.

Momentum doesn't really exist... At least, not to the extent most people think. UWGB had a 5-game win streak by 8+ points going into their semi-finals loss in 2014. Butler had squeakers in 2010 to UWGB and Loyola at the end of the year.

[a3uge]

Couple random thoughts:

* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so  many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.

Agreed other than you comment about never being in the at-large conversation.  We certainly were prior to losing to Wright State on the road and recovered enough to be back on the bubble until we lost to them at home.  Game over at that point.  Still, depending on upsets in conference tourneys, I think there may still be a chance.  This is a very weird year. As an example, assume we lose in the title game and Butler loses in the second round of their tourney.  Butler would be 21-10 having finished
tied for 5th in the regular season.  Would the committee take them over a 27-6 Valpo team?  Probably but then again, it can be hard to predict these things.  Just much better to go out and win the title.  Much much better then the NIT.

This is literally an at-large conversation. We're being mentioned and discussed by multiple media pundits about a potential at-large bid. It doesn't mean we're getting an at-large, but we're certainly, for the first time, at least in the conversation.

[usc4valpo]

Valpo will not get an at large bid based on their strength of schedule.

[atkins]

This thread contains so many salient points and well-supported arguments. Our forum is small (far too small, in my opinion), but I cannot imagine a fan forum with a more reasoned or respectful group of posters. Sorry for the sappiness. 

[FWalum]

Couple random thoughts:

* We've just completed our best regular season in the history of Valpo's program. This is one of the best teams in Horizon League history - the last non-Butler team with a lower RPI was Milwaukee in 2002. This is with UIC murdering our RPI by 15 or more places. This is also the best RPI since Butler's 2010 NCAA runner up team, and will go lower if Valpo wins two more games. Valpo's never been in the at-large conversation, and very few Horizon League teams have been there as well. Yet, there's a consistent griping and moaning each week about how this team isn't reaching their potential, or how they're underperforming. If you're disappointed with this year's results, you're probably never going to be happy. If Valpo makes it to the tournament and loses, there's going to be griping about not winning a tournament game since the 90s. If Valpo makes it to the Sweet 16, the needle will move to the Final Four the next year. In my mind, that's just a depressing way to watch sports.
* With that being said, there's definitely the other end of the spectrum: we're way too good for the Horizon League and it's a shame we have to play schools that aren't at our level academically. It took Butler back to back championship games and a handful of other tournament appearances and wins to finally break out of the conference. And now we're too good for everybody because we've gone to the tournament as a 13 and 14 seed? Sure, at this point (the last 5 years) we are the gold standard for the conference, but really, we haven't won a tournament game since the 90s and have a long ways to go before really being a consistently dominant mid major like Wichita State or Butler in the 2000's.
* Teams get tripped up on the road in conference. We played one of our worst games on Sunday (so  many sloppy turnovers, rebounding mistakes) and still found a way to win on the road. That's usually a mark of a great team. I thought UWM and UWGB played really well both games, and some of Valpo's biggest strengths - their bench and rebounding, was wiped out due to injuries. That was my gripe with the good UWGB teams that did so well the past few years - they couldn't seem to get it done when it counted, and couldn't seem to overcome adversity.
* Skara and Tevonn are good rebounders - Skara especially on the offensive end. Not only that, but their presence allows the starters to get a good rest. That would have been helpful against a team like UWGB who likes to run.
* Darner is a great coach if he's able to win 19 or 20 games using his style of play with Wardles slow, defensive-minded recruits. I liked how Springs played, and Hurdle was pretty tenacious. I've never been a huge fan of Fouse, but Love made some clutch plays at the end.
* UWGB and UWM SHOULD be much easier the second time around. They'll be playing their third game in three days and we'll hopefully have our bench back.

Sure we all would have loved to win these games comfortably, but it is SO difficult to win in-conference on the road playing for the second time.  I just don't think many of you realize that fact. 

I couldn't have said the rest any better myself.

[HailVU2014]

Some great points have already been said on this thread, especially several by a3uge that I wholeheartedly agree with!

For those that think we have regressed in the last four games, I think that the close nature of the games and the increase in opponents' offensive production (all 4 had more than one point per possession) is simply that the 2nd matchup is always tougher than the first, the team is seriously tired after giving it their all for 31 regular season games, and the final 3 games were more "tune up" games rather than "must-wins" (and getting all three wins was just icing on the cake.) Sitting right behind the Valpo bench in Green Bay, our team just seemed so gassed. Green Bay was giving us their everything and our lack of depth for the game just wore us out, the heavy breathing by KC and AP was just something I hadn't seen in a long while from our guys.

I think that the Wisconsin road trip is exactly what our team needed. Two close games, including our first OT game, that gave our team practice on the close game scenario and gave us the late game "catch up" scenario. Our HL schedule made for 13 double digit wins and that doesn't help when we need the grind out games that come with March. These two Wisconsin games were a huge confidence builder IMO. The goosebumps and "March Feeling" that came with the end of the Green Bay game I really think will rejuvenate the team going forward, as they now feel and realize what is at stake with each game going forward (as if they really needed a reminder?). I still have the butterflies several days after Hammink making that shot with 2.2 seconds left. Plus, seeing as a Wisconsin school rematch is likely for the semis, these closes games will be fresh in our minds and push us to do better from the tip to the final buzzer.

Also, a win at the Resch Center is huge, regardless if it was by 2 or 20. We have not done well in Green Bay historically, so just winning in Green Bay should be plenty of a boost for our mentality going into the HL Tourney. It is the first win at GB for most of the team (sans Vashil?)

[agibson]

It is the first win at GB for most of the team (sans Vashil?)

Yep. And Vashil only played 4 minutes in that first game.

I suppose he may well have been there for the loss in 2012 as well. Has seen four losses, two wins there, perhaps.

[StlVUFan]

Why did Bryce not put a tall guy on the in-bound pass?  I know Ole Miss had a player on the in bound pass and got beat but I would think you want to make the passer throw the ball over a guy rather than leaving his vision wide open.

Um, the Kampe trick play, maybe?

[StlVUFan]

I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs. 

Actually, it can be argued that they rewarded us even more than last year by making the other teams in our brackets play Saturday and Sunday before playing us on Monday instead of playing on Tuesday, then resting for 2 days, then playing on Friday.

What they took away was the advantage our fans had gotten used to (myself included).

[a3uge]

I'm most frustrated with the Horizon League and screwing us out of hosting the tourney. This is the worst mistake you could have made by not rewarding your regular season champs. 

Actually, it can be argued that they rewarded us even more than last year by making the other teams in our brackets play Saturday and Sunday before playing us on Monday instead of playing on Tuesday, then resting for 2 days, then playing on Friday.

What they took away was the advantage our fans had gotten used to (myself included).

And the advantage over the two seed...

[StlVUFan]

Not that much of one for the team, moreso for the fans

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[a3uge]

Not that much of one for the team, moreso for the fans

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

I think playing at home vs Green Bay last year was a huge advantage to the team... The advantage over the 4,5,7,etc seeds is probably better now, but there's no advantage at all over the 2 seed, other than playing a theoretically easier team.

[StlVUFan]

That's more an emotional opinion than a rational one.  I'm sure the team would wholeheartedly agree with you, but I don't know how you would measure how much of an advantage it was for the team.  I can measure how much of an advantage it was for our fans, however.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[a3uge]

That's more an emotional opinion than a rational one.  I'm sure the team would wholeheartedly agree with you, but I don't know how you would measure how much of an advantage it was for the team.  I can measure how much of an advantage it was for our fans, however.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

The advantage a home team has over a road team is hardly an emotional opinion - statistically teams do better at home than on the road.

[StlVUFan]

How much better?  I didn't say there was no advantage, I said I don't see how you quantity it.  You said huge.

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[ValpoHoops]

Historically, home teams win 70% of games. This is obviously skewed by "guarantee" games, but it's the reason that the NCAA change their RPI calculations.

Road wins are worth 1.4, losses worth 0.6
Home wins are worth 0.6, losses worth 1.4