LeCrone "spins" Detroit as success

[wh]

Horizon League happy with move to Detroit

Paul Oren Times Correspondent Updated Mar 8, 2016 

Valparaiso men's basketball coach Bryce Drew could only let out a snide laugh when he was asked following Monday night's 99-92 overtime loss to Green Bay if the Crusaders would've won the game had it been held at the Athletics-Recreation Center.

The Horizon League made the decision to move the tournament to a neutral site this season, agreeing to a 5-year deal with Olympia Entertainment to host the tournament at Joe Louis Arena for two years before moving to the newly-constructed Detroit Events Center for the remainder of the deal.

The decision affected the Crusaders this year as they played their first game in a cavernous arena which likely didn't help shooting numbers as Valparaiso struggled to adapt to its surroundings. Green Bay, which played two games to get to the semifinal, has seen its shooting percentages rise with each game in the tournament.

"We didn't shoot the ball well (tonight) and I'd like to think we would've shot better (at the ARC)," Drew said. "That's an irrelevant question because it wasn't the case."

Before Monday night's games began Horizon League Commissioner Jon LeCrone addressed the media and spoke highly of the move to Detroit and the support the league has gotten from Olympia and the community.

"We wanted everyone to feel like a champion," LeCrone said. "That was really year one what we wanted to accomplish. We were focused on everything that touched the student-athletes. We're really proud of the work we've done."

Changes on Horizon?: LeCrone mentioned that there could be several changes coming down the line pertaining to the Horizon League tournament bracket or even the way teams schedule opponents during the conference season.

LeCrone and the Horizon League came under fire from Wright State coach Billy Donlon on Sunday afternoon as the fifth-year coach criticized the way the league handled the double-bye situation for Oakland while the Raiders were forced to play two games just to reach the semifinals, despite tying the Grizzlies in the standings.

"(Donlon's comments) were fine with me except I disagreed with the forum," LeCrone said. "We had a conversation about it. I have no problem at all with the issues he raised. It was on our agenda (this weekend) and we already knew we were going to discuss it. We'll look at a number of brackets."

LeCrone also alluded that the conference could rethink its scheduling, possibly doing away with the double round-robin during the regular-season. Valparaiso had a RPI of 18 when its nonconference schedule came to a close, and the Crusaders entered the Horizon League tournament with a RPI of 39 after having to play several conference bottom-feeders twice.

"There are different ways to do it," LeCrone said. "The double round-robin, maybe it's time to look beyond that. The NCAA doesn't require that. They just require we tell them how we're going to select our champion. We've never been shy about doing things differently."

[Smj]

Antigone want to share your thoughts on the horizon league Facebook page - they appear to allow anyone to post to it. ...

Go Valpo!

[oklahomamick]

LeCrone also alluded that the conference could rethink its scheduling, possibly doing away with the double round-robin during the regular-season. Valparaiso had a RPI of 18 when its nonconference schedule came to a close, and the Crusaders entered the Horizon League tournament with a RPI of 39 after having to play several conference bottom-feeders twice.    

HL sure didn't help us this year.  Tournament relocation and RPI anchors killed our season that looked so promising with an RPI of 18!  Has it ever been that high? 

[valpo84]

It's time to replace LeCrone.

Also, I have seen a couple times that this was Valpo's first game in a "cavernous" arena.  The Q in Cleveland is an NBA arena so we had a tune up game (including all the empty seats) in an arena in mid-February.  CSU scheduled 4 games there this year.  We need to make sure in scheduling that we visit more bigger arenas (time to go back to Chicago Stadium aka United Center) or play in the Rosemont Horizon Arena it will really simulate the Horizon Tourney cause it's usually nearly empty if DePaul is still playing there.

[valpo84]

And how is a non-double round robin going to work?  So we might get bottom feeders 2x still and then face top division maybe 1x in year 1 and then flipped in year 2.  This isn't the B1G where you get good RPI teams in the bottom half?  The other alternative is to add better teams, not the NKUs of the world (which was vociferously opposed).  We would be better off as an Independent (aka the new Notre Dame). 

[VULB#62]

I notice by its absence in the commissioner's comments the need to develop and enforce OCSOS scheduling guidelines.  The league could be proactive in this by working as hard as possible to initiate an early season "Challenge" series with a similar Mid-major conference.

The biggest lesson we and Oakland both learned (after the fact to the detriment of the league's NCAA seeding stature)  and one that needs to be addressed immediately for next season's tournament is that the double bye suits a tournament where the #1 seed hosts; however, it actually is a liability for the #1 and #2 seeds when the tournament is at a neutral site -- especially one like the Joe. If they stay at the Joe, the HL needs to change to the MVC/WCC model with two play-in games by the last 4 seeds and then a standard bracket.  The only difference I saw in the two conference brackets is that the WCC has a break of one day before the semis. That still means two games in a row to win the final.  Wouldn't a 1 day break before the final be better for the  finalists?

[valpo84]

Maybe be relegate the bad Horizon teams to the Summit and have the good Summit teams (and maybe cut a deal with OVC too) advance to our conference.  So you could have the highest RPIs playing each other during that year.  If you can't keep your RPI above 100 each year, boom lower division.  The Horizon, Summit and OVC divisions.  The 3 conferences would need to recognize the need for having the best of the leagues play each other. Throw in some requirements for non-conf scheduling. 

[classof2014]

LeCrone is an absolute buffoon. He's an idiot plain and simple. He has completely ruined the integrity of the Horizon League. There was a time not too long ago the HL was damn close to being a top-10 conference. A lot of that had to do with Butler but there were other schools that were successful. Watching the game on Monday night I would cringe whenever they said the HL is as strong as ever. Are these guys idiots!?! You have perennial bottom feeders with RPIs well south of 250. NKU stinks, UIC stinks, YSU stinks, CSU stunk (this year). Every year the HL seems to have 3-4 teams that can barely muster 10 wins, including DII games. There is without a question Valpo deserves to be in the NCAA tournament, will they? No. LeCrone did nothing to help Valpo make it to the tournament. Instead Green Bay will get a 15 seed and will be one-and-done. It wasn't too long ago when the HL had 4 or 5 quality mid-major programs that would've been given something higher than a 15 seed. In 2010 there was Butler, Valpo, Milwaukee, and Cleveland State that were all within a game of winning the regular season. Valpo needs to do whatever they can to get out of the HL. If not I have a feeling that we'll eventually be brought down to the level of many of the other programs and be back to a normal mid-major. Hopefully we don't look back to this era in Valpo basketball and go 'What if?' although I have a terrible feeling that is the case.

Thanks again LeCrone, you took the Horizon League which was once a promising mid-major conference and have done nothing but run it into the ground.

[VULB#62]

LeCrone is an absolute buffoon. He's an idiot plain and simple. He has completely ruined the integrity of the Horizon League. There was a time not too long ago the HL was damn close to being a top-10 conference. A lot of that had to do with Butler but there were other schools that were successful. Watching the game on Monday night I would cringe whenever they said the HL is as strong as ever. Are these guys idiots!?! You have perennial bottom feeders with RPIs well south of 250. NKU stinks, UIC stinks, YSU stinks, CSU stunk (this year). Every year the HL seems to have 3-4 teams that can barely muster 10 wins, including DII games. There is without a question Valpo deserves to be in the NCAA tournament, will they? No. LeCrone did nothing to help Valpo make it to the tournament. Instead Green Bay will get a 15 seed and will be one-and-done. It wasn't too long ago when the HL had 4 or 5 quality mid-major programs that would've been given something higher than a 15 seed. In 2010 there was Butler, Valpo, Milwaukee, and Cleveland State that were all within a game of winning the regular season. Valpo needs to do whatever they can to get out of the HL. If not I have a feeling that we'll eventually be brought down to the level of many of the other programs and be back to a normal mid-major. Hopefully we don't look back to this era in Valpo basketball and go 'What if?' although I have a terrible feeling that is the case.

Thanks again LeCrone, you took the Horizon League which was once a promising mid-major conference and have done nothing but run it into the ground.

But where do we go if we get out?  Right now, there is no movement among mid-major conferences that would be advantageous to VU. 

I am resigned to the fact that Valpo must do something, however, but we are restricted to INSIDE the HL to improve our, and other schools' position.  Our University AD and President need to start putting great pressure on the Commissioner to perform and hold him to it through a coalition of like minded HL schools. WSU, right now seems like an allie for starters .  In business, (and make no mistake, D-I BB is business) managers and execs are measured by performance.  What are the commissioner's performance criteria? Who measures LeCrone's?  The Presidents and ADs, right?  He has been given a free pass much too long.

[a3uge]

LeCrone commenting that it might be time to change the double round robin to protect some of the top teams RPIs is absurd. THEN WHY DID YOU ADD NKU THIS YEAR?? He knew they'd be an RPI killer in their first year. I thought the whole point of adding them was to create travel partners for a balanced schedule!

Also, no, Valpo isn't going independent. That's absurd.

And no, there's not going to be relegation between three leagues.

No, we're not going to the A10. We're probably not going to the MVC any time soon either - not until our facilities improve dramatically.

Finally, no, there's not going to be a magical mid major league spawn up overnight.

[vu72]

Part of the RPI problems of the Horizon stem from the transfers.  CSU easily would have been s top 100 team had Forbes, Lewis and Grady not moved along o greener pastures.  Seems to me that another one of their starters also left.  YSU also had kids bolt. UIC had all-freshman Pat Birt leave for Tulsa, We lost Brandon a few years ago.  I'm sure there are others.

One or two CSU situations and you have a significant change.  Not sure there is an answer to kids wanting to improve their situation.  People on this board have discussed the possibility of Alec and Keith (if eligible for an additional year) moving along for their final year.  What will our RPI be next year if that happened?

It is the same for other mid-majors.  Once you think you have corrected a problem another one pops up.

[Kyle321n]

If we're going to try to help fix this conference then we need to do it right.

1. The Double Round Robin isn't what killed our RPI. Playing the unbalanced schedule still would have had us play 2 games vs UIC in order to preserve "Rivalry Games" with the travel partners. If we go to unbalance schedules and Detroit-Oakland and Milwaukee-Green Bay doesn't happen twice a season this league will lose a lot. Watch those games, they are important to the league and their fans. And they are great rivalries. I only hope that NKU-Wright St. and Valpo-UIC will eventually get to a level the Metro Series is.

2. The Double bye did actually hurt the league this year. Oakland shot way below their season and league average in their game vs. Wright St and it's not like they were playing a defensive juggernaut. Every team shot poorly in their first game at the Joe. Having a set up similar to the MVC where they have 8-9 and 7-10 games in the first round and then the second round is 1-8/9, 2-7/10, 3-6, and 4-5.  Hell reseed the second, and third round if you want, so your top seeds are rewarded for advancing.

3. We need an OOC schedule reform. Let's set it up to where if you are returning over 60% of your minutes, you should be required to play at least 5 top 100 RPI teams from the previous season and if you are losing more than 70% of your minutes it should be recommended that you not play more than 3 top 150 RPI teams from the previous season. Let's set it up so we are challenging the league by getting some tough schedules. There's no reason Wright St. should have scheduled the way they did. Why would you schedule top 15 teams Kentucky and Xavier while the rest of your schedule is an average of 212 KenPom. And you went 4-5 while not playing a team in the top 150? Terrible.

[talksalot]

Just looked at the 2017 NCAA tournament sites list... interesting

date               host conference     host school       location
March 17, 19   Horizon                 IUPUI             Indianapolis   Bankers Life Fieldhouse

[ValpoHoops]

Wouldn't a 1 day break before the final be better for the  finalists?

The break is for the women's quarterfinal games. The men play their four games one day, the women the next, then both sets of semis and finals are the same day.

[crusaderjoe]

And how is a non-double round robin going to work?  So we might get bottom feeders 2x still and then face top division maybe 1x in year 1 and then flipped in year 2.  This isn't the B1G where you get good RPI teams in the bottom half?  The other alternative is to add better teams, not the NKUs of the world (which was vociferously opposed).  We would be better off as an Independent (aka the new Notre Dame). 

We can debate the timing of the addition, but I don't think NKU was a terrible add.  However, I do agree with you that if the HL is looking to drop the double round robin, the conference should seriously consider expanding, and look to 11 or 12 teams teams in the near forseeable future, with at least one "heavy hitter" if going beyond 11. Actually, 11 is probably the better number since you could still schedule an even number of conference games in a non-double round robin format with only one team addition and adding only one school (as opposed to two or three) might be easier to digest since we're talking about an all sports add.  A packaged deal to get that "heavy hitter" might be required however. So the question is where are these addition(s) going to come from?  From what conference?  MVC, OVC, Colonial, Patriot, WAC, Summit?  Where?  Plus, I don't think the HL is entertaining expansion anytime soon, so the point is probably moot.  But I do agree with you on that point.

[a3uge]

If we're going to try to help fix this conference then we need to do it right.

1. The Double Round Robin isn't what killed our RPI. Playing the unbalanced schedule still would have had us play 2 games vs UIC in order to preserve "Rivalry Games" with the travel partners. If we go to unbalance schedules and Detroit-Oakland and Milwaukee-Green Bay doesn't happen twice a season this league will lose a lot. Watch those games, they are important to the league and their fans. And they are great rivalries. I only hope that NKU-Wright St. and Valpo-UIC will eventually get to a level the Metro Series is.

2. The Double bye did actually hurt the league this year. Oakland shot way below their season and league average in their game vs. Wright St and it's not like they were playing a defensive juggernaut. Every team shot poorly in their first game at the Joe. Having a set up similar to the MVC where they have 8-9 and 7-10 games in the first round and then the second round is 1-8/9, 2-7/10, 3-6, and 4-5.  Hell reseed the second, and third round if you want, so your top seeds are rewarded for advancing.

3. We need an OOC schedule reform. Let's set it up to where if you are returning over 60% of your minutes, you should be required to play at least 5 top 100 RPI teams from the previous season and if you are losing more than 70% of your minutes it should be recommended that you not play more than 3 top 150 RPI teams from the previous season. Let's set it up so we are challenging the league by getting some tough schedules. There's no reason Wright St. should have scheduled the way they did. Why would you schedule top 15 teams Kentucky and Xavier while the rest of your schedule is an average of 212 KenPom. And you went 4-5 while not playing a team in the top 150? Terrible.

It's really impossible to enforce this, as it's really difficult for mid majors to schedule. I think the league could potentially cap the amount of buy-games for teams that finished, say, below 100 RPI the previous year. The league could compensate for this (what have we been doing with the Butler money again?).

Guarding against bad SOS might be difficult. You may end up with teams not being able to schedule any D1 home games (because that's all they can afford or find) and instead they'd settle for non d1 games. Plus some games are scheduled a year or two in advance. This certainly isn't the Horizon's problem the past few year - it's mainly been over-scheduling, not weak scheduling.

Just looked at the 2017 NCAA tournament sites list... interesting

date               host conference     host school       location
March 17, 19   Horizon                 IUPUI             Indianapolis   Bankers Life Fieldhouse

In 2011 or 2012 when Indy hosted, there was both a Horizon and IUPUI logo on the court, if that's what you're getting at.

[agibson]

It's pretty hard for me to imagine a non-round robin working, for RPI protection. Who's going to agree to play in the B league?

One could imagine a results-based promotion/relegation system (within one league), but it seems highly unlikely.

[covufan]

Quote from: talksalot on Today at 09:22:37 AMJust looked at the 2017 NCAA tournament sites list... interestingdate               host conference     host school       locationMarch 17, 19   Horizon                 IUPUI             Indianapolis   Bankers Life FieldhouseIn 2011 or 2012 when Indy hosted, there was both a Horizon and IUPUI logo on the court, if that's what you're getting at.
                     
                  
                  
                     
                     
                     
                        

My guess would be that when Indy and Bankers Life Fieldhouse put in the bid to host the first/second round that the Horizon League (and Butler at the time?) was the host conference, and now that Butler is out of the Horizon, the closest Division I school is IUPUI.  Just a guess

[NativeCheesehead]

Agree with everything said on LeCrony and HL. One thought though. I'm worried about our own house right now. Yes, men's basketball rules this league. As it should for monetary purposes.

But what's to prevent other HL schools, specifically GB, saying to us, "You're about to award a contract extension to a women's basketball coach who's 32-90 in four years. How does that help the conference? What did playing you twice do to our RPI and seeding?"

I realize this is a little bit apples and oranges, but still....

[talksalot]

Ivy League just announced that next year, they will have a post-season tournament... with their top-4-teams... at the Palestra... 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3

http://ivyleague.com/information/general_releases/2015-16/releases/The_Ivy_League_Adds_Mens-Womens_Basketball_Tournaments_Beginning_in_2017

[valpo84]

Guess academics aren't so important in the Ivy League anymore. 

[VULB#62]

The Ivy going to a 4 team tourney?  That brings up an interesting point.  Why do we have to have all teams participate?  Why not just the top 8 or even the top 6 (like soccer)? Wouldn't that be an incentive to the weaker teams to upgrade so as not to be left out ( a form of relegation, no?)  Right now the bottom feeders are not penalized, other than seeding, for poor in-season performance.   This also guarantees that the participating RPIs are more top end.

[agibson]

Guess academics aren't so important in the Ivy League anymore. 

Their press release seems to spin it in-part based on academics, or they're at least trying to respect them. It comes with a one-game reduction in the regular season schedule.  If it's a Saturday-Sunday tournament it would seem pretty respectful.

[a3uge]

The Ivy going to a 4 team tourney?  That brings up an interesting point.  Why do we have to have all teams participate?  Why not just the top 8 or even the top 6 (like soccer)? Wouldn't that be an incentive to the weaker teams to upgrade so as not to be left out ( a form of relegation, no?)  Right now the bottom feeders are not penalized, other than seeding, for poor in-season performance.   This also guarantees that the participating RPIs are more top end.

$$$

[agibson]

The Ivy going to a 4 team tourney?  That brings up an interesting point.  Why do we have to have all teams participate?  Why not just the top 8 or even the top 6 (like soccer)? Wouldn't that be an incentive to the weaker teams to upgrade so as not to be left out ( a form of relegation, no?)  Right now the bottom feeders are not penalized, other than seeding, for poor in-season performance.   This also guarantees that the participating RPIs are more top end.

Indeed, he Ivy makes it sound kind of appealing. Going to a regular season AQ is a big jump, but maybe the Ivy's middle position could be achievable.

Maybe take Donlon's two four-game tournaments, and just eliminate the first. Let the top four seeds slug it out. The 4 vs 5 tie-breakers become important, but maybe that's more palatable than the 2 vs 3 split.

Probably impossible under the Olympia contract, unless maybe you left the other six teams slog it out for a consolation prize.