NIT

[agibson]

AML talked about the second round game being on the 17th or the 21st.  Those dates would not conflict with the tournament.

I don't think Thursday the 17th is an option, from the NIT. Last year 2nd round games were Sunday and Monday, with a couple Friday and Saturday. This year's window is the same (last I checked).

Monday may be an option (subject to availability of the court for practice, etc.).

[FWalum]

Frankly, I don't want to hear another word about a middle school tournament.  We are a division one basketball program, number one seed in the NIT, which we have never done before.

The tournament can move, cancel, cry.  I don't give a damn.  Time to grow up and stop being so small time.

I really hope you don't have to explain it to the boys at St Paul's in Fort Wayne, like FWAlum might be forced to do, when they move their tournament away from Valpo.

Members of the St Paul Ft Wayne basketball team

Marks, Isaac
Pancake, Will
Goodwin, Caleb
Evan, Johnston
Baker, Lennox
Gutman, Joe
Sims, Drew
Walker, Rod
Quintana, Chayanne
Craig, Cleevas

Coach Jerry Ratzburg

Look them in the eye and tell them you decided to move their tournament. It's not these boys' fault.

Yes, I would catch a lot of flak if this disrupts the LBAA tournament.  Not only am I involved with St Paul's but my Godson plays on the Fort Wayne Holy Cross team that I would have to think is a favorite to win the tournament. It is obvious that most of the forum members have no idea what a big deal this tournament is and the good impression it makes for VU on hundreds of kids and their parents.  There will be teams from California, Texas, Florida and other far flung locations competing in this tournament.  Changing times and locations is not really an option.  It has been held continuously at VU for the last 45 years. The tournament started in 1946 and was held at various places including VU prior to 1971 http://lbaa.org/lbaa-history/. If you live in the VU area I would recommend that you go see for your self what a 64 (32 boys and 32 girls teams) team tournament with a winner and consolation bracket looks like, especially the first two days with games going simultaneously on 4 courts in the ARC.  The Olympic type processional and devotion in the Chapel on Thursday night is also a real treat.  I was shocked the first time I went and was told I needed to get to the Chapel an hour to 45 minutes early if I wanted a good seat. When was the last time you saw the Chapel this full other than graduation?


Check out their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/LutheranBasketballNationalTournament

[Kyle321n]

When was the last time you saw the Chapel this full other than graduation?

Off the top of my head, Vespers and the opening of the fall semester are always "sell outs" at the Chapel. I joked 2 years ago at Vespers that if half those people showed up to the basketball game I'd be shocked. There were under 2500 people at the ARC at the next day against Loyola Marymount.

[vu84v2]

Honestly, Valparaiso cannot just cancel the basketball tournament. Beyond the ethical nature of cancelling, there are likely contract issues too. That being said, Valpo cannot play a second round NIT game anyplace other than the ARC. Playing Monday seems like a great option (also has the benefit of not being on the same day as NCAA tournament games). If that cannot be worked out (and don't underestimate the power and inflexibility of TV contracts), then the basketball tournament needs to accept moving to another venue, changing times, etc. Valpo needs to bring options and the basketball tournament needs to be flexible. Keep everything friendly, but a lot of effort needs to be put forth with considerations on future years included in the discussion.

My fear is that the people involved will not put forth the effort and funds necessary to make this all work. Options like moving one of the day's games will require paying for the alternative facilities, busing, etc. These are costs that Valpo would need to cover and should cover if it comes to that. I said before that not finding a workable solution for all parties is a failure of leadership...where leadership requires working effective relationships, developing a wide set of feasible options, and having the resources necessary to execute on the optimal solution.

[NativeCheesehead]

All kidding aside, there has to be a workable solution, and if the university and LBAA have that good a relationship i'm sure they can make it happen. Start a little earlier in the day, end a little later, half day of games at BF's fieldhouse. Something. With the hostile political climate out there, this is an excellent chance for both sides to show their christianity and work with each other.

All I know is if i'm Bryce and after all i've been through the past few weeks, and ML tells me I have to give up the home court i've earned....i'm having my agent call Stanford that night.

[VULB#62]

How many of us have looked at the brackets that were previously posted below?  If you haven't, please do.  And then you try to find a way to make this all work.  I confess that it was not until today that I did and was struck by the enormity and tight scheduling involved.

They are not your simple one-and-done brackets.  Sunday is jam packed with games from morning to the Boys final starting at 3:30  On Sunday, Hilltop Gym is going full tilt as well as the ARC floor.  It's not just a question of moving 1 or 2 games.  There are boys and girls finals, 3rd & 4th place games, consolation round finals, etc. -- all on Sunday. The 64 teams represent nearly 1000 players plus coaches and parents. A good portion of that population will be in action in Sunday's events.

There is no room (floor space or locker room) for a game day morning shoot-around/practice much less time to set up for an evening NIT game.  And if what was said about LABB travelers taking up every hotel room in a 30 mile radius, any visiting team would not find convenient hotel space except for maybe in Chicago.

I originally thought it would be a simple arrangement to just move the Sunday LABB Finals to VHS to clear Sunday. No way. So, I am now convinced that a Monday night game is the way to go.

[vu84v2]

I agree that a Monday night second round game is the best option. That said, if TV (or any other party that runs the NIT) does not allow that you must find a solution where Valpo can play at home on Sunday. Anything else sends the wrong message not only to Bryce (and I agree that he may be on the phone to his agent if Valpo cannot play at home), but to any current or future players. It is not hard  to imagine Valpo's players taking the court on the road (when they earned the right to play at home) thinking "man, this should be on our home court". Coaches recruiting against Valpo are going to tell future recruits, "what a nice thing Valpo did to not disrupt the middle school basketball tournament. They really are nice people. It is really unfortunate though that they had to make their flagship athletic team play on the road and create such a disadvantage for their players".

Potential attendance at the second round game is not very relevant. The message it sends about the program is most relevant. Additionally, wouldn't it be significantly better to play in front of 2000-2500 Valpo fans without traveling instead of in a foreign stadium with 2000-4000 of their fans?

Hotels?  Solve the problem.

All of the other issues (which are admittedly complex)? Solve the problems.

Good leaders solve problems in situations like this. And solving the problems requires enough money to solve them.

Valpo fans should be extremely disappointed if Valpo comes out and says, "we tried to work with ESPN and the NIT to play the game on Mpnday, but they could not support this and unfortunately we will need to play at _____________. We encourage everyone to support Valpo as they try to further advance in the NIT". If this happens, call or send letters to ML and the university president. However, if they work out a solution Valpo fans should contact them and commend them on working through a tough situation.

[agibson]

Off the top of my head, Vespers and the opening of the fall semester are always "sell outs" at the Chapel.

Add MLK day, at least. But great to see so many kids in the chapel!

I'm glad FWalum is able to give us a first-person account of the importance and history of the LBAA tournament.

A tough situation, I have good (pretty good?) confidence that the parties involved will work/have worked to find an amicable solution.

[vu84v2]

I am not as optimistic. KU had ESPN schedule their final home game/senior day at the same time as the Kansas caucuses. Given the caucus times, you could not go to the game and vote in the Democratic caucus and had really tight timing to vote in the Republican caucus. KU asked ESPN to change it and ESPN declined. ESPN will solely make the call on whether Monday is acceptable and has no sympathy towards other issues.

[agibson]

ESPN will solely make the call on whether Monday is acceptable and has no sympathy towards other issues.

In 2015 the second round was all ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU. No ESPN3, which the first round utilized, in part (this year and last year). I don't know if it's a _rule_ that second round can't be ESPN3. Presumably ESPN cares less about the game time if it's on ESPN3 (though I do wonder how we got the late tip tonight).

VU might be flexible about the game time on Monday, if practice times can be worked out Sunday (assuming that's mandatory). And Monday should be one of ESPN's two big target days (Sunday/Monday). It seems like reasonable parties (VU and LBAA, if not ESPN?) should be able to figure something out; maybe even if ESPN's not being particularly cooperative.

[talksalot]

Can we win tonight's game first?

Remember the Mantra:

  _________ THINGS _________

[Valpo89]

Monday seems like the most logical day to play a second-round game anyway.
Why would ESPN want to go up against NCAA games Thursday through Sunday?

I'm sure VU and Davidson/Florida State could practice somewhere else on Sunday - VHS, BF, The Courts - and then be able to use the ARC Monday morning.

[VULB#62]

Can we win tonight's game first?

Remember the Mantra:

  __GOOD_ THINGS __HAPPEN__

[Kyle321n]

Alright, instead of baseless speculation let's look at what happened last season in round two games.

Friday (1 game):	Wednesday team played Wednesday team
Saturday (1 game):	Tuesday team played Tuesday team
Sunday (3 games):	Tuesday team played Tuesday team
	Wednesday team played Wednesday team
	Tuesday team played Wednesday team
Monday (3 games):	Tuesday team played  Tuesday
	Tuesday team played Tuesday
	Wednesday team played Wednesday

We'd be a Tuesday vs. Tuesday game so there's a 50-50 shot of them playing on Monday vs. Saturday/Sunday. Last year there were 9 Tuesday games and 7 Wednesday games, and we're set up the exact same way. Since there's the LBAA tourney on Sunday, then we'll almost assuredly play on Monday. It's not going to look like we're pushing the game back for a youth basketball tournament, but that's because that's how the NIT works.

[d0uble3m]

Man, the ARC would be bursting at the seams if they could somehow coordinate the LBAA tourney and keep the Valpo v. Davidson/FSU game either Saturday or Sunday night.  Wouldn't it be some kind of consolidation if VU said "sorry for the last minute reshuffle, but here's a couple of tickets to get the kids to see Valpo play an ACC team prime time"?

I think the kids could get over that pretty quick... What an unexpected, but great, experience!

[WiscoCrusader]

I stand by my former statement.  If Valpo advances to a game which conflicts with the Middle School tournament, and does not move or cancel the Middle School tournament, myself and thousands of other Valpo fans are done with this program.

You don't forfeit an advanced round NIT home game for anything that has "Middle School" associated with it.  You can list all the names you want, they will get over it.  Consider it a "life lesson".

[VULB#62]

THE ANNOUNCERS JUST STATED THAT IF WE WIN TONIGHT WE WILL FACE DAVIDSON FSU ON THURSDAY NIGHT.

[valpo84]

Oh my crisis averted...everyone can breathe

[talksalot]

Crisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in!   6pm tip.  Same announcers... not sure of the network.

OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912  Incredible !!  and the chairback people were really into the game !!!!!

[a3uge]

Valpo and st marys are gonna have to rep for the mid majors. Every mid major that played a major lost today

Wichita State?

[a3uge]

I thought it was implied that I was talking NIT

Yes, just nice seeing Vanderbilt lose.

[justducky]

Crisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in!   6pm tip.  Same announcers... not sure of the network.

OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912  Incredible !! 

That reported attendance appears to have been a true attendance. Looking around my estimate was 3800 which may highlight how inaccurate our regular season announced attendance is.

[agibson]

Oh my crisis averted...everyone can breathe

I do wonder if it was easy or hard.

Network is ESPN News (?!). I was surprised to learn I got it.

Does it require some adjustment to the junior high schedule? Don't they start Thursday?

ESPN/NCAA/NIT don't make a big deal about the windows for games on their web sites, but I thought this was a day before their window. Obviously a day before any of the games last year. I wonder if it was some sort of compromise.

Paul Oren suggests going up against St. Patrick's day and the NCAA will be tough.

Unexpectedly good crowd in the ARC tonight - hopefully holds true Thursday as well. Big chance against an ACC team.

[agibson]

That reported attendance appears to have been a true attendance. Looking around my estimate was 3800 which may highlight how inaccurate our regular season announced attendance is.

3000 might be about right. My thought was 3000 maybe 3500. Bottom of the mezzanine was jammed, but upper part relatively empty.

I was pleasantly surprised, pulling up, how full the parking was. Early arriving too - almost no one walking in when I was, for the last of the VU lineup announcements.

[VULB#62]

I'm glad so many of you are getting back into this season. Although the NIT is not the dance, it is a well respected forum for displaying who we are as a university and a BB program. It certainly is not a "losers tournament" that the cgi, cit OT whatever they call them are. The NIT field is essentially a mid major showcase and the 32 slots some people advocate as the true first round to the NCAA -- except it's freakin after the fact.

During the telecast a graphic came up of the the winners of I think it was the last 5 NIT champions and three of the five went on to NCAA tourney wins or more the following year. Premise:  the NIT  is a proven springboard to future success.