Where is Peters next season?

rink · May 20, 2016, 10:20:15 PM

Quote from: articleI didn't want it to end. I loved the team we had.

I don't know why, but the tone of this made me think it's over. Hope I'm wrong.

nkvu · May 20, 2016, 10:58:52 PM

Quote from: rink on May 20, 2016, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: articleI didn't want it to end. I loved the team we had.

I don't know why, but the tone of this made me think it's over. Hope I'm wrong.

If Carter had gotten another year and Skara had not been a pawn in a sleazy power play then maybe if Peters didn't go pro then maybe he would have finished at Valpo. Now with greatly reduced chances of the team making national noise next season unfortunately it makes some sense for him to try to shine with P5 team to up his chances of an NBA draft selection.

But mid majors have got to address the issue of paying for summer school classes that enable their best players to graduate early and move immediately to P5 schools. Otherwise they are reduced to being farm clubs for the big boys.

VULB#62 · May 21, 2016, 08:15:32 AM

It appears that there is a different bunch of 6 working out for Denver today based some of the other stories posted around Alec's.

Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2016, 10:04:41 PM
Q and A with Alec:

http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/prospect-qa-alec-peters-052016

vu72 · May 21, 2016, 08:56:03 AM

Quote from: nkvu on May 20, 2016, 10:58:52 PM
Quote from: rink on May 20, 2016, 10:20:15 PM
Quote from: articleI didn't want it to end. I loved the team we had.

I don't know why, but the tone of this made me think it's over. Hope I'm wrong.

If Carter had gotten another year and Skara had not been a pawn in a sleazy power play then maybe if Peters didn't go pro then maybe he would have finished at Valpo. Now with greatly reduced chances of the team making national noise next season unfortunately it makes some sense for him to try to shine with P5 team to up his chances of an NBA draft selection.

But mid majors have got to address the issue of paying for summer school classes that enable their best players to graduate early and move immediately to P5 schools. Otherwise they are reduced to being farm clubs for the big boys.

This has been hashed and rehashed but it seems to me that playing at Valpo won't hurt and could very well help his chances with the NBA. At Valpo he will be THE guy. Unless he decides to play at a low level P5 team he probably won't be THE guy. If you look at most Mock drafts, about 25% of the players (15) are from overseas or Mid-majors. If the pros can find guys overseas, they certainly will find time to watch Alec play at Valpo.

VULB#62 · May 21, 2016, 10:35:34 AM

I'm with you 72. I also think Matt knows that too and will design more "Alec plays" that will enable him to carry the team in games and be even more featured. It's a win-win for Alec and Valpo. Alec has an opportunity and the skills to not only be "the guy" on our team, he will dominate most games in the HL. And with Felder gone the HL will make him the the face of the HL. I think his exposure to the pros these couple of weeks will have had a positive impact on his take charge attitude i.e., give him even greater confidence than he had last year. If he opts for a P5 he would have to adjust to a new coach, a new system, possibly a new role, and he would be breaking into an established roster and team culture. On top of that, as you mentioned, he probably will not be "the guy" like he would be at Valpo (unless he went to a weaker P5 team). But that is my avatar doing the talking

nkvu · May 21, 2016, 11:49:40 AM

Quote from: VULB#62 on May 21, 2016, 10:35:34 AM
I'm with you 72. I also think Matt knows that too and will design more "Alec plays" that will enable him to carry the team in games and be even more featured. It's a win-win for Alec and Valpo. Alec has an opportunity and the skills to not only be "the guy" on our team, he will dominate most games in the HL. And with Felder gone the HL will make him the the face of the HL. I think his exposure to the pros these couple of weeks will have had a positive impact on his take charge attitude i.e., give him even greater confidence than he had last year. If he opts for a P5 he would have to adjust to a new coach, a new system, possibly a new role, and he would be breaking into an established roster and team culture. On top of that, as you mentioned, he probably will not be "the guy" like he would be at Valpo (unless he went to a weaker P5 team). But that is my avatar doing the talking

Hope he sees it your way.

valpotx · May 21, 2016, 08:17:06 PM

He also mentioned that he likes the underdog mentality. He wouldn't get that at a Power 5, and if he goes to a weak Power 5, he won't win like he wants to.

chef · May 21, 2016, 10:24:17 PM

There's no chance Alec will be at Vandy next season. Can we stop this speculation. It's not going to happen.

usc4valpo · May 22, 2016, 08:42:59 AM

There is also no chance Alec will be in the NBA next year, we should close that argument also.

VULB#62 · May 22, 2016, 10:12:00 AM

Quote from: usc4valpo on May 22, 2016, 08:42:59 AM
There is also no chance Alec will be in the NBA next year, we should close that argument also.

Let's wait to close this on May 25th.

valpotx · May 22, 2016, 01:44:53 PM

If he is not at Vandy, I can't see him going anywhere else at this point. He wouldn't have talked to any coaches at other schools, even though his AAU/HS coaches will have done so. I can't see Alec wanting to start at another school and getting to know a coach he hasn't played with, unless he spends the majority of his summer getting acclimated. The longer he doesn't declare as a Graduate Transfer, the more it works in our favor.

Valpo89 · May 23, 2016, 01:59:16 PM

Sounds like Valpo could really use Peters against Kentucky next season.

sliman · May 23, 2016, 03:35:25 PM

Hope it pays well. Should be a "memorable" experience for the players.

vu72 · May 23, 2016, 05:11:36 PM

Quote from: IrishDawg on May 23, 2016, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 21, 2016, 10:35:34 AM
I'm with you 72. I also think Matt knows that too and will design more "Alec plays" that will enable him to carry the team in games and be even more featured. It's a win-win for Alec and Valpo. Alec has an opportunity and the skills to not only be "the guy" on our team, he will dominate most games in the HL. And with Felder gone the HL will make him the the face of the HL. I think his exposure to the pros these couple of weeks will have had a positive impact on his take charge attitude i.e., give him even greater confidence than he had last year. If he opts for a P5 he would have to adjust to a new coach, a new system, possibly a new role, and he would be breaking into an established roster and team culture. On top of that, as you mentioned, he probably will not be "the guy" like he would be at Valpo (unless he went to a weaker P5 team). But that is my avatar doing the talking

A counter to that which I'm sure has at least been presented to his HS and AAU coaches is that at a Football 5/Big East program, he's going to be practicing with and playing against a much higher level of competition that will do a better job of preparing him for the NBA than playing at Valpo against the teams in the Horizon League. Also, even if he is the 2nd or 3rd option on one of those teams, he'll still get more exposure than he would as the face of the Horizon League. The pitch will also be that the coaching, strength training and other facilities at these programs are well above what he'd get at Valpo, and again, would help get his game to the point where he could play in the NBA or be drafted even higher than what he could get at Valpo. The flip side is that if he isn't ready for the league, playing at one of those programs is going to expose the holes in his game a lot faster than playing in the Horizon League will, so it isn't all positives from that standpoint. Also, if Valpo truly does design the offense around him (and they should), he'll be able to showcase the full range of his abilities more frequently, even if it is against lesser competition.

In my opinion, if he does come back to Valpo, it's more out of loyalty to the program and school (which isn't a bad thing) than it is a decision based strictly on his professional future. You can get discovered no matter where you are by NBA scouts, but if the decision is purely about playing and preparing to play at the next level, then only in the rarest of circumstances (i.e. Gonzaga, Wichita State) are you going to be just as well off as you would be in a non-Football 5/Big East program. I say this knowing that whether or not Peters does transfer, he isn't coming to Butler, so I'm not saying this because I hope he is leaning one way or the other. Just my opinion.

Interesting Dawg, but I'm not buying it. Weight training? Really? Have you checked out the bio of Valpo's strength training staff? What? Are the weights more pleasing to the eye? Other facilities? Alec has plenty of baskets to shoot at. More comfortable rooms in which to relax? I'll bite on that one. Better foosball tables? Probably.

As for better guys to practice against? I love this one. This is the same stuff posted about Skara, although the teams mentioned (Georgia Tech, TCU, among others) were all ranked lower than Valpo (Sagarin). When you look at the Power 5, again via the Sagarin's, Valpo was ranke higher then 7 teams in the ACC, 7 teams in the Big10, 4 teams in the Big12, 10 teams in the Southeastern, and 8 teams in the Pac12.

That does leave some teams with better players but if he ends up going to one of the best teams and thus a Nationally ranked top 25, clearly he will be one of several very good and probable NBA candidates who aren't going to be very happy about the grad transfer guy who is a strong Christian, and who probably may not "fit" very well after missing years together with the others, wanting to get their minutes and their shots.

vu72 · May 23, 2016, 09:30:10 PM

Quote from: IrishDawg on May 23, 2016, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 23, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Interesting Dawg, but I'm not buying it. Weight training? Really? Have you checked out the bio of Valpo's strength training staff? What? Are the weights more pleasing to the eye? Other facilities? Alec has plenty of baskets to shoot at. More comfortable rooms in which to relax? I'll bite on that one. Better foosball tables? Probably.

As for better guys to practice against? I love this one. This is the same stuff posted about Skara, although the teams mentioned (Georgia Tech, TCU, among others) were all ranked lower than Valpo (Sagarin). When you look at the Power 5, again via the Sagarin's, Valpo was ranke higher then 7 teams in the ACC, 7 teams in the Big10, 4 teams in the Big12, 10 teams in the Southeastern, and 8 teams in the Pac12.

That does leave some teams with better players but if he ends up going to one of the best teams and thus a Nationally ranked top 25, clearly he will be one of several very good and probable NBA candidates who aren't going to be very happy about the grad transfer guy who is a strong Christian, and who probably may not "fit" very well after missing years together with the others, wanting to get their minutes and their shots.

I should have clarified. If Peters were to transfer, it wouldn't be to a TCU or Georgia Tech or other bottom tier Football 5 school that Valpo outperformed as a team the last few seasons. He could go to the elite of the elite, the Dukes, the Marylands, Arizonas, Kentuckys, Michigan States of the world would all come knocking on his door. Now, I'm sure that Derek Bol does a fine job as a strength and conditioning coach, but even at the lower tiered football 5 programs, they have a strength coach that focuses solely on the basketball team vs. 3 teams during the year. It's also not just weight lifting, it's nutrition, it's sleep and rest management and it's the ability to stay on these guys about what they're putting into their bodies 24/7 that these programs have that others (including Butler), don't.

Besides the fact that just because last year's Valpo team was really good doesn't mean that this year's team will be just as good without Skara, Walker, Carter, Fernandez and Nickerson, it's also about who he's playing against in games when the scouts are there. If Valpo plays Kentucky that's a huge feather in your cap. However, looking at Kenpom (which closely resembles Sagarin's ratings), while Valpo was rated 40th overall, the Horizon League had 1 other top 100 team (Oakland). These are how many top 100 teams the Football 5/Big East have vs. the total number of schools in the conference - Big12 (8/10), ACC (13/15), Big East (8/10), Pac 12 (9/12), Big10 (10/14), SEC (11/14). He simply won't get that kind of competition on a night-in, night-out basis in the Horizon.

I also really find your take that his teammates wouldn't be happy about a guy who is a strong Christian transferring in vs. another religion or no religion at all to be...interesting. 99.9% of the time, his teammates will either not be impacted by or be happy that he is so strong in his faith. If anything that quality would endear him to his new teammates and probably help him bond even quicker with some of them. Also, the majority of top draft prospects are still freshmen, so if he does decide to transfer, he'd have as much bonding time with them as any other member of the team. Plus, to the other guys who have been there for awhile, if he helped them win, they'd get over any personal misgivings that still might remain after they got to know him.

A large part of me hopes he stays, because it's fun to see other programs in Indiana do well, but as a fan who has seen Butler go from the Horizon League to the Big East, the difference in terms of the programs and individual players that you compete against is both small and significant. Small in that in a game or two here and there isn't as big of a deal as fans of those leagues might make it seem, but significant in that going through an entire conference season against those teams and players is brutal comparatively speaking. Sorry for the long post, and hopefully you get some good news here in a day or two.

Well said and written Dawg. I very much respect your point of view. Oh, Derek is specifically focused on just men's basketball. His boss, who overseas all sports strength training is even more impressive.

valpotx · May 23, 2016, 10:19:22 PM

Are you talking about Bob Brooks? He coached our JV baseball team one season when I was playing.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/athletics/staff/2745/bob-brooks/#.V0PHd_krLIU

bbtds · May 24, 2016, 05:41:07 AM

I still believe that Irish Dawg is pushing a lot of Butler BS down our way so that he can feel even more superior about his school doing better than Valpo. So much of that argument is contrived BS! I will never understand why Butler people, like Irish Dawg, feel that Butler is so much more superior than Valpo. There is one coach in the HL that Butler never beat in 4 tries and that was Bryce Drew. Then they quit playing Valpo. Now that is a whole lot of BS!

valpo64 · May 24, 2016, 12:07:15 PM

Save your "kool-aid" for your Butler board.

elephtheria47 · May 24, 2016, 08:06:59 PM

Big day tomorrow. What's the announcement?

A) staying in draft
B) withdrawing from draft, staying at valpo
C) withdrawing from draft, pursue grad transfer

VULB#62 · May 25, 2016, 07:45:48 AM

YEP, TODAY'S THE DAY. IT'S EITHER

OR

agibson · May 25, 2016, 09:25:46 AM

Quote from: VULB#62 on May 25, 2016, 07:45:48 AM
YEP, TODAY'S THE DAY. IT'S EITHER OR

I've lost track. The draft details are clear. Are we equally sure that it's a definitive date for grad transfers?

VULB#62 · May 25, 2016, 09:39:38 AM

My take is that it is a 3 part answer.

DECISION #1: Declares for the draft = end of story.

OR
2a>>>>>>>>Returns to Valpo

DECISION #2: Withdraws from draft = OR
2b >>>>>>>>Asks for Grad Xfer

So we really have to weather 2 decision processes -- the draft, or if he withdraws, stay or leave for P5 greener pastures.

And I'm not sure there is a drop dead date for decision #2b, but I would assume he would have to complete his degree to move on. I imagine that doesn't mean that he can't begin the grad xfer process prior to receiving that degree.

VU2624 · May 25, 2016, 09:55:56 AM

Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 24, 2016, 08:06:59 PMBig day tomorrow. What's the announcement? A) staying in draft B) withdrawing from draft, staying at valpo C) withdrawing from draft, pursue grad transfer

I don't think b or c need to be announced at this time.

VULB#62 · May 25, 2016, 10:03:30 AM

SOURCE: http://www.athleticscholarships.net/ncaa-transfer-exceptions.htm
NCAA Transfer Exceptions and Waivers

The transfer process has a complex mix of rules and regulations that determine when and where athletes can transfer and if and when they can receive a scholarship. If you are being told you will need to sit out, not be able to play right away or not get a scholarship right away, below are some of the exceptions and petitions you can file to get a more favorable outcome.

One-Time Transfer Exception

The one-time transfer exception is the most commonly used exception for transfers from one four-year college to another, especially if the transfer involves two colleges in NCAA Division I or II.

If transferring to a Division I school, the athlete must play a sport other than football, men's or women's basketball, or baseball. The exception is that an athlete can transfers to a Football Championship Subdivision (FCS or I-AA) school and use this exception provided he or she has at least two seasons of competition remaining. In Division II, any sport may use the one-time transfer exception.
The athlete must not have previously transferred from another four-year school.
At the time of the transfer, the athlete would have been academically eligible at the previous school; and
If transferring from an NCAA or NAIA school, the athlete's previous school states in writing that they have no objection to the athlete using the one-time transfer exception. *1
While the one-time transfer exception is the most commonly used, it is technically the last resort. If a student-athlete can find another transfer exception to use, it is generally better since they have fewer requirements and sometime make the transfer not count if the student-athlete needs to transfer again.

Graduate Exception

The graduate exception is a version of the one-time transfer exception. It is for student-athletes who cannot use the normal one-time transfer exception because they play one of the sports that are not permitted to use the exception.

The student-athlete must have graduated with at least a bachelor's degree;
The student-athlete meets the other requirements of the one-time transfer exception;
The student-athlete must have at least one season of competition left; and
The student-athlete's previous school did not renew his or her athletic scholarship or offer an athletic scholarship for the following academic year.
The requirement that the scholarship be cancelled or not renewed is generally not an issue. The scholarship does not need to be cancelled before the transfer or be the reason for the transfer. Because the one-time transfer exception requires you to get a release, what will happen with your scholarship is generally just an administrative detail.

Graduate Transfer Waiver

The graduate transfer waiver is now typically used by athletes who have previous transferred once before and so cannot use the one-time transfer exception (even as a graduate student).

A letter from the previous school saying it does not object to the student-athlete being eligible;

Documentation that the student-athlete has been accepted into a specific graduate degree program;

Documentation about whether that degree program is offered by the previous school;
A student-athlete statement including the reasons for the transfer; and

A statement from the previous institution about the student-athlete's status on the team.

Generally the heart of the waiver is the three middle bullets. The NCAA wants to see that the student-athlete transferred in order to continue his or her academic career by pursuing a graduate degree not offered at the previous school.*2

*1 My Note: Valpo would not stand in his way IMO.
*2 My Note: Alec is enrolled in the Sports Management undergrad program, I believe. I also believe that a graduate degree in that discipline is available at Valpo. But that's easy to get around.

VULB#62 · May 25, 2016, 10:06:53 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on May 25, 2016, 09:55:56 AM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 24, 2016, 08:06:59 PMBig day tomorrow. What's the announcement? A) staying in draft B) withdrawing from draft, staying at valpo C) withdrawing from draft, pursue grad transfer

I don't think b or c need to be announced at this time.

I would agree 2624. If he withdraws, and does nothing more, it's a de facto stay at Valpo decision.