Valpo at the center of a big NYT feature...

[Vale O. Paradise]

...unfortunately, it's not good. The problem--overabundance of recent law grads, not enough new jobs--is not a problem unique to Valpo, but it's still not great to be the case study.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

[VULB#62]

Pretty dismal outlook.  But two things come to mind.  Things like this tend to go in cycles and, knowing what it does now, the University can work at continuing to refine or even replace the current financial model with one that is more pragmatic.

Hoping for the best.

[valpotx]

Why would we want to participate in such a case study?  My assumption is that since Deans and Professors are involved, that the school knowingly went into this process.  It sounds like a complete hit on Valpo's reputation, not just the Law School.  People will read this and think that the overall school is a 'third or fourth tier' school.  I am very embarrassed by this article. 

My wife is an Appellate Attorney in Dallas, and she admits that she doesn't make as much money as she thought that she would.  However, she works for a 6-person firm, and enjoys the flexibility that it allows.  Don't get me wrong, she makes very good money versus your average American, but it does pain her that I make more than her, and a JD is supposed to trump my MBA. 

[agibson]

Why would we want to participate in such a case study?  My assumption is that since Deans and Professors are involved, that the school knowingly went into this process.  It sounds like a complete hit on Valpo's reputation, not just the Law School.  People will read this and think that the overall school is a 'third or fourth tier' school.  I am very embarrassed by this article. 

On balance I thought it was more "the legal education is in a bad place at the moment, it's especially hard on lower tier law schools, and here's an example" rather than "Valpo's a horrible place". They got Bruce saying that if he could go back, he might make admissions decisions a little differently. But, the piece didn't seem unsympathetic to VU, exactly... (Even if their two independent talking heads came across with a fairly negative perception...)

It would, admittedly, have been nice if they had drawn a contrast with the undergraduate/other colleges.

On balance, I agree, not a great piece to have come up when you google "Valparaiso University".

[valpopal]

I agree with the opinions that this is a "a hit piece," and I also question why Valparaiso would cooperate with a NY Times reporter for this. I would not have placed the university in this position. How do you recognize a hit piece? First, the information included is accurate, though the brief quotes chosen for use from longer interviews from the good Valpo folks are all intended to further the negative thesis of the reporter. Second, subjective selective descriptions are used to promote an unpleasant and depressing atmosphere. For example, "If you drove from the eastern edge of Valparaiso's campus early this spring, you would have passed a pawnshop, a discount cigarette outlet and, intriguingly, a sign announcing 'cafe available for rent,' before reaching the heart of the city's downtown, which includes the county courthouse and a handful of law offices." If you're going to list sites while driving through Valpo, why not describe the elegance of the downtown and its many upscale restaurants, microbreweries, or the central park plaza as well? The truth is that this situation is happening at all law schools across the country, and consequently upper-level schools are poaching the best students that once would have gone to lower-level universities. However, allowing Valparaiso to be used as the prominent and named example to represent hundreds of other schools in the same predicament only hurts the university's reputation. I would have told the reporter to find another school to use for his article.

[VULB#62]

But they come in smiling and state their premise that we want to do a story on mid-tier law schools (AND they are the NYT).  Wouldn't you want to grab some NYT exposure? Of course you would. But then about ¾ in you get the feeling "wait these questions are not really positive exposure."  But you rationalize and assume the article will put the university in a positive light in terms of showing how a small university is attempting to deal with changes in the environment that were never anticipated. But then the article is published and it turns into a hit piece. Valpo is the poster child for really screwing up and the rest of the university is dragged down with it. S#%€ happens.  And even the NY Times is not immune to wanting to sell newspapers (whatever they are).

I dont fault VU.

[valpopal]

But they come in smiling and state their premise that we want to do a story on mid-tier law schools (AND they are the NYT).  Wouldn't you want to grab some NYT exposure? Of course you would. But then about ¾ in you get the feeling "wait these questions are not really positive exposure."  But you rationalize and assume the article will put the university in a positive light in terms of showing how a small university is attempting to deal with changes in the environment that were never anticipated. But then the article is published and it turns into a hit piece. Valpo is the poster child for really screwing up and the rest of the university is dragged down with it. S#%€ happens.  And even the NY Times is not immune to wanting to sell newspapers (whatever they are).

I dont fault VU.

Yes, they are the NYT, known for hit jobs. I do fault VU. Look at the terrible result. I wouldn't talk to a NYT reporter, especially knowing the facts of the story and that there could not possibly be a positive outcome. The VU individuals quoted and photographed in the article are university law professors, and these good people are being used to deprecate the university where they work in an article with such horrible publicity that conceivably could assist in the eventual death of the law school. They should not be so naive. By the way, unless I missed it, I don't think I saw Heckler directly quoted in the article (he is indirectly quoted at one point, but it is not clear by whom), and I wonder why. Did he not cooperate?

[valpopal]

Unfortunately, here is an example of the response this article is receiving:
http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/vivisection-of-a-dying-law-school/

[VULB#62]

But they come in smiling and state their premise that we want to do a story on mid-tier law schools (AND they are the NYT).  Wouldn't you want to grab some NYT exposure? Of course you would. But then about ¾ in you get the feeling "wait these questions are not really positive exposure."  But you rationalize and assume the article will put the university in a positive light in terms of showing how a small university is attempting to deal with changes in the environment that were never anticipated. But then the article is published and it turns into a hit piece. Valpo is the poster child for really screwing up and the rest of the university is dragged down with it. S#%€ happens.  And even the NY Times is not immune to wanting to sell newspapers (whatever they are).

I dont fault VU.

Yes, they are the NYT, known for hit jobs. I do fault VU. Look at the terrible result. I wouldn't talk to a NYT reporter, especially knowing the facts of the story and that there could not possibly be a positive outcome. The VU individuals quoted and photographed in the article are university law professors, and these good people are being used to deprecate the university where they work in an article with such horrible publicity that conceivably could assist in the eventual death of the law school. They should not be so naive. By the way, unless I missed it, I don't think I saw Heckler directly quoted in the article (he is indirectly quoted at one point, but it is not clear by whom), and I wonder why. Did he not cooperate?

It was a pure sandbag job. And because the VU people involved were naive, we got hosed. But shoot, who wouldn't have thought this was gonna be a positive piece when it first started out? If I were in their position I would probably have expected some great exposue and went along with the buzterd.

Reminds me of the time I was audited by the IRS.  I kept detailed books. I was proud of the fact that I had all my backup documentation. The guy was so nice. He asked for some stuff.  I gave that to him. And to make my point, I confidently gave him even more. He used that extra stuff (and more) to screw me out of  a $40K penalty. Had I been more experienced in that sort of thing, I would have just divulged the minimum of what he asked for. Expensive lesson.

[a3uge]

I distinctively remember back in 2011, the newly formed marketing team talked about the need for Valpo to scale back on their law school admissions outside of the Midwest due to the declining placement numbers in non-regional areas.

I guess it's hard to turn down free money.

With that said, it's hard to have sympathy for the students who borrow $200,000 and expect to make that up in 5-10 years.

[Vale O. Paradise]

Although I don't like being Example A, much of what the writer has to say about law school's in Valpo's position isn't off base. I think his characterization of Valpo the city is the most off-base thing about the story, but that has little to do with VU. The truth is, Valpo (or any one of the many schools the writer could have chosen to write about) isn't  able to say, "hey, you can't write about us...go away." The real story was with the students. He already found them and interviewed them. Much of the data about law schools in general, and Valpo specifically (LSAT scores, admissions data), is easily found. Valpo basically had the choice to make a few admins and professors available for interviews, or for the story to read "Valpo chose not to respond to our interview requests." The former looks a lot better. Again, I wish it wasn't us, but it's not a hit piece. It's just tough to swallow. Valpo Law isn't portrayed in the light that, say, for-profit colleges are right now. All the people interviewed come off as humane, compassionate, and passionate teachers. They love their students. They are OK giving a chance to someone who doesn't fit the traditional law student mold once in a while. They are honest about the tough times law schools are in. If VU admins and professors had come across as attempting to say everything was OK, the piece could have easily turned into a "hit piece", another example of upper education not admitting to the realities of the upper educational landscape and looking for a profit (again, the Corinthians of the world), or worse, a school with something to hide. But the story is never that. It includes all the ways the school is responding: decreasing size to maintain quality, exploring ways to become more financially feasible, recognizing past mistakes, etc. Also, the story's arc of Valpo Law included really really good times, not just presenting info in an effort to "expose" something about them.

This story was always going to be published with or without input from admins. I'm glad VU chose to be open and to participate. I think the fact that lower-tier law schools are in a rough spot is irrefutable. That applies to us. Unfortunately we landed in a story about it. Looking in the mirror is tough. But the core of who we are and what we stand for, I thought, came through.

[valpopal]

Although I don't like being Example A, much of what the writer has to say about law school's in Valpo's position isn't off base. I think his characterization of Valpo the city is the most off-base thing about the story, but that has little to do with VU. The truth is, Valpo (or any one of the many schools the writer could have chosen to write about) isn't  able to say, "hey, you can't write about us...go away." The real story was with the students. He already found them and interviewed them. Much of the data about law schools in general, and Valpo specifically (LSAT scores, admissions data), is easily found. Valpo basically had the choice to make a few admins and professors available for interviews, or for the story to read "Valpo chose not to respond to our interview requests." The former looks a lot better. Again, I wish it wasn't us, but it's not a hit piece. It's just tough to swallow. Valpo Law isn't portrayed in the light that, say, for-profit colleges are right now. All the people interviewed come off as humane, compassionate, and passionate teachers. They love their students. They are OK giving a chance to someone who doesn't fit the traditional law student mold once in a while. They are honest about the tough times law schools are in. If VU admins and professors had come across as attempting to say everything was OK, the piece could have easily turned into a "hit piece", another example of upper education not admitting to the realities of the upper educational landscape and looking for a profit (again, the Corinthians of the world), or worse, a school with something to hide. But the story is never that. It includes all the ways the school is responding: decreasing size to maintain quality, exploring ways to become more financially feasible, recognizing past mistakes, etc. Also, the story's arc of Valpo Law included really really good times, not just presenting info in an effort to "expose" something about them.

This story was always going to be published with or without input from admins. I'm glad VU chose to be open and to participate. I think the fact that lower-tier law schools are in a rough spot is irrefutable. That applies to us. Unfortunately we landed in a story about it. Looking in the mirror is tough. But the core of who we are and what we stand for, I thought, came through.

You must be considering a different article than I and most other readers are if you believe the following: "Valpo Law isn't portrayed in the light that, say, for-profit colleges are right now. All the people interviewed come off as humane, compassionate, and passionate teachers. They love their students. They are OK giving a chance to someone who doesn't fit the traditional law student mold once in a while. They are honest about the tough times law schools are in."


If you looked at the response to the article by Above the Law, which reflects hundreds of comments I have seen online at the Times and on Twitter, the impression of Valparaiso University and the Law School faculty is just the opposite. The article states about the Times piece: 


"When the article does turn to the school, it lightly exposes how the administration has taken advantage of these people."


Then the responding article focuses on Bruce Berner, someone we all know as supportive of Valparaiso and "beloved" in the Valpo community (as the Times reporter correctly characterizes him):


"Here, we have a guy who was in the room saying the OBVIOUS truth, law schools made a conscious decision to admit less qualified applicants in order to keep the money coming in."


The story would not have been very good if it just focused on students who were unsuccessful because of poor decisions they made. Its impact comes from the damning statements by the Valpo Law School members. If the faculty refused to cooperate, the reporter would have had to go elsewhere or print a lesser story about students who made questionable choices. I have been in the position of being called by a reporter about a Valpo situation, and I refused comment. The story wasn't published.


This story has all the characteristics of "a hit piece" and a stain on the reputation of Valparaiso University, as I would have expected from a Times reporter, and I can't believe the Valpo folks were too naive to realize. It is clear the reporter wanted Valpo to be depicted in a negative fashion and to use it as the recognizable face of questionable ethics at law schools across the country. I wonder again about your conclusion: "I'm glad VU chose to be open and to participate." The generous willingness by good people to participate was abused by the reporter who selectively picked snippets of quotes to forward his thesis. And again, I wonder why Heckler isn't interviewed or directly quoted.

[Vale O. Paradise]

I'm talking about the Times piece on its own face. Another website's reaction to a story or a few Tweets isn't part of the original story. Choosing to admit more, lesser qualified students is something that happened. The writer didn't claim Valpo was looking to profit...they were looking to survive. It was a decision that was portrayed as difficult to make at the time--not one that executives in a backroom laughed about as they counted how much they would profit from. Looking back, some admins said they'd do it differently. Sounds human to me. And they are making adjustments because of it. An internet post, without any original reporting, about a news story, which post somehow concludes that Valpo is evil....well, I'll write that off as kneejerk.

[sfnmman]

Here's another interesting piece about the former Dean of the Valpo law school and his recent endeavors in NC.  Note that this was published back in January, 2015. 

Given the bad NYT press and the underlying problems lower tier schools are facing, sounds like the Valpo law school has a lot of work to do.  Why is the law school so poorly ranked when the university in general has a solid to favorable reputation? 

Check this out:

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2015/01/dean-jay-conison-shills-for-charlotte.html

[vu72]

Here's another interesting piece about the former Dean of the Valpo law school and his recent endeavors in NC.  Note that this was published back in January, 2015. 

Given the bad NYT press and the underlying problems lower tier schools are facing, sounds like the Valpo law school has a lot of work to do.  Why is the law school so poorly ranked when the university in general has a solid to favorable reputation? 

Check this out:

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2015/01/dean-jay-conison-shills-for-charlotte.html

Uh, that is an understatement if I ever heard one.  The piece was indeed a "hit piece" as valpopal mentioned earlier.  Probably written by a person who flunked out and has an agenda.  More really good journalism!  The law school has MANY highly regarded alumni and the faculty has many graduates of elite law schools like NYU, Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Notre Dame and Wisconsin, to name a few.  The idea that Valpo's law school is somehow "second rate" is just silly.  Valpo's law school is facing the same problem as just about all law schools, including Notre Dame. The number of people taking the LSAT has declined 50% since 2009.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/state/Valparaiso-University-offers-buyouts-to-law-school-faculty

[usc4valpo]

The VU Law school should not have been so naive to participate in a study with the NYT. I would bet several other law schools were asked by the NYT to participate in the study and declined.

At this day and age, perhaps logical thought and reasoning can be applied in the sciences or systems design management, which are critical skill needs in this country.

[94Alum]

This is really a shame.  So unfortunate.  Reputation is so important (more so than I think many people realize) and can be seriously damaged very easily and quickly with press like this.  I feel that VU should cut its losses and get rid of the Law School altogether.  The only times I have ever heard Valparaiso University mentioned negatively nationally have always been in relation to the Law School.  Remember the Hollywood film "The Judge" with Robert Downey Jr.?  It's a drain on the reputation of the rest of the school at large.  I'd prefer VU to focus on being a stellar undergraduate university.

[usc4valpo]

Eugene Parker was an alum and did very well and showed grace and integrity in his work.

[usc4valpo]

94Alum - I would not base an article from the NYT as reason to close down the law school.  Reduce it - yes - and Valpo made the right choice on this.

[94Alum]

Well, I'm not saying it just because of one article.  I just think that there is and has been a feeling of "second rate-ness" to the law school as opposed to the first rate undergraduate colleges.  I would just prefer VU to focus on what it does well and continue to nurture the reputable undergraduate colleges without having its much less acclaimed law school dragging its reputation down. 

[78crusader]

The nursing school went through enrollment troubles -- big time -- about 20 or 25 years ago.  It got so bad that there was a note from the Dean of the Nursing School in one of the Valpo Magazine publications asking alums if they knew of anybody who was interested in getting a nursing degree.  Thankfully that situation got turned around.

VU is right to downsize enrollment and try to get better students -- people who can pass the bar.  Lots of schools are facing enrollment problems.  Two years ago the University of Iowa welcomed a first year class of 91 students.  Normally they would have twice that many. 

Law school applications are way, way down because jobs are really scarce.  Firms just aren't hiring and guys just aren't retiring -- yet. Based on 35 years of law practice, I think this situation will change in the next 5-7 years -- there are a LOT of guys who graduated from law school in the mid 70s to early 80s, years when law school enrollments started to climb way up, who will soon be cashing in their chips. 

Paul

[Vinny]

The VU Law school should not have been so naive to participate in a study with the NYT. I would bet several other law schools were asked by the NYT to participate in the study and declined. At this day and age, perhaps logical thought and reasoning can be applied in the sciences or systems design management, which are critical skill needs in this country.

The fact that President Heckler is paraphrased in this piece tells me he was well aware of the potential fallout of this article. Perhaps this provides justification to make (even more) sweeping changes.


But yes overall, it was highly embarrassing for both the law school and the university.

[valpo95]

The NYT article could have been much worse. That it features VU Law as a lower-tier law school is accurate, though it did praise the fact that it historically had a well-respected reputation within the region. Unfortunately, that seems to be changing.

For those who are interested, below is a link to a St. Paul Pioneer Press article about the University of Minnesota Law school, a Top 20 national school.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/11/umn-law-school-losses-expected-to-total-16m-by-2018/

There are several interesting features about that article. One is the steep decline in applicants, especially in the Midwest. At Minnesota, the law school saw 3865 applicants and 260 new students in 2010, and 1984 applicants and 176 new students in 2015. Minnesota has chosen to reduce its admissions to maintain the quality of graduates and its ranking, which seems to be opposite of what Valpo Law did. However, the University of Minnesota has been sending big dollars to the law school to subsidize operating losses of $2.5 - $4.1M per year (an estimated subsidy of $16.1M from 2012-2018), and this at a law school that is among the best in the country and certainly near the top of the Big 10. VU administration chose to not subsidize the law school, and the law school chose to reduce its standards to fill seats.

Another interesting mention is that in the state of Minnesota, Hamline University Law School merged with its local rival William Mitchell College of Law in part because of the same demographic and resource challenges. Hamline is a well-respected private liberal arts university (#9 on USNWR Regional Rankings) that would share similarities with Valpo in many areas. William Mitchell is where former Chief Justice Warren Burger attended law school. Neither one could sustain their enrollment on their own.

[valpotx]

I didn't know that the University of Minnesota had a top 20 reputation for their law school.  I should probably tease my father less, as that is where he received his JD .

[covufan]

Uh oh

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/745652559478566913

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/745652888333017089