Game 32: Green Bay at Joe Louis Arena - Horizon League Semifinals - 3/7/16

[valpotx]

We don't have any chance in hell of getting an at-large.  We have one quality win.  Monmouth (several wins against Power 5 teams) and Wichita State would get in over us, if we are the three being discussed.  Our non-conference SOS was fantastic, but our overall SOS is crap due to the conference this year.  Our RPI will probably end up in the mid/upper 40s, and that won't be good enough. 

[Valpower]

I thought it would be a challenge to win without Tevonn tonight. The decline in our offense since his injury and his subsequently dubious return have been obvious. Our offense was good when he was able to penetrate and finish but inconsistent when absent. I thought we might find a new offensive flow tonight when E. Victor challenged and scored on his first two attempts. The third possession after that I saw the team pass the ball like a hot potato, completely unable to capitalize on the attention that E. Victor had drawn, and I had a sense it was going to be a loooong game.

I think we thought we should win because we've been without key players in the past and won. But the reality is that Valpo was able to win those games because the competition was relatively weak. Now, unfortunately, it was peaking and it wasn't so easy. In the end, I think the NCAA Tournament competition would have been easier because members of your own conference don't fear you nor do they generally find any great shame in losing such that it will cause them to choke.

[a3uge]

If Oregon State beats Oregon for the Pac 12 tournament title, would Valpo look better as an at-large?

There was a slim chance with a championship game loss, but not now. Wichita State losing, Monmouth losing - just not good.

[valpotx]

I didn't attack him, I just pointed out what I perceived as a fallacy in his statement.  In my view, you don't come to our forum after this loss, unless it is to soak in our tears.  I was just pointing out what seemed obvious, that you don't make a comment like that, unless you want to rub it in. 

[hailcrusaders]

when you have a team that can legitimately beat someone in the NCAA tourney?

I don't get it, why* can Valpo beat teams in the NCAA tourney but other teams can't?  Over the past few weeks, haven't we have played right at the same level as Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland?  Just look at the recent games we've played!  I know we thought we were an amazing super team this season that would outshine the rest of the league, but right now we're no better than the other top teams in the conference -- which means, not very good in the big picture. *Seeding, I guess.  But the spirit of the original comment was, "we're good enough to play with the big boys, unlike these other teams".  There's been no evidence lately that we're capable of playing with big boys ... we settled right down to the level of Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland when all was said and done.  No better.

Aside from WSU, we beat all of those teams in their own house. There will be a half-dozen at-larges in the NCAA tournament who wouldn't have beat all three of them on the road.

[usc4valpo]

sorry, but the NIT is a huge letdown. It's like winning a plastic participation trophy at a dance competition.

[atkins]

The debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws.  Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

[nkvu]

This has been a very strange year compared to last year.  Last year the team got better as the season went on. Once Carter came back from the toe injury the rotation was pretty much set and everybody knew their roles. This year the team started out great but became unsettled particularly at the 3 slot with first D Walker starting and not getting the job done, then Skara starting and not getting the job done followed by Shane/E Victor with both seeming to be trying to play point at the same time as Carter.  It was pretty clear that by the second time through the league other teams had figured out how to score on us while our offense seemed disjointed at times.  Factor in injuries to Skara and then the even more significant one to T Walker and you end up with a team that seemed to have lost it's identity at conference tournament time, the worst possible moment. Hence the loss tonight.

[a3uge]

The debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws. Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

Lol, you're so ridiculous. SO RIDICULOUS.

[hailcrusaders]

The debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws. Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

Lol, you're so ridiculous. SO RIDICULOUS.

I think we'd be a middle-of-the-pack Big Ten team. We peaked earlier in the year, but some of our January performances would have been good enough to handle several Big Ten teams on the road.

[usc4valpo]

Valpo would also be a middle of the pack Pac 12 team. and a bottom third in the Big 12

[justducky]

I didn't listen to Todd but was there something wrong with D Walker as well? He was out for a long stretch and at no time looked to be himself. With no Tevonn, David looking to be 85%, we needed help from Darien. Was he sick?


If EVN had a usable wrist his senior season could have been so much different. He showed flashes tonight but when you can't control your own dribble 

Jubrils 3 point attempt (from the corner) had a much higher probability of going in than 3 of Alec's and 2 of Darien's shots.Keeping yourself out of a hole is much easier than digging out of one.
Any team that can uncork 13-27 or whatever they were from 3 is going to be hard to stop.

Never was much of a double bye fan. Sitting for 8 or 9 days carries its drawbacks.

[a3uge]

What is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season? 

[valpopal]

When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.


This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.


LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 



All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

[justducky]

Any team that can uncork 13-27 or whatever they were from 3 is going to be hard to stop.

12 of 22 for 54.5 % vs our 9 of 27. Other than being shorthanded that was the decisive game difference.

[hailcrusaders]

What is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season?

Asking ourselves if we're more or less worthy than some high-majors who will make the Dance. Obviously a pipe dream, not like we're joining the Big Ten anytime soon, but it's easy to complain about how life isn't fair when you're pissed off.

[atkins]

]

What is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season?

Because we need to punch above our weight class in order to schedule decent ooc games and enhance revenue.  Power conferences get the respect and money that mid-majors don't.  Just ask Butler...They bolted to a power conference as soon as they could. 

[oklahomamick]

We dominated this league in 18 games.  Only a few teams have won this league by 3 games.  We set new records for the HL.  Dominated the  season, did not in tournament game. 

[valpotx]

I always thought that Butler fans were morons for the things that they said about LeCrone, but those statements make me think that they weren't too far off lol.  I must have still been wearing my HL-colored glasses, since we were finally out of the Mid-Con.

[ValpoDad89]

I was at the game tonight and I will first say, the venue is horrendous. The "Joe" had its place in hockey lore but for a team that plays in "Hockeytown" they let that arena fade. Seats are probably as old as the arena (1979), paint coming off rails and a floor that is old school theatre sticky. As the game started there were maybe 1500 fans if that. In a 20K arena for b-ball that sure makes the place look cavernous. Second, I am thinking they started giving away tickets to anyone walking by or near the JLA. About half way through the game multiple throngs of people are coming, have no idea where the sitting and just stand right in front of you as play is going on. You ask them can you move a little bit and you swear you just insulted their mother. Lastly, I am not a big fan of the double bye either and especially on a neutral court. UWGB played outstanding but we were playing in an arena not used for hoops at all except for the tournament so no one has any idea to sight lines, etc. Then you play a team that has just won consecutive games on this court. They do have an advantage. And I never bought the "fatigue" argument. you are 18-22 years old, you got mucho energy and add momentum to the equation, you got gas in your tank. At the end of the day we should've won, made an amazing comeback but lost in the end.

As for the game, difference I saw was UWGB was lights out in spurts in both the 1 and 2H from 3. They beat us, the fresher team, to more 50/50 balls which screams of desire more than anything. Not sure if the team just thought Peters would bail them out again or what but there was definite lack of intensity. Another BIG factor was UWGB shot 53 FTs I believe to our 32. I have not been impressed w/ the Horizon League officials at all this year and tonight was no exception. They'd let some physical play go for a stretch then call some ticky tack stuff. The call on Carter on the loose ball w/ like 3 to go was a joke. The screen on Adekoya in OT was an even bigger joke. I saw the whole thing right on and the UWGB kid a bad acting job and still sold it in OT no less. The only way you call anything is if it egregious enough. Peters hit the 3 and we would've been up 1 or 2 at that point and instead went down 5. Also, Adekoya's shot in the waning was not bad at all. He actually had a good look and the ball was in the cylinder rattling around and bounced out. A skoch softer and it's in and ball game is totally different.

Anyway, good season. Drew didn't help his cause for a better gig tonight, if he was looking to upgrade so that may be a blessing. I guess the frustrating part is this team was poised this year to possibly make a decent run in the tourney. Losing in the semis all but burst that bubble.

[VULB#62]

When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.

This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.

LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 

All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

So, back aways, we were left in the dust by a bunch of present HL schools who bailed on the Mid-Con ( and Valpo's many runs to the title) leaving Valpo to stew for a few years. Then we get a invite to the HL (yippee!) but it's not the same HL it used to be, and we start to dominate the MBB championships just like we did in the Mid-Con. So the league (including the teams that bailed on us back in the Mid-Con days) kind of unilaterally changes the format to a "neutral" site in Detroit. In the first year of the revamped tournament, Valpo, the regular season champ and the team with the best RPI and SOS and the best chance to get a respectable NCAA seeding as a HL representative is upset. And the HL commissioner cites this as a great thing for the league. Ahhhh....... Don't you get the odd feeling that Valpo is not really welcome in this league and maybe never was?

[justducky]

WSU wins! That double bye advantage has got to be illegalized.

[nkvu]

So it's Wright State v Green Bay in the final before maybe what 500 fans unless they give out tickets for free to whoever happens by the Joe?  No best team. No POY. At best a 15 seed in the dance with little to no chance to actually win a game?  Serves the Horizon league right.

[wh]

When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.

This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.

LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 

All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

So, back aways, we were left in the dust by a bunch of present HL schools who bailed on the Mid-Con ( and Valpo's many runs to the title) leaving Valpo to stew for a few years. Then we get a invite to the HL (yippee!) but it's not the same HL it used to be, and we start to dominate the MBB championships just like we did in the Mid-Con. So the league (including the teams that bailed on us back in the Mid-Con days) kind of unilaterally changes the format to a "neutral" site in Detroit. In the first year of the revamped tournament, Valpo, the regular season champ and the team with the best RPI and SOS and the best chance to get a respectable NCAA seeding as a HL representative is upset. And the HL commissioner cites this as a great thing for the league. Ahhhh....... Don't you get the odd feeling that Valpo is not really welcome in this league and maybe never was?

100% right. Excellent post.

[wh]

So it's Wright State v Green Bay in the final before maybe what 500 fans unless they give out tickets for free to whoever happens by the Joe?  No best team. No POY. At best a 15 seed in the dance with little to no chance to actually win a game?  Serves the Horizon league right.

Exactly!