Put Up or Shut Up Time for Valpo

Just Sayin · March 16, 2016, 06:20:39 PM

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/jim-peters-put-up-or-shut-up-time-for-valpo/article_5f5ea92f-cfca-5990-8d4e-8a8045f2159c.html

VULB#62 · March 16, 2016, 07:16:35 PM

A number of omitted words throughout that indicated nobody edited it, but, overall, a nice piece. Bringing in Mike Davis' comments added to the respective due to Mike's Power 5 background and experience.

justducky · March 16, 2016, 07:39:21 PM

Georgia leading Belmont 62-49 with 11 minutes to go. Winner travels to St.Mary's for the right to (we hope) come to the ARC.

No way in a million years that FSU would have agreed to come to Valpo unless it was required in their NIT participation. This is an opportunity for one and maybe two great OOC opponents. We have been given lemons. Lets make some lemon aid.

ValpoHoops · March 16, 2016, 08:06:41 PM

Quote from: justducky on March 16, 2016, 07:39:21 PMLets make some lemon aid.

crusaderjoe · March 17, 2016, 08:52:46 AM

From the article:

"A loss Tuesday to the Southwest Athletic Conference runner-up would have been a kick in the credibility behind to a Valpo program still seemingly in need of a respect bump on the national scale. Now they have what they want. A few wins over name schools and a trip to New York can help change that."

Not to overstate the obvious, but a huge game tonight, for a variety of reasons. Would you consider a loss tonight at home a step backward for the program as a whole or would it be just another loss and inconsequential in the long run? IMO, if you place tonight's game against the context of the quote, the loss would be a definite step backward. What do you guys think?

historyman · March 17, 2016, 09:51:44 AM

Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 17, 2016, 08:52:46 AM
From the article:

"A loss Tuesday to the Southwest Athletic Conference runner-up would have been a kick in the credibility behind to a Valpo program still seemingly in need of a respect bump on the national scale. Now they have what they want. A few wins over name schools and a trip to New York can help change that."

Not to overstate the obvious, but a huge game tonight, for a variety of reasons. Would you consider a loss tonight at home a step backward for the program as a whole or would it be just another loss and inconsequential in the long run? IMO, if you place tonight's game against the context of the quote, the loss would be a definite step backward. What do you guys think?

Let's look at the history (because I like to do those kind of things

). Was the loss to Columbia at home in the post season a "step backward" for the Valpo program?

VULB#62 · March 17, 2016, 10:01:39 AM

I think, proportionally, that a win has a greater upside than a loss would have a downside. A loss would not be inconsequential, yet it also would not be the death knell of the program. OTOH, the further we progress in the NIT bracket, the higher the returns in terms of recognition and building blocks for 2016-17.

crusaderjoe · March 17, 2016, 10:33:41 AM

Quote from: historyman on March 17, 2016, 09:51:44 AM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 17, 2016, 08:52:46 AM
From the article:

"A loss Tuesday to the Southwest Athletic Conference runner-up would have been a kick in the credibility behind to a Valpo program still seemingly in need of a respect bump on the national scale. Now they have what they want. A few wins over name schools and a trip to New York can help change that."

Not to overstate the obvious, but a huge game tonight, for a variety of reasons. Would you consider a loss tonight at home a step backward for the program as a whole or would it be just another loss and inconsequential in the long run? IMO, if you place tonight's game against the context of the quote, the loss would be a definite step backward. What do you guys think?
Let's look at the history (because I like to do those kind of things ). Was the loss to Columbia at home in the post season a "step backward" for the Valpo program?

No, not at all, IMO. But then again, to be fair, is Columbia a "name school"? The quote from the article gives the impression that Valpo needs "a respect bump." FSU is a name school and part of a P5. I guess when juxtaposed against the quote, it would seem to me that tonight's game would be more important than Columbia in that regard. Taken against this context, I think that a loss tonight would be a step backward. Standing alone however, without reference to the quote, I'm not really sure whether a loss would be though. Hopefully this discussion becomes moot anyway with a win.

Valpo89 · March 17, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

I agree about needing the respect bump nationally, but moving forward here's what it could entail:
Win - no "Power 5" will come here as long as the current regime remains in place. You think scheduling was a pain before?
Lose - maybe a "Power 5" comes here once in a while?

agibson · March 17, 2016, 11:14:39 AM

Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 17, 2016, 08:52:46 AMWould you consider a loss tonight at home a step backward for the program as a whole or would it be just another loss and inconsequential in the long run?

I don't want to put too much weight on tonight's game as any kind of "must win" because the teams are relatively evenly matched. On a neutral court FSU might even be the favorites.

That said, it's a big opportunity to show that Valpo Basketball can (still) achieve post-season success. And to show that Oregon State wasn't a one-off fluke.

Alec's really stepped up the last few weeks, in a way many hoped he would all season. Keith has been big too. We had a great first half Tuesday, at least, from Darien. If we can get three or four players at least to put in high quality performances, we can be back close to our A game, and this post-season can still be something really special.

A loss tonight would be understandable. But, it would also be a missed opportunity, and would feel a bit like "same old pretty good Valpo team that can never quite get over the bar".

It should be a great game, and it'll definitely be fun to see the extent to which this really is a different kind of Valpo team. We've talked about how this team is the closed we've had to "Power 5" size and athleticism. Let's see how it goes tonight.

And I do love these "offense vs. defense" "unstoppable force vs. immovable object" match-ups.

Go Valpo!

bbtds · March 17, 2016, 01:12:29 PM

Quote from: Valpo89 on March 17, 2016, 11:05:26 AM
I agree about needing the respect bump nationally, but moving forward here's what it could entail:
Win - no "Power 5" will come here as long as the current regime remains in place. You think scheduling was a pain before?
Lose - maybe a "Power 5" comes here once in a while?

Certainly fits the definition of a catch 22. Is it better to win and then no Power 5 team will play at Valpo or lose so a Power 5 team will maybe play at Valpo in a future game where if Valpo wins they will not get another Power 5 game at the ARC.

Kyle321n · March 17, 2016, 01:21:04 PM

Quote from: bbtds on March 17, 2016, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 17, 2016, 11:05:26 AM
I agree about needing the respect bump nationally, but moving forward here's what it could entail:
Win - no "Power 5" will come here as long as the current regime remains in place. You think scheduling was a pain before?
Lose - maybe a "Power 5" comes here once in a while?

Certainly fits the definition of a catch 22. Is it better to win and then no Power 5 team will play at Valpo or lose so a Power 5 team will maybe play at Valpo in a future game where if Valpo wins they will not get another Power 5 game at the ARC.

Win now, worry about the future later. If we win the whole shebang we could get some good preseason tournaments in the future where we play some power fives on true neutral courts.

covufan · March 17, 2016, 02:10:24 PM

Quote from: bbtds on March 17, 2016, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 17, 2016, 11:05:26 AM
I agree about needing the respect bump nationally, but moving forward here's what it could entail:
Win - no "Power 5" will come here as long as the current regime remains in place. You think scheduling was a pain before?
Lose - maybe a "Power 5" comes here once in a while?

Certainly fits the definition of a catch 22. Is it better to win and then no Power 5 team will play at Valpo or lose so a Power 5 team will maybe play at Valpo in a future game where if Valpo wins they will not get another Power 5 game at the ARC.

The only way you play the game (any game) is to win.

FWalum · March 17, 2016, 03:58:44 PM

Sheesh, I don't think Butler ever worried about beaten power five conference teams and look what I got them.

nkvu · March 17, 2016, 09:10:45 PM

I guess we have the answer to the thread topic!

valpo84 · March 18, 2016, 11:17:20 AM

Winning against Power 5s (anytime) helps the overall confidence of the program. That's how Butler and Zaga began to move to the top of the Mid-Major world. Each win instills confidence in the system and the players coming in that this school can win big games. When you walk on the floor, you know you can compete and win. Yale and Wichita State yesterday looked like they could play with and win those games. This team in Columbus last year, in the Oregon games this year and against FSU looked like they could compete and WIN those games. They looked determined and confident. Vashil's eyes early 2d half looked like he wanted it. His play elevated (til the 4th foul). Alec's confidence is showing. KC can play with any PG in the country and they understand that. The guys on the bench and the recruits/commits to Valpo know what is expected and start to carry that on. That's how you build the program. From 98 to 99, we came out with that confidence and beat South Carolina and Seton Hall, neutral court, back to back nights. Unfortunately, we were unable to sustain going forward and missed chances against UK in STL, against Wisconsin at Madison, etc. Butler and Zaga were able to continue to build their program-wide confidence. Want to be big time, have a program that acts big time. Whoever said it is right, get to NYC, and you become more nationally recognized as a perennial mid-major power and people will now want you in their tourneys and willing to play you in other places or their homes. Look at Wichita State following their NIT win.

oklahomamick · March 18, 2016, 11:37:41 AM

I hope we had some recruits on campus to witness last nights team and environment.

wh · March 18, 2016, 12:27:41 PM

Quote from: FWalum on March 17, 2016, 03:58:44 PM
Sheesh, I don't think Butler ever worried about beaten power five conference teams and look what I got them.

I don't believe we're in a Catch-22 situation as to our ability to attract Power-5 teams to come to the ARC. In Valpo's entire D-1 history I can count on 1 hand the number of majors that have come into the ARC. Over that time we've have outstanding teams, mediocre team and everything in between. It's never mattered. Big time programs simply won't come in here.

agibson · March 18, 2016, 12:36:35 PM

Quote from: wh on March 18, 2016, 12:27:41 PMI don't believe we're in a Catch-22 situation as to our ability to attract Power-5 teams to come to the ARC. In Valpo's entire D-1 history I can count on 1 hand the number of majors that have come into the ARC. Over that time we've have outstanding teams, mediocre team and everything in between. It's never mattered. Big time programs simply won't come in here.

I think that's right. The difference may be that with lesser Valpo teams we've been able to get games on the road, at least against the very best teams (remember the string of, was it four years, playing the #1 team in the nation?). This year we couldn't even get those, except at Oregon/Oregon State as part of the in-season tournament.

mj · March 18, 2016, 12:38:41 PM

The ARC is known as a tough place to win a road game. If the ARC becomes a place that's just about impossible to win a road game, would that attract more power 5 teams? The mid-major Cameron if you will. Maybe we can market a win at the ARC as an accomplishment.

justducky · March 18, 2016, 12:46:04 PM

Quote from: agibson on March 18, 2016, 12:36:35 PMI think that's right. The difference may be that with lesser Valpo teams we've been able to get games on the road, at least against the very best teams (remember the string of, was it four years, playing the #1 team in the nation?). This year we couldn't even get those, except at Oregon/Oregon State as part of the in-season tournament.

I am glad that Oregon St was able to survive our BAD LOSS and still make the tournament. Oregon taking a chance on us and winning might have helped get them that #1 seed! Wish that Butler, ND, Purdue, Indiana and others would grow a little backbone and allow us back on the schedule.

wh · March 18, 2016, 01:51:06 PM

I do wonder if those who got all worked up thinking the kids tournament was about to get screwed are feeling a little embarrassed right now. "They have their rights, they have a signed contract, it's impossible to change anything, nothing can be moved, on and on."

It's nice to know that university and tournament officials were able to rise above the fray and find a solution that meets the needs of all concerned.

talksalot · April 03, 2016, 10:21:26 AM

Found this interesting (and kinda funny) ... a blog on the Kentucky website after they were sent to play At Robert Morris in the 2013 NIT... comments about 1) playing them 2) playing in the Robert Morris gym because UK was hosting the NCAA....

(Why the P5 won't play in Valpo)...

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/1/robert-morris-3056-capacity-gym/

OH, FWIW... the final score in the game: RMU 59 Kentucky 57